Overland catches fire for no reason

[mx5red]

Sorry for necromancing an old thread … but I wired my Badlands 12000 winch with the Warn Power Interrupt kit inline with the relay part connected to my AUX4, and on the battery side is a 500A fuse. Blew that fuse Saturday trying to winch my JTR out of the mud. Suction was insane and my line was bunged which didn’t help. But I could have been pulling more than 500A right?

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I hope they start arguing again

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[ShadowsPapa]

Sorry for necromancing an old thread … but I wired my Badlands 12000 winch with the Warn Power Interrupt kit inline with the relay part connected to my AUX4, and on the battery side is a 500A fuse. Blew that fuse Saturday trying to winch my JTR out of the mud. Suction was insane and my line was bunged which didn’t help. But I could have been pulling more than 500A right?

From what I see on the Warn and others, it's 400-457 amps. I suspect there could be a momentary surge of higher than that.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Sorry for necromancing an old thread … but I wired my Badlands 12000 winch with the Warn Power Interrupt kit inline with the relay part connected to my AUX4, and on the battery side is a 500A fuse. Blew that fuse Saturday trying to winch my JTR out of the mud. Suction was insane and my line was bunged which didn’t help. But I could have been pulling more than 500A right?

To blow a 500 Amp fuse, you usually have to be pulling more than it is rated for long enough for it to melt. You would need to check the specs for the fuse and see what the time and thermal variables are that cause it to blow. It could have pulled just under or at capacity long enough that it overheated and failed. The battery is capable of delivering more than 500 amps. Check the manual for your specific winch and see what its maximum draw is. There should be a chart showing draw for the amount of load on the motor.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

To blow a 500 Amp fuse, you usually have to be pulling more than it is rated for long enough for it to melt. You would need to check the specs for the fuse and see what the time and thermal variables are that cause it to blow. It could have pulled just under or at capacity long enough that it overheated and failed. The battery is capable of delivering more than 500 amps. Check the manual for your specific winch and see what its maximum draw is. There should be a chart showing draw for the amount of load on the motor.

Yes good points. I have the warn solenoid kit and there's no fuse........ None I've seen in the box. It would be a big fuse.

Likely would have exceeded winch duty cycle at max pull, also. Winches do have a duty cycle but most just pull until it's out.

 

[hjdca]

Sorry for necromancing an old thread … but I wired my Badlands 12000 winch with the Warn Power Interrupt kit inline with the relay part connected to my AUX4, and on the battery side is a 500A fuse. Blew that fuse Saturday trying to winch my JTR out of the mud. Suction was insane and my line was bunged which didn’t help. But I could have been pulling more than 500A right?

That does not sound right. You should only use the aux switches to turn on and turn off the warn Solinoid. For that you can use the 10 amp switches. Once the solinoid is turned on, the full juice of the battery should flow to the winch. The process should be, the switch is off, so, the power is not routed past the Solinoid. Then, you push the aux switch, the power is now routed to the winch through your huge cables. Then, use your controller to power your winch. Here are some pics.

Huge battery cables are routed directly to the battery. The positive power to the winch is interrupted by the warn solinoid until required. When required, the aux switch connection at the top of the solinoid (thin wires) with the ground turns on the solinoid. HIgh power is not routed through the aux switches, but, rather directly through the huge positive and negative battery cables. This is the proper way to get full power to your winch.

The two thin wires on top are for the "10 amp aux switch" that turns "on" the solinoid and the other one is the ground for the switch. The huge ground cable is routed directly to the battery.

 

[doc-ketamine]

That does not sound right. You should only use the aux switches to turn on and turn off the warn Solinoid.

I’m familiar with how solenoids work, that’s why I used one. My question is about amp draw. Thanks though!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That does not sound right. You should only use the aux switches to turn on and turn off the warn Solinoid. For that you can use the 10 amp switches. Once the solinoid is turned on, the full juice of the battery should flow to the winch. The process should be, the switch is off, so, the power is not routed past the Solinoid. Then, you push the aux switch, the power is now routed to the winch through your huge cables. Then, use your controller to power your winch. Here are some pics.

Huge battery cables are routed directly to the battery. The positive power to the winch is interrupted by the warn solinoid until required. When required, the aux switch connection at the top of the solinoid (thin wires) with the ground turns on the solinoid. HIgh power is not routed through the aux switches.

The two thin wires on top are for the "10 amp aux switch" that turns "on" the solinoid and the other one is the ground for the switch. The huge ground cable is routed directly to the battery.

I'm guessing he has it wired that way - otherwise he'd have fried the aux switch or blown the fuse for said aux switch.

My wonderings are - what's the 500 amp fuse he's talking about, where is it, where'd it come from.
It sounds to me like he's got the battery + lead that goes to the solenoid fused at the battery.

Yours is wired much like mine was when I ran the manual switch. + directly to crank battery + and (-) directly to the top of the crank battery (-) on top of the IBS.

When my new JT arrives, I will replace the manual cut-out with a Warn solenoid and use one of the aux switches. I've found JSCAN will bump the idle up to whatever I want it to so I'll be able to hit the aux switch, bump up the idle, and use the winch.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m familiar with how solenoids work, that’s why I used one. My question is about amp draw. Thanks though!

Amp draw will vary a bit with winches, depending on the motor, how it's wired, efficiency and so on.
Even with a single winch, the draw will vary with the load - and the book should show that as well as duty cycle. So many seconds or minutes running, then rest for xx minutes, and so on.
The draw will vary with load and the number of wraps on the spool.

My book is buried in a box of papers in the garage - or I'd look at the chart for my Badlands Apex 1200 winch, but what I find for Warn and 2 or 3 other winch brands is anywhere from 400 to 457 amps (for the Warn)

If a winch is 450 amps full load, it's possible to pull more than that momentarily. There's usually a couple of ratings for electric motors - one while running, and another for momentary draw.

I could see circumstances where a 450 amp draw of a winch becomes more than that for a second. Not enough to fry wires, but enough to pop a fuse or breaker (that's already pretty warm.)

I think it was Mr_Bill who already said something similar to that...... I read his post while trying to wake up earlier today........ he posted stuff I forgot to put in before I hit the "post" button last night.........

If you don't have your book or can't find it - I can dig mine out as there should be a chart.

However - I am curious - what 500 amps fuse? Where'd it come from?
Is there a fuse in these I'm not aware of - or did you install the fuse? I have the warn solenoid kit sitting waiting for my new truck to arrive but there's no fuse in there. I'm curious as heck LOL


(+) feed to big solenoid post goes right to the top of the + post on the crank battery - but it sounds like you have a fuse there?

(-) feed to winch up front goes to the top of the IBS like so -

 

[doc-ketamine]

My setup:

This includes the Warn interrupt kit wired to the AUX4, power goes in to there from the 500A fuse, which gets power directly from the battery. Looks backwards but that’s due to wire length (loops under the fuse block).

Got the fuses of Amazon. First link is the block (and the original fuse), second is the spare fuse set.

500 AMP ANL Fuse Holder fuseholder INLINE Block BATTERY INSTALL KIT 0 GAUGE 2 FT https://a.co/d/cKSjHIl
InstallBay Anl 500 Amp Fuse -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GBI56XQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

“Bad fuse” did cross my mind …

 

[hjdca]

My setup:

This includes the Warn interrupt kit wired to the AUX4, power goes in to there from the 500A fuse, which gets power directly from the battery. Looks backwards but that’s due to wire length (loops under the fuse block).

Got the fuses of Amazon. First link is the block (and the original fuse), second is the spare fuse set.

500 AMP ANL Fuse Holder fuseholder INLINE Block BATTERY INSTALL KIT 0 GAUGE 2 FT https://a.co/d/cKSjHIl
InstallBay Anl 500 Amp Fuse -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GBI56XQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

“Bad fuse” did cross my mind …

Ok, I get it now. Yes, everything looks right... My guess is that the winch was overloaded by the suction in the mud, maybe, practically stopped, and pulled more than 500A... or maybe the fuse was a little light and tripped early.
I think you should test the winch. Change the fuse, and get the Gladiator on a steep hill on asphault, and run the winch for a while to see what happens. You can even use your brakes to replicate a hard pull. The question is - does this winch always pull more that 500A when it is stressed ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My setup:

This includes the Warn interrupt kit wired to the AUX4, power goes in to there from the 500A fuse, which gets power directly from the battery. Looks backwards but that’s due to wire length (loops under the fuse block).

Got the fuses of Amazon. First link is the block (and the original fuse), second is the spare fuse set.

500 AMP ANL Fuse Holder fuseholder INLINE Block BATTERY INSTALL KIT 0 GAUGE 2 FT https://a.co/d/cKSjHIl
InstallBay Anl 500 Amp Fuse -... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GBI56XQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

“Bad fuse” did cross my mind …

A picture and that description really brings it all home. Nice setup.

Fuses protect wiring. That's their only function. They are not to protect the device or anything BUT the wiring.
So, that being said - take the gauge wire you have, the length of the wire (because the amperage a wire can handle depends on not just the wire gauge, but the length of the wire - total length)
From there you can figure how much your wiring can handle. If the wiring can handle 600 amps you could go higher if you wish with the fuse - but................ be careful.
It's possible you want to keep a good 500 in there even if your wiring could handle say 600-650 amps as sort of a big buffer - and to blow if the winch is pulling too much to keep from frying it.

But do look in your winch book..........

a good 500 should have not blown, but I wasn't there for your rescue or to witness the duty cycle, how it was being used, just how things went, so I have to add that disclaimer.

 

[doc-ketamine]

I appreciate the responses from everyone. I will test out the winch under load - I like the idea of pulling myself up a hill to see how much draw I have.

Thanks!

 

[hjdca]

I appreciate the responses from everyone. I will test out the winch under load - I like the idea of pulling myself up a hill to see how much draw I have.

Thanks!

I just looked at the Warn website... Many of their new winches are rated at approx. 480 amp draw at full load... but, I looked at some of their older winches, like the M8274 and it pulls over 600 amps at full load... I also saw a comment somewhere "regarding winches", and the comment says that many times the winches pull more than their rated draw at max loads... , so, a maybe a 480 rated amp can easily trip a 500 amp fuse ?
So, it seems that your winch maybe operating properly and maybe you just need a 600 amp or so fuse...

 

[BajaTJ]

This is educational. I’ve always just hooked up straight to the starter battery. Guess I have some reading and spending to do before I reinstall the winch.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is educational. I’ve always just hooked up straight to the starter battery. Guess I have some reading and spending to do before I reinstall the winch.

No reason not to as long as you use a cut-off of some sort - a manual switch, a solenoid, or some other means and don't have full battery power out to the bumper.

As far as fuses - that's optional as long as you have said cutoff and have wiring that can support the draw that may come from a winch.
People have used winches for years with no fuse.
Not implying or suggesting it's not a good idea - it actually is a good idea, but if the wiring is large enough to handle whatever the battery may kick out, AND you have a switch to cut power to the winch when it's not in use...... it's not a must.

I just looked at the Warn website... Many of their new winches are rated at approx. 480 amp draw at full load...

That's even more than the Warn info I ran into....... that's awfully close to the 500 amp fuse limit, IMO.

OK, the poster who revived this thread says:
he has the BADLANDS (I assume he's go the APEX) 1200.
The Badlands (if Apex) 1200 has these specs for draw -

So if the line is run out and the pull is a full pull at 12000 pounds, his winch should draw 448 amps.

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