Play In Steering

[ShadowsPapa]

"Play in steering wheel" implies that you can turn the wheel an unreasonable amount back and forth without it putting any pressure on the wheels. I never had one bit of that. Mine is a Rubicon and we would have mostly the same exact parts. the shocks are different. This type of play was common with the first year of manufacturing where they had an issue with the steering box. This should not be the case any more with the newer steering box. there is a massive thread here just about this one issue, and you can see photos of the new black glossy steering box.

Ah, but mine has a SECOND new steering gear because the first replacement was ok at first, then a few months later was actually WORSE than my aluminum housed steering gear ever was. The steel housed gear made it WORSE.
So they replaced the replacement. It's better. I feel it has loosened up a bit since it was replaced but there's no real play and I can keep a straight line without trouble with this one.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Next dealer! Get that rig on a alignment rack and get some data.
Actual numbers vs factory recommended.

You do know there's really no "alignment" to these other than toe - unless you replace parts.
You can't set camber at all without 3rd party ball joints, you can't set caster without different lower control arms, etc. It's all welded in place.
If it's in specs no dealer is going to replace parts - you are on your own.

 

[BluRubY]

I apologize for my delay here, BluRubY; but wanted to see if you still needed assistance with your steering concern. If so, please send us a private message!

Kate
Jeep Cares

I do but I have not taken it into the dealer for this issue.

Thanks,

 

[SC Doberman]

The second dealer I went to with my issue basically said it’s an is what it is issue. Nice…….

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The second dealer I went to with my issue basically said it’s an is what it is issue. Nice…….

That's frustrating as hell.
The service writer I was working with at a local dealership flat out told me "Gladiator shouldn't do that". He didn't even try to suggest there was no problem. It was a quick they shouldn't do that.

I guess it's like any chain - the name on the door saying Jeep doesn't mean the people are the same as those at the next Jeep dealer shop. Just because one restaurant with a given name is great doesn't mean you'll get the same great meal at the next one you visit in another state.
It's the people, it's the management.

 

[Trickster]

You do know there's really no "alignment" to these other than toe - unless you replace parts.
You can't set camber at all without 3rd party ball joints, you can't set caster without different lower control arms, etc. It's all welded in place.
If it's in specs no dealer is going to replace parts - you are on your own.

Exactly, check the toe on a rack or do it yourself with a tape measure, which can be done with the proper measuring device.

 

[Gren71]

The second dealer I went to with my issue basically said it’s an is what it is issue. Nice…….

I didn’t read through the whole thread so sorry if I repeat some things.

If you’ve already done the new steering box, or already have it, adding castor would help. The Mopar performance lower control arms and/or the geometry correction brackets will work wonders for that.

Steering stabilizer will also help.

But I was having the exact same issue as you and despite having JUST gotten an alignment from the dealer… I redid my own toe and found that it was not correct. I did it my self and set it to within 1/16 and now it’s way better!

after the correction brackets, and resetting my own toe, the truck drives infinitely better. I had a 3 Hour drive today pulling my camper in High winds and even then I wasn’t being pushed all over the road like I was before I reset the toe! It was such a pleasant experience being able to pull my camper while steering with one hand again.

 

[JeepCares]

I do but I have not taken it into the dealer for this issue.

Thanks,

Thanks for the update. If you decide to visit at any time, please feel free to contact us.

Kate
Jeep Cares

 

[4x4Therror]

I had the same problem with "wander and loose steering." Then taking a trip to the MTNs with with wife and got the "death wobble" when turning. Ended up replacing steering stabilizer with the Falcon 2.2, and the difference is night and day! No more wander, wobble, or loose steering (depending on what setting you have it on). When we removed the stock stabilizer my wife was able to manipulate it with minimal effort.

 

[Radio Guy]

Do you have stock size wheels/tires? As mentioned before a steering stabilizer is intended to dampen the steering from input from the road pushing the wheels around, its not part of a normal steering system design. I believe the steering stabilizer is masking other problems in your case which should be found and fixed separately. With stock wheels and tires you should be able to remove the steering stabilizer with no effect on the highway except for less friction in the steering. If you have oversize wheels/tires it will then help dampen oscillations in the steering due to the larger mass of the tires and wheels.

I had the same problem with "wander and loose steering." Then taking a trip to the MTNs with with wife and got the "death wobble" when turning. Ended up replacing steering stabilizer with the Falcon 2.2, and the difference is night and day! No more wander, wobble, or loose steering (depending on what setting you have it on). When we removed the stock stabilizer my wife was able to manipulate it with minimal effort.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Again, from engineers, design experts, racers, etc. -
A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs. Rather than redesign the entire front-end geometry, AMC found it less expensive to add the damper.

On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour. On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.

Jeeps and other vehicles experienced shimmy way before the 1960s, and before the advent of lifts and larger tires. Worn components are just as much at fault as jury-rigged suspensions.

And this Jeep suspension engineer had some unkind things to say about some people - I didn't past that part here -


These parts are sized in compression strength and torsional strength for the original maximum size tires and no larger. In stock form, flexing out of plane for these pieces is minimized.

Once you change to a larger overall diameter tire, you do two things - both bad. You increase the rotating mass, increasing the gyroscopic effect of the tire on handling; and you change the theoretical length of the arm resisting the toe change from ground induced inputs.

This is the cause of the steering induced effects. Other issues arise from the changes in the geometry when a panhard rod is added to the system, which causes an over-constraint of the suspension geometry (which is why the proper name of the Jeep "Quadracoil" suspension is "5 link, over constrained, link-coil" suspension.)

In a properly designed XJ suspension, the motion of the draglink (of the Haltenberger type) and the panhard rod is supposed to be a parallelogram...but in stock form, it is not, so raising the vehicle even 1 inch worsens the "fight" between the track bar (panhard rod) and the draglink, causing the tires to steer instead of the driver.

In stock form, these effects are minimized. Lift it and you will have a problem, the only change is when and under what conditions.

And some other comments I found -


Most shimmys come in certain speed ranges, and some are severe enough to require coming to a complete stop. They can be scary to the first timer who is not expecting such violent behavior after hitting a pot hole or railroad track, or just hitting a certain speed.

These shimmies have little to do with design flaws, until design parameters are tampered with, or damaged. It's been around since at least the 1950s, and is not limited to Jeeps.

"Do not mistake an unbalanced tire or bump steer for death wobble. A steering stabilizer may help dampen the effects of an unbalanced tire or bump steer but does nothing to fix those conditions. With 'death wobble,' it's like the vehicle is hooked up to a paint-can shaker. If it ever happens to you, you will know it. ... aftermarket products such as suspension lifts are designed to flex at slow speeds off road. This is not the same as engineering a suspension to function properly on road."

 

[tysongladiator]

I wish that I would have seen this post earlier. I have a suggestion that might be able to help a few of you out. If it doesn't solve your issue, it still would benefit you to check it out. As a matter of fact, check everything out. May help with other suspension/steering related issues as well.

Check out my youtube video on the issue:

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wish that I would have seen this post earlier. I have a suggestion that might be able to help a few of you out. If it doesn't solve your issue, it still would benefit you to check it out. As a matter of fact, check everything out. May help with other suspension/steering related issues as well.

Check out my youtube video on the issue:

You aren't the only person to have found they re-used the old nut, and didn't have it torqued properly (or some other combination of events that lead to it being loose)
We've encouraged everyone who has the loose steering with the NEW replacement steering gear to check torque. That includes, and especially the pitman nut and the bolts that secure the gear housing to the frame.
Check track bar, pitman, gear housing to frame, all of it.
I'd prefer a NEW pitman nut personally.

In my case, they actually replaced the steering gear - again, because mine loosened up badly to where it was looser than the first original steering gear. No hesitation, no balking, no excuses "we need to replace that steering gear" and the paperwork I got back said "internal flaw" on it.

I guess the moral of the story is - leave no stone unturned, check it all. Jeep Gladiators are not supposed to steer that way (those are the words of my service writer)

Oh, and nice job showing novices the what and where to check. Not everyone is a mechanic or tech.

 

[tysongladiator]

You aren't the only person to have found they re-used the old nut, and didn't have it torqued properly (or some other combination of events that lead to it being loose)
We've encouraged everyone who has the loose steering with the NEW replacement steering gear to check torque. That includes, and especially the pitman nut and the bolts that secure the gear housing to the frame.
Check track bar, pitman, gear housing to frame, all of it.
I'd prefer a NEW pitman nut personally.

In my case, they actually replaced the steering gear - again, because mine loosened up badly to where it was looser than the first original steering gear. No hesitation, no balking, no excuses "we need to replace that steering gear" and the paperwork I got back said "internal flaw" on it.

I guess the moral of the story is - leave no stone unturned, check it all. Jeep Gladiators are not supposed to steer that way (those are the words of my service writer)

Oh, and nice job showing novices the what and where to check. Not everyone is a mechanic or tech.

Exactly! I constantly remind everyone to check everything. And apparently the dealer didn't know that nut is supposed to have loctite on it. I said something to them and they acted like they knew to which I was like, ok but you didn't put any on there. And I've had friends with loose balljoints as well.

I agree! Leave no stone unturned!

 

[notoriousms33]

Here’s the play. I was stopped when I took this but it’s the same when I’m driving. That much play and no wheel movement

Did you figure it out?

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