Power steering quit and then started working again a couple of miles later

[Raven65]

'22 Sport S - Stock except for Rubicon wheels/tires... roughly 9k miles on it. Near the end of my commute to work this morning (sunny in the mid-30's)... which is about 45 minutes long... the last leg of which is about 8 miles of interstate... I took the off-ramp near my office and just after merging onto the surface street, I noticed that I no longer had power steering. The EPS pump had just quit with no codes/warning messages. Two miles later, I slowed way down and was preparing to make the right turn into my office, and just as I started putting pressure on the wheel to start my turn, *bam* the pump fired back up and power steering was restored like nothing had happened. Still no codes/warnings. WTaF?!?!? If that had happened right before a big curve/turn, I would have been screwed! I've never been a fan of EPS - and this is why. Electronics can (and often DO) fail without warning - often intermittently. I just read the other day where there is a new Lexus coming out this year that has steer by wire... with NO direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels. This seems like a very bad idea. What happens when (not if) THAT system glitches?!? Hopefully they have built some redundancy into that system or its going to get people hurt/killed as those cars age and the electronics start getting flakey.

But I digress... back to my problem:

I just searched the forum and found were this has happened to others - usually resulting in the electric steering pump being replaced, but I did see where one person found that there was air in his system - and bleeding that out seemed to have solved his problem. I guess that could be worth investigating, but it sure seems like I would have had problems long before now (9k miles later). Also, the posts I found were all pretty old... nothing recent. Just wondering if anyone has had this issue recently - and what your resolution was.

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[Lost1wing]

I can't see it having zero faults. Unless the relay was at fault. Maybe not displayed but did you check with a scanner?

 

[Raven65]

I can't see it having zero faults. Unless the relay was at fault. Maybe not displayed but did you check with a scanner?

No, I'm at work now, so haven't had time to plug my scanner into it... but I'd think if a code for something that important had been thrown, I would have gotten a warning on the instrument panel. Maybe not?

Also posted this in a FB group and a couple of people there have chimed in to say it's the ground for the electric power steering pump. Not sure where that is - or if it's something I can (or should) fool with - or if I should just take it to the dealership.

 

[Noxian]

I had the same thing happen to mine a few times over the last couple months, I scanned for codes nothing, no lights, no errors.

Took it into the dealer 2 weeks ago, and they couldn't find anything wrong.

I did have the Gateway Module Bypass cable and OBD2 adapter connected when it happened which I have since disconnected not sure if that caused the problems

 

[Lost1wing]

G908a I think. Don't know if you can see it or not.

 

[Lost1wing]

G908a I think. Don't know if you can see it or not.

I looks like the harness goes forward and up towards the fender, behind the right headlight assy.

 

[Lost1wing]

I had the same thing happen to mine a few times over the last couple months, I scanned for codes nothing, no lights, no errors.

Took it into the dealer 2 weeks ago, and they couldn't find anything wrong.

I did have the Gateway Module Bypass cable and OBD2 adapter connected when it happened which I have since disconnected not sure if that caused the problems

The can bus is on connector 2 along with power from the relay.

 

[dcmdon]

I had this happen and reported it on this forum in another thread.

In short, it happened a few times and was triggered by me flooring the throttle to pass someone at about 50 mph.

Every time it happened it was cold out. I remember about 20 deg.
Every time the power steering returned as I slowed through 30 mph.

When it did happen, I could trigger the failure repeatedly and predictably and it would predictably fix itself as I slowed through 30 mph.

When I restarted the truck it fixed itself.

No codes.

I got my 2022 Mojave in Jan 2022. This happened in Feb and March 2022.

I've now got 22,000 miles on it and it hasn't happened since.

Good luck.

 

[Raven65]

I had this happen and reported it on this forum in another thread.

In short, it happened a few times and was triggered by me flooring the throttle to pass someone at about 50 mph.

Every time it happened it was cold out. I remember about 20 deg.
Every time the power steering returned as I slowed through 30 mph.

When it did happen, I could trigger the failure repeatedly and predictably and it would predictably fix itself as I slowed through 30 mph.

When I restarted the truck it fixed itself.

No codes.

I got my 2022 Mojave in Jan 2022. This happened in Feb and March 2022.

I've now got 22,000 miles on it and it hasn't happened since.

Good luck.

So, the problem just… went away for you - even when doing the same procedure that triggered it before in the same weather conditions? …or did you do something to fix it?

 

[Noxian]

I had this happen and reported it on this forum in another thread.

In short, it happened a few times and was triggered by me flooring the throttle to pass someone at about 50 mph.

Every time it happened it was cold out. I remember about 20 deg.
Every time the power steering returned as I slowed through 30 mph.

When it did happen, I could trigger the failure repeatedly and predictably and it would predictably fix itself as I slowed through 30 mph.

When I restarted the truck it fixed itself.

No codes.

I got my 2022 Mojave in Jan 2022. This happened in Feb and March 2022.

I've now got 22,000 miles on it and it hasn't happened since.

Good luck.

Strange, my symptoms were/are almost exactly the same.

 

[dcmdon]

So, the problem just… went away for you - even when doing the same procedure that triggered it before in the same weather conditions? …or did you do something to fix it?

After happening on a couple of drives, with me recreating it multiple times each drive, it stopped happening and has not returned in 20k miles.

I just found my original post. here it is, with a bit more detail.


So today I had an interesting thing happen.

I was driving back from the ski area to my house in NH. It was 10 deg out. The truck was warmed up and I was following a car going 30 in a 50 zone.

So I stomped on the gas and passed it.

As soon as the transmission kicked down I lost my power steering. No big deal I'm going 50 mph and I"m using "Armstrong" steering. I'm annoyed but not worried.

After 5 minutes I put my signal on and begin to pull over thinking I'll restart the truck and "reboot" it and hopefully get my PS back.

As I decelerate through 30 mph the PS comes back. Hmm. I step gently on the gas and accelerate away.

At about 40 mph I decide to see if I can consistently reproduce the problem. So I stomp on the gas, the transmission kicks down and I lose my power steering again.

This time I decelerate slowly, trying to find when it kicks beck in. At precisely 30 mph the PS came back.

Now I'm wondering if its the speed or the kick down that it is causing it. So I gradually accelerate to 70 mph, faster than I've gone so far and no problem. I slow back down to 50 and floor it and the PS fails again.

So now I know that flooring it causes the problem. I wanted to try one more thing and put it into manual 3rd gear at 6000 rpm. I floored it (with no kick down) and the PS functioned fine. Then I put it in D and it shifted to 7th gear. When I floored it again it kicked down and the PS failed. I gradually slowed and it came back at 30 mph.

Hmm. So now I pretty much know that flooring it with it kicking down causes the PS to turn off and slowing to 30 mph brings it back.

I then pulled over to the side of the road and shut the truck off for 30 sec and restarted it. I tried to reproduce the problem and could not.

Thoughts?

Don

 

[dcmdon]

This is a suggestion from ShadowPapa. Remember that there are things in the logs that may not trigger a DTC


I'd hook something up to it - perhaps tazer, jscan, AlfaOBD, whatever, and take it for a drive and force the issue and look at logs. There are TSBs out there about lost communication with the steering - remember, it's EHPS - the pump is electric, it's controlled based on current conditions, likely load, speed and so on. The TSBs indicate there's a code that shows up with there's "lost communication".
A bad ground alone should show up with severe bumps, engine movement due to torque, etc. ...but.......... as I've seen doing auto-electric over the decades, never say never when it comes to some of these things. Since the are electrical components all over these things, everywhere you look, grounds are everywhere and critical. The engine itself must be grounded extremely well because the alternator is attached to the engine and you can have 200 amps from that alternator - the positive output is taken care of via large enough cables but what about having to ground that much current out of the alternator?
How is the PS pump grounded?

Still, I'd connect something to it, and see what's coming up when it happens as far as any codes and so on. Transient issues don't always request MIL be set but should still show up in the system.

 

[Raven65]

Still, I'd connect something to it, and see what's coming up when it happens as far as any codes and so on. Transient issues don't always request MIL be set but should still show up in the system.

Thanks for all of that and your previous reply. Very interesting… especially that it’s just gone away for the past 20k miles. Hopefully it stays away. You know… I’m trying to remember if I kicked mine to accelerate after exiting the off-ramp yesterday. It’s very possible…. and I wouldn’t have slowed back down below 30 mph until I was about to make the right turn into my office. I’m going to see if I can recreate it this morning - although it’s about 10* warmer this morning - if that matters. I do have JScan and an ODBC dongle for it… got it to correct my speedo for the slightly larger Rubicon wheels/tires Input on… just haven’t used it yet. I’ll take a look and see if there’s anything interesting in the logs.

[EDIT] Was unable to recreate this morning. Tried several times. Hopefully it was just a fluke and never happens again. If it does, I'm sure it'll be immediately after the warranty expires. LOL!

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I just searched the forum and found were this has happened to others - usually resulting in the electric steering pump being replaced, but I did see where one person found that there was air in his system - and bleeding that out seemed to have solved his problem.

I’m that guy! Bleeding the air lock out didn’t help on the first two (replaced) pumps. They still fried and got replaced.

After last summer heading to Vancouver from Calgary and having my PS quit on my trip (over 1000kms strong arm steering), the pump replaced and I jacked up the front and tested the system, it was also down 1/2 quart as the air burped out. These techs don’t get it nor do they have the time to steer full left and right through 60+ cycles. But that’s what it takes to get the air out.

The pump still works!!

 

[Raven65]

I’m that guy! Bleeding the air lock out didn’t help on the first two (replaced) pumps. They still fried and got replaced.

After last summer heading to Vancouver from Calgary and having my PS quit on my trip (over 1000kms strong arm steering), the pump replaced and I jacked up the front and tested the system, it was also down 1/2 quart as the air burped out. These techs don’t get it nor do they have the time to steer full left and right through 60+ cycles. But that’s what it takes to get the air out.

The pump still works!!

Cool... glad you saw this post! So... is it your theory that the pumps start failing intermittently because they are overheating due to air in the system?

So... in order to get the air completely out, you have to jack up the front end and work the steering through 60-ish cycles lock-to-lock with the engine NOT running, correct?

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