Questions for the gurus

[TheNewWampsCat]

That’s great news! Heck it’s going to take me that long to decide what to do.

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[88mmm]

And the window stickers list all standard stuff, and then "unless replaced by..........." as a disclaimer. So the left could show the same springs, brakes, whatever, but then show another part or PACKAGE that replaces those. One should never go by the window sticker on individual parts because part of a package could replace that part in the left "standard" column.

The max tow package is listed on the right and there is no mention of suspension in max tow package and there never has been. Untill I see proof I dont believe the suspension is different.

 

[88mmm]

They may be Dana 44 - but there are different axle diameters as well as axle tube wall thickness in the beefier models over, say, stock Sport or Overland.
On the other hand, if I have trouble with pulling power, it's good to know I can easily find another set of gears for even my lowly little Overland to move the power band more for pulling.

This is incorrect again. The sport axels are the same as the overland. The overland is just a better optioned sport.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The max tow package is listed on the right and there is no mention of suspension in max tow package and there never has been. Untill I see proof I dont believe the suspension is different.

Seriously? You believe a window sticker instead of part numbers?
Take a look around the forum - suspension is springs among other things. I posted the numbers for the springs. There are multiple photos people have posted showing the DIFFERENT part numbers.

The springs are absolutely very different - even the literature says they are progressive springs. There used to be a review on youtube where a fellow has a JT on the lift and talks about the progressive springs with max tow.
Honestly if any max tow Sport S had my springs, they'd be dragging the ground with their bumper. These Overland springs simply will not support the ability of max tow.
The part numbers I posted are not proof?
Where do you think they came from? I made 'em up?
I grabbed them from the various pictures and posts around here - showing the differences.
You will never ever see a "package" broken down into component parts on a window sticker - just ain't gonna happen. Max tow is sold as a package so they don't break out the part differences.
I did a search and found another thread that shows the springs and part numbers - do a search, you'll find a lot about this.

Please explain exactly how they get the Sport S with max tow to take 1600 pounds more towing and several hundred pounds more payload -which is supported on...................the springs - if the springs are identical?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is incorrect again. The sport axels are the same as the overland. The overland is just a better optioned sport.

Where the heck are you getting that BS??? I can find you loads of posts and sites that show the differences.
Maybe the BASIC SPORT without the max tow - but the max tow has very different axles (it's spelled axle in the states - Axel is a name)
If you are talking BASIC sport, not Sport S w/max tow, you are closer.

Max tow and Rubicon ARE equipped with different axles than Overland - period. Max tow and Rubicon differentials are 1.5" wider because of the longer axles.
Rubicon are NOT the same axles as the Sport or Overland .

I was incorrect about the diameter and tubing - that's heavier for all JTs than prior Jeeps, but the axle assemblies are "wide track" for Rubicon and max tow, 1.5" wider.

Jeep says - The standard heavy-duty Dana® 44 front and rear solid axles on the Gladiator have extra-thick tubes and forgings for exceptional strength, rigidity and durability.

So compared to other prior Jeep models with the Dana 44 - the Gladiator has a heavy-duty axle assembly.
Sport S max tow and Rubicon have wider axles, so the axle shafts and tubes are longer.
Overland and base sport have the narrow axle assembly.

 

[88mmm]

Where the heck are you getting that BS??? I can find you loads of posts and sites that show the differences.
Maybe the BASIC SPORT without the max tow - but the max tow has very different axles (it's spelled axle in the states - Axel is a name)
If you are talking BASIC sport, not Sport S w/max tow, you are closer.

Max tow and Rubicon ARE equipped with different axles than Overland - period. Max tow and Rubicon differentials are 1.5" wider because of the longer axles.
Rubicon are NOT the same axles as the Sport or Overland .

I was incorrect about the diameter and tubing - that's heavier for all JTs than prior Jeeps, but the axle assemblies are "wide track" for Rubicon and max tow, 1.5" wider.

Jeep says - The standard heavy-duty Dana® 44 front and rear solid axles on the Gladiator have extra-thick tubes and forgings for exceptional strength, rigidity and durability.

So compared to other prior Jeep models with the Dana 44 - the Gladiator has a heavy-duty axle assembly.
Sport S max tow and Rubicon have wider axles, so the axle shafts and tubes are longer.
Overland and base sport have the narrow axle assembly.

Exactly they are wider that's it. They are not beefier as you had said. The sport and sport s without max tow are exactly the same as the overland.

 

[88mmm]

Seriously? You believe a window sticker instead of part numbers?
Take a look around the forum - suspension is springs among other things. I posted the numbers for the springs. There are multiple photos people have posted showing the DIFFERENT part numbers.

The springs are absolutely very different - even the literature says they are progressive springs. There used to be a review on youtube where a fellow has a JT on the lift and talks about the progressive springs with max tow.
Honestly if any max tow Sport S had my springs, they'd be dragging the ground with their bumper. These Overland springs simply will not support the ability of max tow.
The part numbers I posted are not proof?
Where do you think they came from? I made 'em up?
I grabbed them from the various pictures and posts around here - showing the differences.
You will never ever see a "package" broken down into component parts on a window sticker - just ain't gonna happen. Max tow is sold as a package so they don't break out the part differences.
I did a search and found another thread that shows the springs and part numbers - do a search, you'll find a lot about this.

Please explain exactly how they get the Sport S with max tow to take 1600 pounds more towing and several hundred pounds more payload -which is supported on...................the springs - if the springs are identical?

Show me proof. I've seen an overland and sport s on a lift and they have the same springs. There are labels with the spring code and they match. Find me a max tow on a lot with a payload anywhere near 1550 lbs. They dont exists.

 

[Southbayglad]

The max tow package is listed on the right and there is no mention of suspension in max tow package and there never has been. Untill I see proof I dont believe the suspension is different.

It is 100% different. This has been discussed and proven exhaustively in the forum. The difference in part numbers have been photographed and discussed. The max tow rear springs have a different part number and an extra coil. This has also been photographed. Ive got a set of rear springs from a max tow in my garage if you want me to send you a pic. Its pointless to argue this fact, and one has to ponder why one would.

 

[PyrPatriot]

It is 100% different. This has been discussed and proven exhaustively in the forum. The difference in part numbers have been photographed and discussed. The max tow rear springs have a different part number and an extra coil. This has also been photographed. Ive got a set of rear springs from a max tow in my garage if you want me to send you a pic. Its pointless to argue this fact, and one has to ponder why one would.

Same here and I posted them in my thread on the differences in the Max Tow and standard models.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Show me proof. I've seen an overland and sport s on a lift and they have the same springs. There are labels with the spring code and they match. Find me a max tow on a lot with a payload anywhere near 1550 lbs. They dont exists.

My door jam says 1544lbs. Other max tow JTs on the lot had over 1550lb payloads but didnt have all the packages my JT did

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Exactly they are wider that's it. They are not beefier as you had said. The sport and sport s without max tow are exactly the same as the overland.

The AXLES are the same between Sport without max tow and Overland.
We were talking max tow then you throw in another level - basic sport, no max tow.
You said the suspension was the same on max tow, overland, etc. - it is not.
Springs are very different.
We were talking max tow - and the axles are different max tow vs. Overland or basic sport.
The base sport is really stripped down, no power locks or windows, among other things you can't get with a basic sport.

The Sport with max tow is the top of the line for towing due to the wider axles, and different springs (as well as gear ratio, etc.)

So which are you talking about now?
deflecting from being wrong about the springs/suspension?

Bottom line -
Sport with max tow has the wide axles, 4.10 ratio, same width and ratio as Rubicon but no lockers.
Overland has narrow axles, higher gear ratio and available limited slip rear differential.
Rubicon has the wide-track axles with electric locking system.

Sport with max tow has heavier progressive springs different than either Overland or Rubicon.
Overland has the lightest springs (aside from the base sport) Overland springs and suspension are NOT the same as max tow.
Rubicon has different springs and when used under an Overland, will likely raise it about .75" to 1"

Brakes are the same between them all.

 

[Texops]

it's been said by the chief engineer that all Gladiators have standard heavy duty dana 44's with 10mm thicker axle tubes . probably for towing reasons but the Rubicon & max tow get 1.5' wider axles shafts & all.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It is 100% different. This has been discussed and proven exhaustively in the forum. The difference in part numbers have been photographed and discussed. The max tow rear springs have a different part number and an extra coil. This has also been photographed. Ive got a set of rear springs from a max tow in my garage if you want me to send you a pic. Its pointless to argue this fact, and one has to ponder why one would.

Want to sell your max tow springs??????????

I posted the part number last three digits I gleaned off the forum. But I guess some won't believe the part numbers.
And keeps switching between talking about sport, then max tow, then sport vs. overland, then overland vs. max tow.........

 

[ShadowsPapa]

it's been said by the chief engineer that all Gladiators have standard heavy duty dana 44's with 10mm thicker axle tubes . probably for towing reasons but the Rubicon & max tow get 1.5' wider axles shafts & all.

Yes, I corrected my post - Jeep says for JT they are all 3rd gen heavy-duty Dana 44s but the Rubicon and max tow get the WIDER axles. I got in a hurry and tangled things up when the thicker tubes and forgings was the difference between JT and other such as Wrangler.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My door jam says 1544lbs. Other max tow JTs on the lot had over 1550lb payloads but didnt have all the packages my JT did

The first JT I test drove was a Sport S with max tow - and the payload on that one I believe was 15something as I was pretty excited that it was only a couple hundred or so less than my Chevy - as was the towing.

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