Record for earliest or first CEL

[Minty JL]

My scanner is bi-directional so I have that ability. Both codes were PO300s, so not much to work with there until I can pull live data. Normally if it was isolated to one specific cylinder then it would pop a code for that cylinder ie; cylinder 1 misfire would be a PO301 or cylinder 6 would be a PO306.

I cleared the temp codes for now and we'll see what happens later on today. I'm going to top of with some 93 and throw some fuel additive in.

More to follow

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[ShadowsPapa]

You’ve got me beat. Mine went away on its own though.

Just for lol’s, keep an eye out for the threads here with folks that have 20,000 miles and no CEL history. They spike the ball like they’ve got a 200,000+ mile vehicle that’s never needed anything more than an oil change. “Only in a Jeep.” ?

Like my 2020 - 27,000 miles, no MIL of any sort. It was quiet, no rattles, no knocks, no trouble with engine, transmission or differentials or transfer case.
We've had a lot of Grand Cherokees - only one ever had a misfire and that was spark plugs, not engine design. We've never had a GC in the shop for any engine troubles other than one out of many with spark plug issues.
It's more common to have a Jeep that has zero engine troubles than to have one that does have problems.
My first car - over 200,000 miles and the engine was never opened for anything. Only normal tune-ups and oil changes.
My SX4 - 160,000 miles before I wore out the oil pump and the bearings got a little loose and oil pressure dropped. I let that engine go with another Eagle I sold and the guy said all that was wrong was oil pump and loose bearings (blame that one the PO who never changed oil)

Why is it so hard to believe? My family has had a lot of vehicles over the years - engine issues were always rare.

I'm going to top of with some 93 and throw some fuel additive in.

Why? Octane has zip to do with misfires or quality of the burn. 93 will literally make no difference because it can't. Octane is about resisting self-ignition and nothing more. So if it doesn't rattle like a can of Krylon paint, it ain't gonna matter. Octane isn't quality, doesn't impact the injector cycle, etc. For some reason people think octane = quality or better burn or whatever.

Can your scanner gather the freeze frame information for the P0300?

First Service Freeze Frame:
___________________
Fault code: P0300
PCM Mileage since MIL On: 0.00 miles
PCM Odometer: 2662.40 miles
Open Loop - Bank 1: No
Closed Loop - Bank 1: Yes
Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 1: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 1: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 1: No
Open Loop - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop - Bank 2: No
Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 2: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Engine load: 49.41 %
Freeze Frame Engine Coolant Temp: 92.00 Deg.C
Intake Air Temperature: 215.00 Deg.C
Ambient Air Temperature: 38.00 Deg.C
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: 2.34 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: 3.90 %
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: -1.57 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: -9.38 %
MAP Voltage: 3.20 V
MAP: 73 kPa
Atmospheric pressure: 100 kPa
Engine RPM: 1546.00 rpm
Vehicle speed: 18 MPH
Throttle Position Sensor 1 Percent: 18.43 %
Battery voltage: 12.66 V
Fuel level: 64.71 %
Purge Solenoid Current: 0.00 mA
Purge Duty Cycle: 11.76 %
Idle Air Control (IAC) Current: 0.00 mA
Idle Air Control (IAC) Duty Cycle: 0.00 %
EGR Flow: 0.00 g/s
Current Adaptive Cell ID: 9
Spark advance: -2.00 Deg
AC Clutch: Engaged
EGR Gassed Flowing: No
Power Steering High Pressure: No
AC Switch: On
PRNDL in Gear: Yes
Brake switch: Not pressed
Low Ethanol PWR Enrich Flag: No
Low Ethanol Therm Management Flag: No
Ethanol Gas For Sure: No
Ethanol Mode: No
Ethanol - 0% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - 85% Blend Direction: No
Ethanol - Open Loop Fuelling: No
Ethanol Fine Tune Complete Previous: No
Ethanol Fuel Volume Changed: No
Ethanol Low Fuel: No
Ethanol Trigger On Fuel Volume Fault: No
Ethanol Trigger During Learn: No
Ethanol Learn: Disabled
Ethanol Course Update Ready to Learn: No
Ethanol Course Update: Not completed
Ethanol Fine Tune: Not completed
Actual Torque: 67.84 Nm
Potential Torque: 145.64 Nm
Target throttle position: 3.73 V
Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) Motor Directional Duty Cycle: 13.81 %DC
Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) Motor Duty Cycle: 13.81 %DC
Throttle position sensor 1: 3.71 V
Throttle position sensor 2: 16.29 V
Accelerator pedal sensor 11.03 V
Accelerator pedal sensor 20.51 V
Accelerator pedal position: 11.66 %
Brake switch 1: Released
Brake switch 2: Released
H-Bridge Circuit: Enabled
Ignition Run/Start Switch: On

 

[Snake Eyes]

A Jeep assembly guy puts these little gerbils right behind the dash. Every time they hit a button they get a nut and it turns on the CEL light. You must have a really fat gerbil….

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A Jeep assembly guy puts these little gerbils right behind the dash. Every time they hit a button they get a nut and it turns on the CEL light. You must have a really fat gerbil….

The one in my 2020 starved to death.
The one in my 2022 can't get it right and the light flickers but doesn't stay on. His boss wants to fire him but his union rep says not so fast, he's doing the best he can.

 

[Minty JL]

I only said gas because who knows what trash was put into prior to delivery. Since there is not on specific misfire and I need gas anyways why not just rule that out with something I was going to do anyways

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I only said gas because who knows what trash was put into prior to delivery. Since there is not on specific misfire and I need gas anyways why not just rule that out with something I was going to do anyways

Just buy a top tier gas from a clean station. Anything 87+ will do the same thing as long as it's TT gas. That's all. I commented because people seem to believe 93 is better or will solve problems.
Personally, knowing what I know about gasoline and octane, I'd not spend the extra money on octane but hey, it's your credit card

 

[Barnaby’sdad]

Like my 2020 - 27,000 miles, no MIL of any sort. It was quiet, no rattles, no knocks, no trouble with engine, transmission or differentials or transfer case.
We've had a lot of Grand Cherokees - only one ever had a misfire and that was spark plugs, not engine design. We've never had a GC in the shop for any engine troubles other than one out of many with spark plug issues.
It's more common to have a Jeep that has zero engine troubles than to have one that does have problems.
My first car - over 200,000 miles and the engine was never opened for anything. Only normal tune-ups and oil changes.
My SX4 - 160,000 miles before I wore out the oil pump and the bearings got a little loose and oil pressure dropped. I let that engine go with another Eagle I sold and the guy said all that was wrong was oil pump and loose bearings (blame that one the PO who never changed oil)

Why is it so hard to believe? My family has had a lot of vehicles over the years - engine issues were always rare.

It’s not hard to believe. I said that it’s laughable that folks make a big deal out of ~20,000 trouble free miles in their JT…as if it’s some kind of engineering accomplishment. I.e. Your example. It’s an absolute embarrassment for Jeep and speaks volumes about perception of the brand as a whole that folks feel the need to point out an example like that.

Who care if a vehicle is trouble free for 20,000 or 50,000 miles? That should be the expectation, not the exception, is where I’m going with my comments above. A vehicle should be able to go 20,000+ miles…a little over a years worth of miles for many folks…without a noteworthy failure.

 

[Chestnut]

I run 89 in my 21 JT mainly because i get knocking rolling into the throttle at 1,200 RPM in first gear with 87.

I never realized how touchy spark plugs could be until recently. I changed the plugs in our Forester XT. One had a crack in the porcelain. Couldn't see it when I installed the plugs. I hit the gas to merge on to the freeway, the car shook like it was misfiring bad, and the dash lit up like a Christmas tree. Luckily it was cylinder #2 which is the easiest to replace on the FA20. The parts department exchanged it with no questions. Makes me wonder how common a crack in a spark plug is.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A vehicle should be able to go 20,000+ miles…a little over a years worth of miles for many folks…without a noteworthy failure.

And the vast majority do - the internet skews perceptions of how many troubles there are in 20,000 miles or less. Forums magnify the issues to make them look common or plentiful. Forums are where people gather to complain not gather to praise their 100,000 trouble-free miles. No one joins anything but a church to sing praises. Fakebook, forums, all of it - take a huge magnifying glass to problems. Misfires are not common unless you are in a forum or fakebook page.
When you visit your free clinic or a hospital it looks like mankind is sickly and doomed (well, there may actually be something to that, but that's another whole forum and topic)
When you go to a support group, every member is dying of cancer, is a cancer survivor or has a family member with cancer.
When you are looking at the internet, everyone has an engine failure or something of that magnitude.
Take the numbers of the 3.6 sold since this generation was put into most models (not since introduction with 2015 but since it hit all Jeep models) - hundreds of thousands. Take the number of forum members, then take the number of members with a CEL - you will find the misfire or CEL issue to be smaller than 1%.
That's pretty damned good considering this engine runs on the bleeding edge much of the time. It runs at or near stoich a lot, and the examples of these going high miles with no issues is going to be huge compared to a fraction of a percent who make their voices heard by the world on fakebook and forums.
Your view of vehicle problems is skewed by taking your information from a forum. (and by people who don't know and have no experience and yet claim to know)

Do the math - look up the total sales figures for the 3.6 and compare that to the numbers here who have issues. And consider - some have posted about their issue in multiple threads and multiple times, like a house of mirrors, making it look like more people have more problems.

The internet has ruined the perceptions of reality and skewed true numbers.

Your example. It’s an absolute embarrassment for Jeep and speaks volumes about perception of the brand as a whole that folks feel the need to point out an example like that.

I point it out to show people like you that your vision is skewed and distorted. Everyone points out all of the failures - I'm saying yeah, all of the people in the graves at a cemetery are dead, too.
You ignore all of those who do NOT come in talking about the 99.xx% who have no problems and even blast them for doing so. We are only trying to counter this bull crap perception of huge rates of failure.
Go look at the forums for Ford, Chevy/GM, and others - you'll find the same thing - nothing but how many failures there are. Everyone has paint bubbling and coming off and yet you would point out and see it as a Jeep issue.
Multiple companies have had steering issues - and yet you would point out it's a Jeep thing (go tell the Cadillac people that it's only a Jeep thing)
Being a former tech and troubleshooter, I tend to hang out in forums and pages devoted to multiple makes and models and see the broader picture.

I point out those trouble-free miles not because it's an exception, but to counter people like you who believe it is an exception and that failure is the rule.

 

[Barnaby’sdad]

And the vast majority do - the internet skews perceptions of how many troubles there are in 20,000 miles or less. Forums magnify the issues to make them look common or plentiful. Forums are where people gather to complain not gather to praise their 100,000 trouble-free miles. No one joins anything but a church to sing praises. Fakebook, forums, all of it - take a huge magnifying glass to problems. Misfires are not common unless you are in a forum or fakebook page.
When you visit your free clinic or a hospital it looks like mankind is sickly and doomed (well, there may actually be something to that, but that's another whole forum and topic)
When you go to a support group, every member is dying of cancer, is a cancer survivor or has a family member with cancer.
When you are looking at the internet, everyone has an engine failure or something of that magnitude.
Take the numbers of the 3.6 sold since this generation was put into most models (not since introduction with 2015 but since it hit all Jeep models) - hundreds of thousands. Take the number of forum members, then take the number of members with a CEL - you will find the misfire or CEL issue to be smaller than 1%.
That's pretty damned good considering this engine runs on the bleeding edge much of the time. It runs at or near stoich a lot, and the examples of these going high miles with no issues is going to be huge compared to a fraction of a percent who make their voices heard by the world on fakebook and forums.
Your view of vehicle problems is skewed by taking your information from a forum. (and by people who don't know and have no experience and yet claim to know)

Do the math - look up the total sales figures for the 3.6 and compare that to the numbers here who have issues. And consider - some have posted about their issue in multiple threads and multiple times, like a house of mirrors, making it look like more people have more problems.

The internet has ruined the perceptions of reality and skewed true numbers.



I point it out to show people like you that your vision is skewed and distorted. Everyone points out all of the failures - I'm saying yeah, all of the people in the graves at a cemetery are dead, too.
You ignore all of those who do NOT come in talking about the 99.xx% who have no problems and even blast them for doing so. We are only trying to counter this bull crap perception of huge rates of failure.
Go look at the forums for Ford, Chevy/GM, and others - you'll find the same thing - nothing but how many failures there are. Everyone has paint bubbling and coming off and yet you would point out and see it as a Jeep issue.
Multiple companies have had steering issues - and yet you would point out it's a Jeep thing (go tell the Cadillac people that it's only a Jeep thing)
Being a former tech and troubleshooter, I tend to hang out in forums and pages devoted to multiple makes and models and see the broader picture.

I point out those trouble-free miles not because it's an exception, but to counter people like you who believe it is an exception and that failure is the rule.

So yeah…again…just saying that I find it amusing that folks feels the need to comment on 20,000 trouble free miles.

^ Congratulations on your novel. You win the internets for today.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I never realized how touchy spark plugs could be until recently. I changed the plugs in our Forester XT. One had a crack in the porcelain. Couldn't see it when I installed the plugs. I hit the gas to merge on to the freeway, the car shook like it was misfiring bad, and the dash lit up like a Christmas tree. Luckily it was cylinder #2 which is the easiest to replace on the FA20. The parts department exchanged it with no questions. Makes me wonder how common a crack in a spark plug is.

Not so much 30 years ago, but in the last decade, oh, yeah.
In fact to meet their goals, MOPAR had to spec different spark plugs - different type of plugs, for the revamped 3.6 in 2015.

Take a look at this from 2015 - seriously, a platinum-tipped ground electrode?
And all of the guys in the last century needed to worry about was - does it spark?

The stresses they go through, how perfect the spark must be, the pressures and heat they operate under.....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So yeah…again…just saying that I find it amusing that folks feels the need to comment on 20,000 trouble free miles.

^ Congratulations on your novel. You win the internets for today.

Might try for some reading comprehension as obviously you "don't get it" or don't want to.

 

[charliez]

I got you all beat. When I got my hooptie do, it had a check engine light the instant I got it. O miles put on it. In fact it had it a negative mile count, it was on before I got it. But I don't care. I know, not a Jeep thing but hey.

(the first hooptie, hooptie don't, died a violent death and a intersection know to kill hoopties)

 

[Barnaby’sdad]

Might try for some reading comprehension as obviously you "don't get it" or don't want to.

I read it. I get it. I just don’t see what it has to do with me being amused whenever someone is like “the vehicle I spent ~$40-60K on didn’t fail five minutes after it rolled off the lot.”

Essentially I agree with you…it isn’t/shouldn’t be noteworthy, but folks feel the need to make a note of it, so I’m going to continue being amused whenever someone makes note of it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I read it. I get it. I just don’t see what it has to do with me being amused whenever someone is like “the vehicle I spent ~$40-60K on didn’t fail five minutes after it rolled off the lot.”

Essentially I agree with you…it isn’t/shouldn’t be noteworthy, but folks feel the need to make a note of it, so I’m going to continue being amused whenever someone makes note of it.

It's all to continue to amuse you. A plot, an evil plan.

It's not news worthy - it's to try to prove to the negative nellies out there that failure is the abnormal, success is the norm. All some see is how bad things are - they live in a forum and believe all they read. It's like someone coming in and saying all ravens are black (that's all they have ever seen) while someone else comes in and says - no, here's a white one.
You say Jeep should be ashamed with their "record" of all of these failures.
I'm saying - what record of failures? There's millions more successes.
But you laugh when someone points to the successes, countering those who would believe that if you have a 3.6 you WILL see a CEL and Jeep should be ashamed.
Go ahead, be amused. Glad we could keep you happy.

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