Rockers, Cams and UOAs (Oh My)

[Squashead]

As a way of background, I have or have had 4 pentastar engines. I think it is a wonderful and reliable engine despite probable oil cooler problems and unlikely(?) rocker/cam issues. We had a 2017 Grand Caravan with 200K on it that I did 10k oil changes of Mobil 1 EP the whole life and the UOA was still showing wear metals well below the average at a much longer than average interval; if the transmission hadn't started going, I would still have it. No tick or cam problems in any of my engines after a combined 350K miles even though all of them have sounded clicky to me . But I always have it in the back of my mind...

So, my question is, since I don't have faith in my ear at discerning between normal and problematic ticks, if I have a history of used oil analysis for a vehicle with consistently low iron levels, can I definitively rule out an existing or developing rocker or cam problem.

I know low iron is no guarantee it won't start to develop next month; I don't expect that. I also understand that high iron only indicates something is wearing, not what. But logically, it seems like abnormal rocker or cam wear would have to show up in the iron levels unless maybe it could be the wrong size of particles.

Sorry, I'm a maintenance geek and this is the kind of thing I wonder about.

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[Stan H]

As a way of background, I have or have had 4 pentastar engines. I think it is a wonderful and reliable engine despite probable oil cooler problems and unlikely(?) rocker/cam issues. We had a 2017 Grand Caravan with 200K on it that I did 10k oil changes of Mobil 1 EP the whole life and the UOA was still showing wear metals well below the average at a much longer than average interval; if the transmission hadn't started going, I would still have it. No tick or cam problems in any of my engines after a combined 350K miles even though all of them have sounded clicky to me . But I always have it in the back of my mind...

So, my question is, since I don't have faith in my ear at discerning between normal and problematic ticks, if I have a history of used oil analysis for a vehicle with consistently low iron levels, can I definitively rule out an existing or developing rocker or cam problem.

I know low iron is no guarantee it won't start to develop next month; I don't expect that. I also understand that high iron only indicates something is wearing, not what. But logically, it seems like abnormal rocker or cam wear would have to show up in the iron levels unless maybe it could be the wrong size of particles.

Sorry, I'm a maintenance geek and this is the kind of thing I wonder about.

UOA = Unidentified Oil Analysis

 

[cb4017]

I tend to agree. I started doing regular UOAs in 2008 on a then new JKU Wrangler with the 3.8L engine. They had a reputation on the JK Forums for spinning main bearings. I ran 5w-30 in it and did UOAs at every oil change. Had it 10 years and over 100K miles and it was still going strong when I had an LS conversion done on it by Robbie at Motech.

Fast forward to the PUG engines I had in my 19 JLU, my 21 JT and now my 25 JTM. I did UOAs on the 19 and 21. I plan on regular UOAs on the 25.

I know PUG tends to have high iron but figure a spike in iron would probably indicate a cam/lifter issue and maybe get it taken care of before it gets too far.

 

[Stan H]

I tend to agree. I started doing regular UOAs in 2008 on a then new JKU Wrangler with the 3.8L engine. They had a reputation on the JK Forums for spinning main bearings. I ran 5w-30 in it and did UOAs at every oil change. Had it 10 years and over 100K miles and it was still going strong when I had an LS conversion done on it by Robbie at Motech.

Fast forward to the PUG engines I had in my 19 JLU, my 21 JT and now my 25 JTM. I did UOAs on the 19 and 21. I plan on regular UOAs on the 25.

I know PUG tends to have high iron but figure a spike in iron would probably indicate a cam/lifter issue and maybe get it taken care of before it gets too far.

But for the previous ones you did all those analysis for nothing

 

[Lost1wing]

I have had a few used and new vehicles over the years, mostly new. Besides the emissions on the Duramax, I have not had any issues with the NEW products the I have bought. With the exception of my TJ (4.0), I have had some sort of an engine issue with every single used vehicle. My new Crown victorias go for ever. The used ones usually leak some sort of fluid and have misfire. Once I get things squared away, the used ones end up being okay.

I think abuse and lack of maintenance is more of the issue people have. Pentastar has been good to me, so far.

 

[cb4017]

But for the previous ones you did all those analysis for nothing

Maybe, but I'm kind of an oil geek, spend a lot of time on BITOG and find it interesting.

 

[Squashead]

But for the previous ones you did all those analysis for nothing

Maybe, but I'm kind of an oil geek, spend a lot of time on BITOG and find it interesting.

I'm right there with you. I love reading the reports. "Yep, my engine is still doing amazing..." I get $40 of satisfaction out of that.

Plus, I justify it by calculating that I can do the oil change myself and get the analysis for less than having a change done for me and also know I got exactly the oil and filter I wanted and I'm not over torquing the oil cooler housing.

 

[cb4017]

I have had a few used and new vehicles over the years, mostly new. Besides the emissions on the Duramax, I have not had any issues with the NEW products the I have bought. With the exception of my TJ (4.0), I have had some sort of an engine issue with every single used vehicle. My new Crown victorias go for ever. The used ones usually leak some sort of fluid and have misfire. Once I get things squared away, the used ones end up being okay.

I think abuse and lack of maintenance is more of the issue people have. Pentastar has been good to me, so far.

Ahh, the Crown Vic. They were my office for almost 20 years. Very reliable. The only time I remember a killed engine was when a Sergeant drove one through a big water puddle and hydro-locked the engine. It was a new car too.

 

[Stan H]

Ahh, the Crown Vic. They were my office for almost 20 years. Very reliable. The only time I remember a killed engine was when a Sergeant drove one through a big water puddle and hydro-locked the engine. It was a new car too.

If you run a crown vic hard to the floor everyday it will blow up.

 

[cb4017]

If you run a crown vic hard to the floor everyday it will blow up.

Maybe. We didn't run ours that hard. We were city boys. I know some state troopers that may disagree with you though. Rural state troops went everywhere fast.

 

[Stan H]

Maybe. We didn't run ours that hard. We were city boys. I know some state troopers that may disagree with you though. Rural state troops went everywhere fast.

I " was"a LEO thats why I said that .

 

[Lost1wing]

If you run a crown vic hard to the floor everyday it will blow up.

That 5.0 was pretty tough. Other things would break first. The 351 had issues though. When the 4.6l came out in 1992, a few head gasket issues and oil leaks popped up, but by the time I had a CV with the 4.6l, all the kinks had been worked out. One of the best engines I have ever had besides the Ford 5.0l.

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