Sector Shaft Play

[Mash5]

A bit of relevant history

My 2021 has just over 50k miles. I do not drive it daily. It sees long highway trips to off-road locations, so a mix of highway and off-road. It is heavy... often at almost max gross for the sport S diesel for trip.

I had the joint between the pitman arm and the drag link get loose and start to cause some increasingly frequent death wobble at around 35k miles. Replacing that joint restored good stability. They may have also replaced the damper at that point.

Recently, I had another round, which was resolved by replacing the track bar with a metal cloak aftermarket unit. I still had a bit of instability or wobble after the track bar when hitting bumps, but it settled out rather than going critical like it had prior, so I also replaced the third in a string of stock dampers with a fox one, and now there is no wobble after hitting a bump.

The problem

I had never had the vague steering issue that some experienced. Until recently, it had always felt very positive in steering (for a Jeep), with the exceptions mentioned above. But after the track bar and damper were replaced, I was left with a very floaty Jeep. It seems to have a dead area in the steering. I had a buddy looking and feeling under the front end while I turned the steering wheel back and forth as you do, and he concluded that it was that same ball joint between the pitman arm and the drag link that was loose again. I was not super surprised by this, given that it had failed before, so I just ordered a new joint. This time, a beefed-up version from Iron Rock. I went to put it in this weekend and had my son wiggle the steering wheel while I got under there. I found the joint was fine, and the play was coming from the sector shaft itself, moving side to side. The play was maybe .01 or .02.

The questions

Is there any kind of adjustment that may restore the box, or do I need to replace it? I know that there is a lash adjustment, but I would guess this would be a separate thing. I guess I could also put on a Steersmart brace or similar. Any thoughts on those versus a new box? How much play is “normal”?

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[kevman65]

The answer is yes. There is a write up or a video somewhere on here to give you the process. I don't remember it. It's a case of a little goes a long way.

Someone will be along shortly to give you the goods.

@ShadowsPapa

 

[OHJeeper]

I was able to fix my dead spot mostly with the lash adjustment "screw" fix. I only had to turn mine about an 1/8 of a turn. Anything more and the gear will start binding when it gets hot and everything expands.

I also have the Steersmarts sector shaft brace. I like the fact that it also relocated the track bar more parallel to the draglink. I've been running 37's with factory damper and have had no issues.

 

[Lunentucker]

You can adjust the "preload".
There's a video at the bottom of this post, but note that the author tells you to use the wrong size Allen key.
It's 4 mm.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ng-wander-fix-cost-me-0-updated-1-7-23.57677/

A Metalcloak Sector Shaft Brace is highly recommended.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...x-cost-me-0-updated-1-7-23.57677/post-1083182

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The answer is yes. There is a write up or a video somewhere on here to give you the process. I don't remember it. It's a case of a little goes a long way.

Someone will be along shortly to give you the goods.

@ShadowsPapa

I've not seen any video on how to correctly do the preload setting.
There are two settings - and that screw handles the sector preload.
You can't possibly adjust preload without taking things apart and using a torque wrench. When that steering wheel column is still connected and the pitman still on the drag link - there's no way you can feel inch/pounds of preload and get it right.
Too much and you shorten the lift of the sector dramatically, in extreme cases, once hot, it will bind and not allow you to straight it out.

It moves the sector closer to the worm (actually the recirculating ball system)
The gear in the lower part of the pic is the sector gear - you are moving it toward the other gear with a slight preload.

I know what everyone says - and they swear it's fine because everyone does it and there's a lot of youtube videos out there (any idiot can do something and post it, though)

This is from a fellow very experienced in steering gears and he is basically saying the same thing I have tried to say - BE CAREFUL. It's a preload with a torque spec and all you can do is a best guess at taking play out.

If you insist on DIY trying to improve what you aren't really even sure of - just be really careful - a tiny bit at a time. And check with wheels off the ground! If you feel resistance, back it off.

note - that takes the play out of the gear mesh and if done CORRECTLY with a torque wrench and everything disconnected, a slight preload.
It does not compensate for bearing wear, slop in shafts or bearings. If you have a pitman shaft moving around, you could have other issues.

Be very careful. Would love to see what some of those youtube "experts" steering sectors look like after some miles.
But hey, they are all graduates of "I did it myself" or Youtube university.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

^^ I support the above… ?

OP- still on factory tires? Or 37+?
If larger tires, might just be time to send the box out to be rebuilt and ported for hydro assist. Or go full PSC.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

^^ I support the above… ?

OP- still on factory tires? Or 37+?
If larger tires, might just be time to send the box out to be rebuilt and ported for hydro assist. Or go full PSC.

What I find interesting is when I look in my books and manuals to compare notes among vehicles and years - the Jeep TSMs I have looked really familiar - then I looked back at AMC steering gear rebuild guides and adjustment procedures, and Chrysler was still using the pictures, diagrams and the text almost word-for-word that AMC had used years earlier.
Little has changed on these recirculating ball PS sectors. The procedures exist to this day, the basics are all the same.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

What I find interesting is when I look in my books and manuals to compare notes among vehicles and years - the Jeep TSMs I have looked really familiar - then I looked back at AMC steering gear rebuild guides and adjustment procedures, and Chrysler was still using the pictures, diagrams and the text almost word-for-word that AMC had used years earlier.
Little has changed on these recirculating ball PS sectors. The procedures exist to this day, the basics are all the same.

I am not in disagreement that the box can likely be saved, just needs to be adjusted. I guess my thought is more with, if the heavy vehicle and presumably larger tires…. Has worked things loose, it could probably use the help.

The decor shaft on the Jt/JL is a significant upgrade from the previous generation…. Combined with the electronic pump it’s a big step up. But big tires and added weight to a rig put a larger beat down on components than I think many want to admit…

??‍ we recently made the larger tire jump and my wife’s already asking, how long before we have to bite the bullet on hydro…. I am betting on 20-30k miles ??‍ guess we will see, and upgrade when we get there.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I guess my thought is more with, if the heavy vehicle and presumably larger tires…. Has worked things loose, it could probably use the help.

The decor shaft on the Jt/JL is a significant upgrade from the previous generation…. Combined with the electronic pump it’s a big step up. But big tires and added weight to a rig put a larger beat down on components than I think many want to admit…

Some of the things I've seen with the steering gear on Jeeps makes me wonder several things -
Were they actually correctly adjusted to begin with from the manufacturer of the steering gear?
Are things so poorly made - maybe rough spots or areas that wear down really fast and require taking up that slack so darned soon?
The "new" steering gear on my SX4 is loose already - making me wonder what's up these days. The original one went over 150,000 miles before it got loose enough to be problematic - and the new one has maybe 5,000 miles on it - and it's loose already?
Maybe sourced from the same people Jeep gets theirs from!
Anyway, used to be these things didn't require any adjustment unless serviced or very old - lots of miles.
So maybe the theory of heavier tires, extra load, and so on is adding up. That steering gear has to take a lot of shock, and bigger tires are a lot harder to move (just ask me about steering mine with a plow on the front - and I don't even have big tires)

 

[Lunentucker]

I'll bet all of these gearboxes were made in hot factory with no AC in India, and now we're running them in 30 degree winter and they shrunked up.

I think I saw a Youtube on it.

Ah, here it is!

 

[tysongladiator]

Have you simply just checked the pitman arm nut and the four steering box bolts to make sure they're the proper torque?

Tight enough sometimes isn't good enough. I have videos on my YT channel. At one point after being worked on, the pitman arm but was barely finger tight. Had a shop tighten it while tires were being installed. Nope not tight enough. Did it myself and was good to go.

Got a little sway action going again. Steering box bolts were about 50lbs under torqued. Torqued them and good to go again. Some parts you can just tighten them enough, but I've learned the hard way with my JT that have to torque them properly.

Not saying that you may not have to go further in depth to correct it, but it's a good start.

 

[tysongladiator]

Some of the things I've seen with the steering gear on Jeeps makes me wonder several things -
Were they actually correctly adjusted to begin with from the manufacturer of the steering gear?
Are things so poorly made - maybe rough spots or areas that wear down really fast and require taking up that slack so darned soon?
The "new" steering gear on my SX4 is loose already - making me wonder what's up these days. The original one went over 150,000 miles before it got loose enough to be problematic - and the new one has maybe 5,000 miles on it - and it's loose already?
Maybe sourced from the same people Jeep gets theirs from!
Anyway, used to be these things didn't require any adjustment unless serviced or very old - lots of miles.
So maybe the theory of heavier tires, extra load, and so on is adding up. That steering gear has to take a lot of shock, and bigger tires are a lot harder to move (just ask me about steering mine with a plow on the front - and I don't even have big tires)

Yep. I've done quite a bit of work on newer vehicles that have made me say, "WTH?" Back in the day, the only time you had an issue was when you're severely modifying something.

And I agree. Tires, factory offroad suspension, and just normal driving. These parts take a beating. And then when you add aftermarket parts and components, they can speed up the issues.

Someone made a joke about me because I said that I inspect stuff on my jeep every time I come off the trail. Especially if I go rock crawling. I was like why would you not? It already seems like newer vehicles require constant maintenance, why would you not inspect it?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Have you simply just checked the pitman arm nut and the four steering box bolts to make sure they're the proper torque?

Tight enough sometimes isn't good enough. I have videos on my YT channel. At one point after being worked on, the pitman arm but was barely finger tight. Had a shop tighten it while tires were being installed. Nope not tight enough. Did it myself and was good to go.

Got a little sway action going again. Steering box bolts were about 50lbs under torqued. Torqued them and good to go again. Some parts you can just tighten them enough, but I've learned the hard way with my JT that have to torque them properly.

Not saying that you may not have to go further in depth to correct it, but it's a good start.

I hate seeing "tight enough" . It means they really never properly checked....unless their arms have been calibrated and certified..
These take some pretty hefty torque for some of the fasteners and your breaker bar isn't a test. Tight enough is old shade tree stuff on modern vehicles.

 

[kevman65]

?

OP, got enough info yet?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Someone made a joke about me because I said that I inspect stuff on my jeep every time I come off the trail. Especially if I go rock crawling. I was like why would you not? It already seems like newer vehicles require constant maintenance, why would you not inspect it?

I checked the sector to frame bolts shortly after getting my 2020 back from the dealership - the second time that steering gear was replaced.
I seem to recall getting something like 1/3 turn out of one and about half a turn on the other.
Now if you think of the thread pitch on a bolt, say a metric 10mm 1.5 bolt, that's 1.5 mm from the crest of one thread to the crest of the next.
If you turn that bolt 1/2 turn, you are adding .75 mm stretch to that bolt.
Even 1/4 turn correction is .375 mm extra stretch on that bolt.
That's a fair amount of clamping force difference, and extra tension on that connection.
(a metric bolt with a thread pitch of 1.0 is about 25 tpi so you can figure how much in terms we are used to looks like)
It may not seem like a lot - but think of stretching that bolt another half mm.

Anyway, back to the OP's questions -
Sounds like he's had a shimmy, wobble, maybe even real DW multiple times.
That in itself causes wear on all steering parts- including the massive forces shoving back and forth on the pitman shaft on that steering box. It's a constant hammering back and forth.
Any brace now is likely going to mask wear.

Relevant questions would include his tire size, are the wheels stock or not, what about toe settings.
A lot of parts being replaced - but are they the result or the cause?
He's got wondering or loose feeling steering now - possible all of that hammering - if it was the true DW where you have to slow way down or even stop to get it to go away, it's likely hammered the @#$% out of the lower bearings in that steering box.
There should not be play. If there is - that thing needs to be rebuilt and set up back to proper specs.

I found the joint was fine, and the play was coming from the sector shaft itself, moving side to side. The play was maybe .01 or .02.

That should not be there. A brace will simply band-aid it. Get it rebuilt - or replaced.
Definitely look into some other factors, though, since we don't know the tires, wheels or other pieces of the puzzle.

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