Service DEF system see dealer warning message

[iadslgladiator]

I should say water pouring. It was not a minor leak by any means. It would puddle on top around the freedom panels and the first time you hit the brakes, it would POUR in at the top around both doors. Two dealerships could never get it fixed and neither could a third party that fixes leaks on cars. Go figure. I would have bet my issues would have been EcoDiesel related. Never thought I’d have a water leak like this!

That's crazy!

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[JeepGuy82]

Any thoughts on getting a Mojave?

Yes. I have thought about it. But, keep coming back to sport s max tow.

 

[FutureOdin]

Yeah this is wild. After hemming and hawing over going with the diesel, I finally zero'd in on an order for a rubi w/ it. Working with Daniel at Gupton, awesome guy. It has been a great experience so far but we are 12 hours away and planned to make a family trip out of picking it up. We'll take a rental on the way down, stay a few days and all take the gladiator back. I'm a single config answer away from moving forward on the order, thinking it will be ready early May.

With the experiences you folks have been having, would you say this is a risky plan? I can't even believe I'm asking if a new truck should be trusted to bring my family back home but given these reports, I feel compelled to ask.

I haven't had any problems yet, knock on wood.

I do think we are a really small subset of how many diesel JTs are on the road, though... I can't imagine that this is such a widespread problem, because if it were, I'd think there would be a recall in the works?

 

[Marinertom]

I’m still in the shop making today day 9 now in a loaner. Newest update for my rig is that they do not believe it was the heaters going bad, but the DEF pump losing prime potentially. This is the second DEF pump already and now they are waiting on the engineering team to further review again for a path to resolution. Thinking about it deeper, the first pump went out at about 23-2500mi on the rig. They put a new one in it, and approx 2500 later... boom, another def code leading to potentially the pump again... it’s unfortunate that the issues are happening in the frequency they are, but over all my dealership has been great so far. I think the delay is most definitely coming from the Jeep Corp. side.

I think you make a great point. It’s definitely Jeep Corp. Engineers. Been going back and forth with the dealer service team. Still no fix. Been at dealer for 8 days. Which is now longer than I have actually posses the vehicle my self.
for those thinking about buying May want to wait. Or at least know that if you buy what the problems may be and that there may be a solution in time for you to get yours. Guess we are the test subjects.

 

[Whitejeeptj]

Yeah this is wild. After hemming and hawing over going with the diesel, I finally zero'd in on an order for a rubi w/ it. Working with Daniel at Gupton, awesome guy. It has been a great experience so far but we are 12 hours away and planned to make a family trip out of picking it up. We'll take a rental on the way down, stay a few days and all take the gladiator back. I'm a single config answer away from moving forward on the order, thinking it will be ready early May.

With the experiences you folks have been having, would you say this is a risky plan? I can't even believe I'm asking if a new truck should be trusted to bring my family back home but given these reports, I feel compelled to ask.

Well, I think it is an excellent plan! My own experience with the def CEL were just a bit concerning (so far) and not confidence killing. This has been the only "problem" that I've had and I wouldn't give up the low end power I'm now addicted too. I am not blaming the engine at all and looking at the def code deal as separate from the engine. I guess that attitude comes from my line of work where we have mobile MRI coaches with HVAC and water chiller systems and the majority of problems with these coaches have to do with the chillers. When these things stop operating because of the chillers - the whole MRI scanner is blamed. Contrast that to a MRI scanner installed in a building; when the chiller for that unit goes down the chiller is blamed and not the MRI scanner. Sorry for the ramble (one just went down)
This engine brings smiles with every push of the pedal, the truck drives nice, looks nice, and you get to wave at all other jeeps!

 

[NvrWntr]

I was informed that my rig was being released back to me yesterday. After multiple very long conversations with FCA and dealer with no resolution to the issue, I was instructed to park in a garage wherever possible and avoid long shut down periods in the freezing temps for now while they work on a resolution. I was told that it is a known issue within Jeep Corp and there is currently no ETA to a fix. So now, when the light comes back on, I need to try and figure out a way to thaw Def, drive it until the Service Def, See Dealer message goes away, then drive cycle the unit 4 times and see if the CEL light goes out. If that doesn’t happen, then bring it to the dealer for repair which, until a fix is discovered, will be a code read and clear and back on the road I go... I’m very, very disappointed to say the least and they need to get this issue rectified in short order. If anyone else on this thread is having luck in repairs, please continue to share otherwise all of us with issues may be in for a rough road here until they can fix it.

 

[iadslgladiator]

That's complete horse shit! It took 2 weeks to get parts but they at least replaced the def tank and heaters on mine and it seems to working......I don't understand why they won't at least do that as a first step/attempt.

Regardless, ill go back to one of my original statements, why in F$%k is DEF even a thing if it freezes at a temp that more than half the country sees regularly every winter. Shame on me for not doing enough research I guess but it's time they developed an alternative or allow removal or disabling of it in regions that see these temps. I know it'll never happen but this all just a bunch of bullshit just to supposedly save a few emmissions.

 

[JeepGuy82]

This is typical FCA engineering guys.... As much as I LOVED my diesel Rubicon, I can’t help but be pulled towards the gasser this time around. Imagine what this will be live after the factory warranty. And, other than dealers, who’s going to be able to really work on these EcoDiesels? Scary.

 

[Diesl Jp]

I was informed that my rig was being released back to me yesterday. After multiple very long conversations with FCA and dealer with no resolution to the issue, I was instructed to park in a garage wherever possible and avoid long shut down periods in the freezing temps for now while they work on a resolution. I was told that it is a known issue within Jeep Corp and there is currently no ETA to a fix. So now, when the light comes back on, I need to try and figure out a way to thaw Def, drive it until the Service Def, See Dealer message goes away, then drive cycle the unit 4 times and see if the CEL light goes out. If that doesn’t happen, then bring it to the dealer for repair which, until a fix is discovered, will be a code read and clear and back on the road I go... I’m very, very disappointed to say the least and they need to get this issue rectified in short order. If anyone else on this thread is having luck in repairs, please continue to share otherwise all of us with issues may be in for a rough road here until they can fix it.

That is just absolute nonsense. I would really consider reaching out to FCA/Stellantis directly. They might facilitate a path forward, hopefully, or it can be considered notification of an impending lemon-law claim. I don't know the rules in Minnesota, but here in Indiana, for a vehicle up to 18 months old, they have 4 tries or 30 days (if the vehicle is inoperable) to fix it, then they are legally forced to buy it back.
I haven't gotten mine to the dealer yet, what with the snow over the last week, so I haven't been driving anyway. But we're about to thaw out a bit, so it's at the top of my list on Monday. I hope my experience goes better.
Sorry to hear about your troubles here. Keep us posted.

 

[Marinertom]

I was informed that my rig was being released back to me yesterday. After multiple very long conversations with FCA and dealer with no resolution to the issue, I was instructed to park in a garage wherever possible and avoid long shut down periods in the freezing temps for now while they work on a resolution. I was told that it is a known issue within Jeep Corp and there is currently no ETA to a fix. So now, when the light comes back on, I need to try and figure out a way to thaw Def, drive it until the Service Def, See Dealer message goes away, then drive cycle the unit 4 times and see if the CEL light goes out. If that doesn’t happen, then bring it to the dealer for repair which, until a fix is discovered, will be a code read and clear and back on the road I go... I’m very, very disappointed to say the least and they need to get this issue rectified in short order. If anyone else on this thread is having luck in repairs, please continue to share otherwise all of us with issues may be in for a rough road here until they can fix it.

Don’t have my truck back yet. Hopefully will get it back on Monday. Similar response from my dealer service tech. He thinks it’s a software issue. Can’t do anything until we get an update other than park in garage and Hope for warm weather. What he has found is that the DEF system tries to cycle even though it is frozen. It’s not supposed to cycle below minus 4°F. ( in MN been very cold the last couple weeks). There are also warming times ( range from 15 min to and hour from cold 30° to very cold negatives) Depending on temperature which also aren’t supposed to let theDEF thaw out. In summary the system shouldn’t trigger a CEL and service DEF tank. So my tech has told me he is pushing the STAR team ( keeps engineer hotline) to confirm its software. Then it’s just a matter of time ( probably months) unit get that. What that means. It at some point will just bring it into the dealer get the software update and it should fix these cold weather caused DEF service issues.

 

[RavenMad]

AANNNDDDD, in the shop on the 8th day I owned it with the DEF system failure and dreaded countdown..... Today, 40 plus degrees outside and Check engine light in back on..... Yup, Day 10 of ownership........

 

[iadslgladiator]

Unbelievable, hope they get something figured out or offer to get you into something different.

 

[iadslgladiator]

Would the cold weather DEF and diesel additives help for now?

Anybody reading this......do NOT add these to your DEF fluid/tank..... these are all just normal antigel diesel fuel additives......I haven't found anything that lowers the freezing point or prevents DEF from freezing.

 

[staying_tuned]

I wonder if GDE (for compliance oriented folks) or someone else in CA could create a patch that would keep the DEF heater on full time for those in cooler areas, somewhat of a toggle during checkout, until FCA releases a fix.

Is the DEF tank itself accessible? We have a temp sensitive wrap for our coop’s watering tube than kicks on under 40 degrees. It’s kind of like a nitrous warming blanket only made to withstand the elements, pecking, all kinds of stuff. Maybe zip tie/wrap one on the belly of the DEF tank while ensuring the plug is accessible to plug it in when parking.

Seems like it could be an easy to implement software fix but being a software engineer, I can tell you even a few lines of patchwork that can ship in a day at a small & agile company can take a year in legacy style large organizations.

 

[lrtexasman]

Anybody reading this......do NOT add these to your DEF fluid/tank..... these are all just normal antigel diesel fuel additives......I haven't found anything that lowers the freezing point or prevents DEF from freezing.

Did some reading and saw the below info, which is helpful.

DEF FREEZING AND DEF IN COLD WEATHER

6
by Launa Albrecht
access_time August 14, 2016
style DEF Tank Heaters DEF Tote Heater Freeze Protection Tote Heaters
The Polar Vortex is sliding down over the country. Have you taken precautions to prevent DEF freezing in the increasingly cold temperatures swiftly approaching? We have tips and guidelines to help you with DEF in cold weather.
UNDERSTANDING DEF AND SCR
Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is a non-hazardous solution, which is 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water. DEF is sprayed into the exhaust stream of diesel vehicles to break down dangerous NOx emissions into harmless nitrogen and water. NOx is an element in exhaust that has been blamed for acid rain, smog and raising the overall greenhouse gas levels of the planet. DEF is not a fuel additive and never comes into contact with diesel. It is stored in a separate tank, typically with a blue filler cap. This system is called Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR). SCR and DEF have been used for decades in other commercial and agricultural applications.
STORING DEF
DEF should be stored in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area. The ideal storage temperature for DEF is between 15ºF and 65ºF (-9ºC and 18ºC). It should not be exposed to direct sunlight for long periods of time as the urea will decompose. When possible, DEF packages and bulk storage should be kept indoors in temperature-controlled environments. Use the right container. DEF is mildly corrosive, and should be stored in containers of HDPE plastic or stainless steel.

DEF EXPIRES
Check the expiration. The storage life of DEF varies. The urea is vulnerable to degradation from sunlight and higher temperatures. In favorable storage conditions (proper container, away from direct sunlight, temperatures between 15 and 65°F), DEF can maintain its qualities for about 12 months.
BE GOOD TO DEF
Handle it like fuel. Per EPA guidelines, vehicles using DEF must include sensors to continually analyze the quality of the DEF being consumed. These sensors will trigger a fault code whenever an imbalance is detected. Most commonly, this results from a higher percentage of water as a result of foreign matter, condensation or rainwater in the DEF storage container or during transfer. The quality and integrity of DEF must be maintained for proper machine operation. It must be protected against evaporation and temperature extremes, and kept free of contaminants. Doing so could change DEF density, impacting its performance.
AT WHAT TEMPERATURE DOES DEF FREEZE?

DEF, because of the urea, doesn’t have the freezing point of water. The urea mixture has a much lower freezing point of 12°F/-11°C. This solution doesn’t break into just urea and just water, either. The solution freezes at the same rate, and also thaws at the same rate. This means that at no point does the DEF freezing cause the solution to become over concentrated or diluted. DEF will begin to slush and then freeze. There is no harm to the product which means that the urea solution is still safe to use if it has been frozen.
DEF FREEZING AND EXPANSION
Though it is safe to use again once thawed, expansion from freezing could cause problems. Since DEF is a mixture of deionized water and urea, it reacts somewhat like water in that it does expand when frozen. DEF freezing usually causes about a 7% expansion. It is important to note that DEF freezing is usually taken into account when creating the packaging and tanks that are supposed to hold DEF. DEF packaging and tanks allow for expansion. However, one must be aware of the expansion of DEF when filling. When storing equipment overnight or longer in temperatures that could result in DEF freezing, it is important to make sure the DEF tank on the equipment is not completely full or that it has an appropriate heat source. This will allow for expansion and help prevent cracking of the storage reservoir.
HOW TO PREVENT DEF FREEZING?
DEF freezing was taken into account by the OEMs prior to creating the Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) systems. Therefore, the SCR systems are designed to provide heating for the DEF tank and supply lines; however, if the vehicle is shut down and exposed to freezing temperatures, then it is likely that the DEF will freeze. Diesel owners do not need to worry about DEF interfering with their vehicle, however. If DEF freezes when the vehicle is shutdown, startup and normal operation of the vehicle will not be inhibited. In most cases, the SCR heating system will quickly thaw the DEF in order to return it to liquid form and resume normal operation.
NEED TO PROTECT YOUR DEF FROM FREEZING? GIVE US A CALL AND TALK TO A POWERBLANKET HEATING EXPERT TODAY. 833-915-0842, OR VISIT OUR DEF STORAGE HEATER PAGE HERE.

CAN ANYTHING BE ADDED TO PREVENT DEF FREEZING?
Many want to know if anti-gelling or freeze-point-improver can be added to the DEF mixture to prevent freezing. DO NOT put additives into the urea solution because DEF must remain pure. The quality of DEF is extremely important for proper performance. Adding any additives would damage its ability to perform correctly and could even result in damages to the SCR system. No additives are approved for DEF at this time.

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