Steering Issue in Gladiator front end

[ShadowsPapa]

How old are those numbers? If from 2020, don't use them on the steering gear.
The reason is that the steering gear bolts changed for 2021 model year and later.
The bolts changed for any 2020 that has the TSB steering gear.
The bolts thread directly into the steering gear housing and 2 are larger than the prior aluminum housed steering gear used on 2020 model year.

And - I knew some of the bolts for the front suspension were indeed TTY or set by angle - and I'm not so sure the latest specs aren't also that because I got the idea somewhere (you guys are going by Wrangler older specs, I'd venture a guess?)

Again - if you are using 2020 Wrangler specs for the steering gear, don't. The steel gear housing uses different bolts, and thus the torque should be different if it follow logic - torque varies by bolt size, material, etc.

Also I find it interesting that with 2 different size bolts, they used the same torque spec for all three in 2020 and before 2020.

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[Archie1936]

I have the same issue on my 2021 (No lift, September build date) Started around 4600 miles (currently 5000) Moving or not , when I turn so far right or left I get a “clunk” sound.
we’ll see what the dealer says…

 

[Archie1936]

I have the same issue on my 2021 (No lift, September build date) Started around 4600 miles (currently 5000) Moving or not , when I turn so far right or left I get a “clunk” sound.
we’ll see what the dealer says…

 

[Rusty PW]

I have a Steer Smarts Yeti XD Sector Shaft Brace coming tomorrow. In the instructions, it has this about the bolts.

You can now insert the new fasteners included in box, sliding the two longest M12 bolts into holes 1 & 2 (closest to bumper) and the two shorter M12 bolts into 3 & 4. (Proper washer stacking is lock washer first, then the big washer) (see photo). If you have the steel steering box you will use 4x of the shorter bolts.

So... all bolts are 12MM. the aluminum housing takes 2 long and 2 short bolts. The steel housing takes 4 short bolts.

Here's the torque spec's.

. Use the 19mm socket and torque to the following spec: 2x Long Bolts (aluminum box): 44 ft lbs + 170˚ 2x Short Bolts (aluminum box): 44 ft lbs + 135˚ 4x short bolts (steel box): 44 ft lbs + 135˚

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...-w-frame-side-track-bar-reinforcement-bracket

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...acket_Mojave_Diesel_update_s.pdf?v=1614033083

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have a Steer Smarts Yeti XD Sector Shaft Brace coming tomorrow. In the instructions, it has this about the bolts.

You can now insert the new fasteners included in box, sliding the two longest M12 bolts into holes 1 & 2 (closest to bumper) and the two shorter M12 bolts into 3 & 4. (Proper washer stacking is lock washer first, then the big washer) (see photo). If you have the steel steering box you will use 4x of the shorter bolts.

So... all bolts are 12MM. the aluminum housing takes 2 long and 2 short bolts. The steel housing takes 4 short bolts.

Here's the torque spec's.

. Use the 19mm socket and torque to the following spec: 2x Long Bolts (aluminum box): 44 ft lbs + 170˚ 2x Short Bolts (aluminum box): 44 ft lbs + 135˚ 4x short bolts (steel box): 44 ft lbs + 135˚

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...-w-frame-side-track-bar-reinforcement-bracket

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...acket_Mojave_Diesel_update_s.pdf?v=1614033083

That's what I thought...........

Am I correct in that the aluminum steering gear had bolts that went clear through with nuts on the other side and the steel gear all bolts thread into the gear housing itself, thus the different length?

 

[Rusty PW]

That's what I thought...........

Am I correct in that the aluminum steering gear had bolts that went clear through with nuts on the other side and the steel gear all bolts thread into the gear housing itself, thus the different length?

No, the aluminum housing bolts just went deeper into the housing. No nuts on the other side.

 

[NC_Overland]

I had a low speed clunk when turning to park or other similar moves. Apparently, there was a different TSB for it and they replaced my drag link. It made a world of difference. I guess I didn’t realize how bad it was because my gladiator felt a lot more solid when driving it after that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No, the aluminum housing bolts just went deeper into the housing. No nuts on the other side.

Aha, I knew they had bolts going straight through with nuts and not threaded in those two holes in the housing - thus, the longer bolts.
I am recalling this right........

And here is one of my first posts on the differences between the bolts, nuts and how the steering gear is mounted between the two, based on my own truck and my own direct observation -
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...tsb-fix-what-results.37974/page-3#post-630162


Original aluminum housed steering gear - two bolts go through holes and have nuts on the other side, thus the longer bolts. This is because the thin aluminum housing likely won't take the torque and stress.
Original - two longer bolts go clear through and nuts are used, two thread into the steering gear housing.
I bet I have other pictures if I can find them.

And this is the steel housing - all 4 holes are threaded, no nuts are used...........

 

[Rusty PW]

Aha, I knew they had bolts going straight through with nuts and not threaded in those two holes in the housing - thus, the longer bolts.
I am recalling this right........

And here is one of my first posts on the differences between the bolts, nuts and how the steering gear is mounted between the two, based on my own truck and my own direct observation -
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...tsb-fix-what-results.37974/page-3#post-630162


Original aluminum housed steering gear - two bolts go through holes and have nuts on the other side, thus the longer bolts. This is because the thin aluminum housing likely won't take the torque and stress.
Original - two longer bolts go clear through and nuts are used, two thread into the steering gear housing.
I bet I have other pictures if I can find them.

And this is the steel housing - all 4 holes are threaded, no nuts are used...........

Interesting.
The instructions say nothing about the nuts. In the video. About the 2 minute mark. It starts with the bracket install. It shows them using 2 long and 2 short bolts. With them putting blue lock tite on the threads and starting them in by hand and then torqueing. You said there was 2 smaller diameter bolts. Got me thinking that the aluminum housing is already threaded. And the factory just used a smaller diameter bolt and nut. Not using the threads that's already there. I've seen the before. Hmmmm.

 

[chorky]

No, the aluminum housing bolts just went deeper into the housing. No nuts on the other side.

To my understanding the aluminum gearbox was a 2020 and maybe early 2021 thing and since then Jeep did away with it and went to steel cast for all gearboxes. I read that on a different thread talking about steering issues if I understood it correctly. Either way mine is steel. It's black, with no nuts on the gearbox side like @ShadowsPapa shows in his picture.

I had a low speed clunk when turning to park or other similar moves. Apparently, there was a different TSB for it and they replaced my drag link. It made a world of difference. I guess I didn’t realize how bad it was because my gladiator felt a lot more solid when driving it after that.

This is interesting. I will look into that. Mine does seem to wander on the highway more than it should even considering the narrow wheelbase and deep ruts from truckers. I can say that I clearly saw the gearbox lift away from the frame itself when turning full lock. It was barely enough to slide a piece of paper in the crack but that shouldn't happen regardless.

I did attempt to tighten the bolts last night just to see if they were loose by chance. I could not budge them - although I only had a wrench available not a socket and longer ratchet. However, they appear to be torqued correctly. Now I am unhappy because I dont want to use this thing in the woods until it is fixed - the dealer said it might be a while, and they are an hour away so its not just hop in and go check during lunch. All vehicles have issues, but at less than 600 miles its unsafe to drive? that's kinda a big deal.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

To my understanding the aluminum gearbox was a 2020 and maybe early 2021 thing and since then Jeep did away with it and went to steel cast for all gearboxes. I read that on a different thread talking about steering issues if I understood it correctly. Either way mine is steel. It's black, with no nuts on the gearbox side like @ShadowsPapa shows in his picture.



This is interesting. I will look into that. Mine does seem to wander on the highway more than it should even considering the narrow wheelbase and deep ruts from truckers. I can say that I clearly saw the gearbox lift away from the frame itself when turning full lock. It was barely enough to slide a piece of paper in the crack but that shouldn't happen regardless.

I did attempt to tighten the bolts last night just to see if they were loose by chance. I could not budge them - although I only had a wrench available not a socket and longer ratchet. However, they appear to be torqued correctly. Now I am unhappy because I dont want to use this thing in the woods until it is fixed - the dealer said it might be a while, and they are an hour away so its not just hop in and go check during lunch. All vehicles have issues, but at less than 600 miles its unsafe to drive? that's kinda a big deal.

You never want to use a wrench on bolts. They will disfigure the head. Also, when torquing with socket and torque bar, loosen nut or bolt just enough to break the “hold” then torque to spec.

Also, isn’t there a recent TSB with the lower ball joints making a clunk sound?? And ball joints have a tighter torque to solve that??

Tire psi also will make the front end wander. Mine had that problem too after dealership wanted air pressure up around 38+ and my sweet spot is at 35-36psi.

I also crawled around under there and retorqued all the nuts and bolts and found most all of them loose. Drives (when it did) straight as an arrow unless I have a strong side wind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You never want to use a wrench on bolts. They will disfigure the head. Also, when torquing with socket and torque bar, loosen nut or bolt just enough to break the “hold” then torque to spec.

Also, isn’t there a recent TSB with the lower ball joints making a clunk sound?? And ball joints have a tighter torque to solve that??

Tire psi also will make the front end wander. Mine had that problem too after dealership wanted air pressure up around 38+ and my sweet spot is at 35-36psi.

I also crawled around under there and retorqued all the nuts and bolts and found most all of them loose. Drives (when it did) straight as an arrow unless I have a strong side wind.

I have 6 point box end wrenches, but still, you can't get the leverage with a wrench. Many front end and suspension bolts even take a long ratchet or breaker bar, not the sort of power you can get with a 6" to 8" or so wrench. Even my 6 point wrenches won't do much on these unless you find one that you could turn with a wrench - by that time, it's really loose.

Yes, there's a TSB for ball joints (the clunk). It talks about taking the cotter pin out, re-torqueing and putting a cotter pin back in, etc.. (always take to the next slot the pin can go into, never back them off to line up the hole)

One never knows on YT videos what year they are using, if they don't specify. I've seen videos that people said were relevant to JT but it was made on a 2018 Wrangler............ things happen in a year. And sometimes, frankly, they skip recording a simple step or two to save time and cut to their main points. I've seen videos done where they assume you know to remove a nut or a bolt, so they don't show that bit. I have NOT watched the video above - but they aren't always steps 1 through 20 all-inclusive, sometimes step 6 is left out, assuming you know enough to take something off or for whatever reason.
I can't find them but know I have other pics SOMEWHERE of the original steering gear showing the bolts. I recall commenting on the ends of the bolts allowing easy lining up during manufacturing but there are hundreds of pages of posts in multiple threads about these steering gear, so......... one thread alone has over 200 pages of posts.

 

[chorky]

You never want to use a wrench on bolts.

Also, isn’t there a recent TSB with the lower ball joints making a clunk sound?? And ball joints have a tighter torque to solve that??

Tire psi also will make the front end wander. Mine had that problem too after dealership wanted air pressure up around 38+ and my sweet spot is at 35-36psi.

i am well aware of rounding bolt heads. the attempt was to eleminate or verify if the bolts were super loose or not. They are not. But they may not be torqued properly either

tires are at 35psi. They were set to 47 on the lot. Which is insane. the ruts on the highways here are quite deep. Several inches in many spots. But it does wonder a little more than expected.

I have 6 point box end wrenches, but still, you can't get the leverage with a wrench. Many front end and suspension bolts even take a long ratchet or breaker bar, not the sort of power you can get with a 6" to 8" or so wrench. Even my 6 point wrenches won't do much on these unless you find one that you could turn with a wrench - by that time, it's really loose.

Yes, there's a TSB for ball joints (the clunk). It talks about taking the cotter pin out, re-torqueing and putting a cotter pin back in, etc.. (always take to the next slot the pin can go into, never back them off to line up the hole)

One never knows on YT videos what year they are using, if they don't specify. I've seen videos that people said were relevant to JT but it was made on a 2018 Wrangler............ things happen in a year. And sometimes, frankly, they skip recording a simple step or two to save time and cut to their main points. I've seen videos done where they assume you know to remove a nut or a bolt, so they don't show that bit. I have NOT watched the video above - but they aren't always steps 1 through 20 all-inclusive, sometimes step 6 is left out, assuming you know enough to take something off or for whatever reason.
I can't find them but know I have other pics SOMEWHERE of the original steering gear showing the bolts. I recall commenting on the ends of the bolts allowing easy lining up during manufacturing but there are hundreds of pages of posts in multiple threads about these steering gear, so......... one thread alone has over 200 pages of posts.

Sometimes one can get quite significant force put on a box end wrench by doubling wrenches. However that was not my reasoning for using a wrench. But considering the bolts didnt budge at all indicates potential for a different situation occurring.
do you have the tsb number for the ball joints? I have seen a few bunt not dure if your referring to any particular one. Why anyone would loosen the bolt to line ip the cotter hole is beyond me. Thats common knowledge to go tighter not looser.

something is certainly going on though as the clunking on my short 3 minute drive to the office was louder today. Hopefully the dealer will at least give it a quick lookover if I can get to the shop on friday.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I guess my point was more of a warning to folks - you can be unable to move the bolts with a wrench, the heads may not have turned, the paint marks are intact, but they still can be loose enough to allow movement and flex. That's the kicker. The bolts may not move, you can't turn them, but the clamping force isn't good enough so the parts being joined can move under the forces in steering.

It's just silly how shops - Jeep shops and TIRE shops, send tires out over-inflated. I can't figure the reasoning. When we sold tires, we over-inflated the tires when first mounting them to ensure they seated fully against the rim. BUT - we were to drop them down to the proper, correct, inflation for that specific tire and size when the tire went on, or if it was a carry-in, before the customer picked it up after repair.

 

[chorky]

I guess my point was more of a warning to folks - you can be unable to move the bolts with a wrench, the heads may not have turned, the paint marks are intact, but they still can be loose enough to allow movement and flex. That's the kicker. The bolts may not move, you can't turn them, but the clamping force isn't good enough so the parts being joined can move under the forces in steering.

It's just silly how shops - Jeep shops and TIRE shops, send tires out over-inflated. I can't figure the reasoning. When we sold tires, we over-inflated the tires when first mounting them to ensure they seated fully against the rim. BUT - we were to drop them down to the proper, correct, inflation for that specific tire and size when the tire went on, or if it was a carry-in, before the customer picked it up after repair.

yeah my hope is that they are just not tight enough. But. I am skeptical there might be a manufacture flaw of either the gearbox housing or possibly even frame. I am seeing more and more paint peeling off of the frame welds. Granted this happens often times. But I have not seen another vehicle withsuch widespread paint flaking off welds. Which makes me suspect of the frame itself. Hopefully I am just overanalyzing. Although as someone else also said about the trac bar - I need to look closer at all the suspension components.

anymore these days I am not so much surprised but saddened by the lack of care many shops have for their quality of work or simply even care. It’s become a nation wide problem

It looks like that TSB does not apply to MY’21, has anyone heard of manufacturer flaws of the gearbox? Such as poor casting quality and a cracker box?

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