Stinging article on Stellantis on CNN. Not looking good.

[ZeeJay]

There is something worse than a high priced Jeep…..
A $50K plus side by side. Now that’s incredibly dumb

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[ShadowsPapa]

We've seen record inflation over the life of the gladiator. Prices aren't up, money isn't worth the same. According to the inflation calculator 2019 $40k is 2024 $50k. 23.5% inflation in a 5 year span is going to hurt and of course it's going to severally impact sales, especially of niche vehicles that get poor fuel economy. The only auto manufacturers doing well right now specialize in econobox vehicles... and even a new Honda, Kia, or Toyota is going to cost you $30-50k. These articles are just dumb. And justifying Fords even higher average price because of their "luxury brand" Lincoln? I'd be amazed if Lincoln makes up if 1% of Fords sales. A similarly equipped ranger, Colorado, or Tacoma all cost what a gladiator costs.

To some of these points - in May of 2022, an Overland outfitted like I wanted had an MSRP of about 60K (a bit ore, actually) (that's not what I paid, that was the MSRP)
Last spring when I was looking at the 2024 models, I could get a Mojave X with all of the same stuff - PLUS, it was Mojave X, power seats, upgraded radio, steel bumper, rock rails, loaded. By the time I figured the values of the other stuff, it was almost a wash.
Now, a 2025 Mojave X like I was looking at last spring comes in at only about 3K more than my 2022 Overland MSRP'd at.
So, it's more truck, more options, but only 3K more than the MSRP of my 2022 Overland - with plastic bumper, etc..
It seems to me I can get MORE for less money now.
If you figure inflation in that, it almost looks like it's cheaper now than then?

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

If you look at the big three's financials objectively, you'll notice their debt burdens are simply ludicrous and not likely to ever be paid back --they are all whistling past the graveyard. They and all their investors are counting on being classified as too-big-to-fail, during the next crises.

Jeep Wrangler and Gladiators are cash-cows with very high margins. They cant lower the prices any further because that would break the big-three's business model of high-margin truck sales.

The jig would be up. The entire US auto business model collapses.

All that stated, Jeep may possibly be the highest valued car brand in the world and Stellantis knows this. The largest emerging consumer markets in the world are not located in the "west".

 

[new to gladiator]

I saw value in my brand new ‘23 rubicon I picked up in August for $40K plus tax sticker $61K:

 

[AmosMoses]

I thought cnn was going out of business?

 

[Janster]

For reference…. My 2007 Tacoma TRD was low $40K’s back in 2007. My 2016 GMC Canyon SLT was upper $40k’s in 2016. You’ve got maybe an $8K difference to pay for all the mechanical & tech upgrades that the Canyon had over the Tacoma. Pretty flat for cost comparison….

Fast forward to today…. 2024 Mojave was $72K.
You can get a fully loaded GMC Canyon Denali for around $60K.
A fully loaded TRD Pro can go for around $65K.

After Covid…. A lot of people never went back to work, employers couldn’t find employees, the economy went to shit, people complaining about not getting paid enough, businesses raised wages, then prices were raised again to pay for those wages… It’s an endless circle.

There’s a lot of competition in the midsize truck market. As the MAJORITY of buyers….. The Gladiator (Jeeps in general) appeals to the majority of younger buyers who probably can’t afford them. However…the older buyers CAN afford them but they’re not looking for an outdoorsy, fun, utility style vehicle.

But Wait…. Not long ago..there were articles about Stellantis was going to lower prices?? And now they’re saying the prices are thru the roof??
That’s why you can’t believe any of these articles….

 

[Craig Ruskaup]

Jeep prices have gone through the roof. Buyers are bailing and dealers are furious


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeep-hot-brand-then-stellantis-103047874.html
Jeep prices have gone through the roof. Buyers are bailing and dealers are furious

this was from 4 months ago! All good with hackers for the moment.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Why do people keep trying to compare totally different trucks to each other? You can't compare a Canyon to a Toyota anything or either of those to a Jeep.
For one thing, different size companies, different home bases, and different design and construction methods. And different markets with different scales...
But some still want to compare prices as if all else was equal. I guess no one took economics classes or was ever involved in manufacturing(especially with unions involved)

 

[Jeepdoggydog]

We've seen record inflation over the life of the gladiator. Prices aren't up, money isn't worth the same. According to the inflation calculator 2019 $40k is 2024 $50k. 23.5% inflation in a 5 year span is going to hurt and of course it's going to severally impact sales, especially of niche vehicles that get poor fuel economy. The only auto manufacturers doing well right now specialize in econobox vehicles... and even a new Honda, Kia, or Toyota is going to cost you $30-50k. These articles are just dumb. And justifying Fords even higher average price because of their "luxury brand" Lincoln? I'd be amazed if Lincoln makes up if 1% of Fords sales. A similarly equipped ranger, Colorado, or Tacoma all cost what a gladiator costs.

I bought my diesel Gladiator on March 28, 2024. The sticker on it was $80,000 minus the freedom cover delete at $120. I got $17,000 off of the sticker, $12,000 from Stelantis, $4,000 from the employee discount, and $1,000. While I agree inflation was a factor in the high prices, I believe another factor was as the article implied, a market strategy that believed that American's would be willing to spend the money on their MSRP. My hope is that Gladiator's survive this downturn, but I am confident that Wrangler's are here to stay.

 

[biodiesel]

CNN, Communist news network. I still love my Glad.

Yeah, it's hard to take anything that CNN says very serious.

Stellantis will be fine. Jeep will be fine. Yes, they are going through a rough patch. Yes, Carlos Tavares is bad for the brand. But Stellantis will self-correct. Sometimes rough waters are needed to shake up the brand. Complacency will get you where Stellantis is right now, so changes will be coming, and hopefully the new U.S. presidential administration will help the auto industry make those necessary changes by offering better economic policies.

By the way, I love my Gladiator, too. As a matter of fact, it's my favorite Jeep I've ever owned!

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Why do people keep trying to compare totally different trucks to each other? You can't compare a Canyon to a Toyota anything or either of those to a Jeep.
For one thing, different size companies, different home bases, and different design and construction methods. And different markets with different scales...
But some still want to compare prices as if all else was equal. I guess no one took economics classes or was ever involved in manufacturing(especially with unions involved)

Why people compare different things is covered in marketing class. Consumers consider alternatives when making a purchase.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Why people compare different things is covered in marketing class. Consumers consider alternatives when making a purchase.

I'm referring to the comparisons of a 2007 Toyota to a 2016 GM product, for example, then comparing to Jeep 2024 Mojave.
Very different companies, features, model years, no accounting for the value of a dollar in between, and what goes into making one have the ability to remove doors and roof vs a traditionally built GM truck where the roof is part of the safety cage itself.
That's not comparison shopping - that's trying to discuss pricing and values across years when the models being compared aren't even close.
I also talked about design and assembly techniques being totally different. Toyota has their methods and GM is stuck in the past doing things the way they did 70 years ago (except for robotics, welding and so on).
Toyota bought Teslas and had their engineers take them apart bit by bit to figure out "how do they do it". VERY different designs and manufacturing techniques.

Yes, I do some comparison shopping like most people do, but I also consider the same model year, same features and so on. I compare apples to apples. I'd compare a Silverado 1500 to an F150, for example, maybe include a Toyota in the mix, but I'd consider a Tundra to be in a different class from a Tacoma, so I'd keep things even.

I was referring to a specific post doing a comparison across companies, models and decades. Can't do it.
But when shopping for a vehicle - yeah, consumers compare - but same model years, similar features. (even then the typical buyer is pretty dumb over-all)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

this was from 4 months ago! All good with hackers for the moment.

And 4 months ago it was year-old "news". Others had articles just like that last spring, even last fall when the '24s came out.

I thought cnn was going out of business?

They are bleeding profusely. Exsanguination is coming.

 

[BlueCT]

It’s important to distinguish between inflation and price increases due to other reasons. $1.00 in 2021 is worth $1.116 today. So a $50,000 truck in 2021 would cost $58,000 today simply adjusted for inflation. I’m not saying that accounts for all of the price increases but sometimes it’s difficult to adjust for high inflation over a short period of time. It might be that your income hasn’t had the same inflation adjustment or maybe some things, like housing, has risen even more so you have proportionally less to spend on a car. The simple truth is something is worth what one person is will to sell it for and what someone else is willing to pay for it. If a bunch of stupid people over value something you want, you can either pay too much for it or not buy it until the free markets adjust. It feels to me like the markets were out of balance a little because of rapid inflation and now they are coming back into balance, although they might not be in balance yet. It’s interesting to me to hear peoples perspective on this as it seems they vary significantly.
-Chris

 

[Badunit]

Shifting the conversation a little, one problem automobile manufacturers have is the shifting winds of the government. As an example, over the past few years there has been the EV mandate that had them investing tons and tons of money on EVs that ended up not selling well and costing them a fortune. And it appears now the mandate will be reversed, leaving them holding the bag. If they could follow market forces vs government regulation they'd probably be better off financially and we would have more appealing choices. Fuel prices drive the market toward better mpg so there is a natural push that direction anyway. I think some regulation is necessary, though; I think the balance is off.

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