Strike has begun

[BourbonRunner]

The benefit isn't from the line moving any faster, the benefit comes from less burnout, less mistakes that need fixed, and a higher quality product. Henry Ford moving to a shorter 40 hour work week didn't make the line move any faster, it increased quality and reduced defects, which then produced more vehicles in the same time frame.

I disagree with your example entirely. Comparing Henry Ford's era and what was effectively a hand made product on a moving conveyor to today's automated/robotic assembly is a red herring. Everything had to be done by hand in Ford's era- that's why every T was painted black.

But 4/8s is absurd and is a clear ploy by the UAW to increase its ranks. If a factory runs 4/8s, and maintains a 2 shift work day 5 days per week there are now more shifts for more workers, necessitating a mass hiring. Furthermore, the cost of labor becomes exponentially higher because of the additional workers needed, their health insurance subsidies from the manufacturer, payroll taxes, workman's comp, training, you name it. Union benefits from more dues.

If the factory ran only one shift daily, then 4/10's makes more sense. I loved working 4/10's in kitchens. I had three days off to do with as I pleased- in which I worked two of them.

I'm not trying to demean the value or skill of the workers by saying this but I will ask: what is the comparison between skill levels of a modern UAW assembly line worker vs their predecessors in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's? How much more/less skill is required to do a similar job?

I trust your expertise as the automation expert but I question legitimately how much skill is really needed because frankly I just don't know.

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[KC_H]

I disagree with your example entirely. Comparing Henry Ford's era and what was effectively a hand made product on a moving conveyor to today's automated/robotic assembly is a red herring. Everything had to be done by hand in Ford's era- that's why every T was painted black.

In actuality the two scenarios are directly comparable because we are not comparing production methodology. What we are discussing is how many hours per day is someone actually productive, how many days per week until mistakes are made. Compensating people enough to purchase your product, and enough non working time to use your product.

But 4/8s is absurd and is a clear ploy by the UAW to increase its ranks. If a factory runs 4/8s, and maintains a 2 shift work day 5 days per week there are now more shifts for more workers, necessitating a mass hiring. Furthermore, the cost of labor becomes exponentially higher because of the additional workers needed, their health insurance subsidies from the manufacturer, payroll taxes, workman's comp, training, you name it. Union benefits from more dues.

The UAW is concerned that as new vehicles are designed for automated production, it will take fewer and fewer workers to produce those goods.

Vehicle manufacturers have created an artificial shortage where the dealers can command MSRP plus obscene markups.

So a 4/8 or a 4/10 work week will eventually be sufficient to produce the necessary products for the new "screw the consumer model".

If the factory ran only one shift daily, then 4/10's makes more sense. I loved working 4/10's in kitchens. I had three days off to do with as I pleased- in which I worked two of them.

Study after study has shown that a 4/3 work weeks increases productivity and profitability as well as much happier workers, so less turnover and fewer labor issues.

I'm not trying to demean the value or skill of the workers by saying this but I will ask: what is the comparison between skill levels of a modern UAW assembly line worker vs their predecessors in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's? How much more/less skill is required to do a similar job?

The job has changed. At some point engine components were hand machined, hand fitted and engines were hand built, and they were junk.

Today's skillset is much different but not any less skilled than in the past, the skills are just different.

I trust your expertise as the automation expert but I question legitimately how much skill is really needed because frankly I just don't know.

See above...

*******************************************

My background for insight into the lens from which I view the current discussion:

• Engineer
• Automation expert (long time ago)
• MBA
• Marketing
• Corporate strategist
• Disruptive technology expert
• Investment banker
• Motorcyclist
• Overlander
• Pita (nothing to do with animals)
• Retired

I was not and am not a demographic expert, but I used these guys extensively to help with strategy development and market development

I didn't go to school right out of high school, I worked a traditional blue color job.

 

[Gvsukids]

With automation and AI you're going to see those jobs get filled with machines. It is certainly possible we could eventually program and automate every single job in the world and at that point the robots are doing everything from mining to refinement to transportation to manufacturing and maintenance.

Will robots play football? Will robots install the Midland radio under my dash?

 

[peterpilot379]

Still applies in some career fields today though.

Unions used to have the bargaining leverage of skilled workers producing quality work in the 60s and 70s. That was a long time ago.

Still the case in some careers today. Airline pilots are a good example.

 

[biodiesel]

Public sector unions are still the worst offenders. Those should be outlawed.

I work in the public sector, but I don't join the union. Thankfully, the supreme court ruled that workers can't be forced to pay union dues in the public sector.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Will robots play football? Will robots install the Midland radio under my dash?

Robots are already capable of both these things lol

 

[Rocksalt]

 

[thejeepster]

All I can say is... whoever is making these glad's is doing a damn good job. double their pay

 

[ecidiego]

Robots are already capable of both these things lol

No, they aren't.

Unless you mean the AI in Madden 2023.

 

[916WI]

What does this have to do with anything? The only thing they should be concerned with is whether or not their wages are comparable to other factory/line workers. If not, why don't they just take their extensive skillsets to another company to make the money they think they deserve? The UAW already "conveniently" leaves out benefit packages and profit sharing when discussing wages. The line workers should be celebrating a profitable company--their profit sharing checks reflect it and they have stable employment. The greed of the UAW will be the end of automakers in this country--They have completely lost the support of the American consumer.........

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I remember, as an hourly employee, arguing against unions and collective bargaining, and arguing for "free market capitalism" not realizing "free market capitalism" was the reason I could barely make ends meet as a high tiered worker, while my multi-millionaire bosses (small, non-union construction company, <40 employees) were piling up their net worth into the 8 figures, always with the mentality that "They deserved it as a proprietor."

Then I moved to Toledo, and married into a family which had (has) union workers in construction and at the Jeep plant and others, and they work very hard (and some older ones suffer(ed) repetitive motion diseases; newer policy is to move people around to different assembly stations which creates different risks,) and it's dangerous work.

As a licensed contractor from FL, if I expected to make anything approaching a liveable income in that union town, had to register with the local union.
It was an eye opening experience. The unions are quite corrupt in their functioning, but they are doing the jobs which should be done by legislators.

Anyone here or elsewhere arguing against their own proxy self-interest has been duped as I was and probably by Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, or Glenn Beck: the biggest mouthpieces for free-market, executive and corporate greed and anti-employee rhetoric.

What the union is asking for is a far stretch. They are asking for unrealistic term during a recession lmao. This is what happened to Detroit back in the 70s. People must of not paid attention in history class.

It may be a far stretch but it's with the backdrop of higher gross profits (high retail prices) and grossly increasing executive pay.
If the execs are allowed to benefit from overcharging, shouldn't the workers?

So you negotiated to get paid for 32 hours and work for 32 hours. Not I want to get paid for 40 and work 75% of that on top of a 40% raise.


This is line work, they will get 25% less done because the line won't move any faster on a 32 hour week than a 40 hour week. Im a software architect, I don't track hours or even have a set a schedule, I show up for meetings and make deadlines, that's what I negotiated for and it makes sense there because it's deadline driven work. If now I said I want to do 75% of the work I do for the same pay, that's me being lazy imo.

You are comparing apples to oranges with job descriptions and requirements.
Do you think 4/8s means the assembly is down for 3 days a week and 16 hours every day?
Why do you begrudge the union for doing the same thing you do?

There won't be a change because the anti-union lobby is donating the other way. "Capitalism" at work.

Where is the anti-union lobby coercing its workers to donate a % of their pay to the RNC? I don't think "unfortunate" is the correct term.

 

[Gvsukids]

Robots are already capable of both these things lol

I'd like to meet them.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

I'd like to meet them.

Robots are performing surgery on humans, and you don't think they are capable of putting a radio under your dash? ?

 

[KC_H]

Robots are performing surgery on humans, and you don't think they are capable of putting a radio under your dash? ?

Particularly if the dash and radio were designed for robotic assembly and not human assembly...

The DaVinci robotic surgery system is amazing and extraordinarily accurate. There are others as well...

As an aside, AI medical diagnostics are already exceeding the accuracy of meat space doctors... (and at a speed that is unbelievable)

 

[saintpauljeff]

All I can say is... whoever is making these glad's is doing a damn good job. double their pay

eh, not on mine, during Covid on my 2021 someone pooch screwed one of the valve cover gaskets and caused a decent oil leak… and has me thinking how many others line workers had a poor assembly day

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