Thinking about switching from Clayton springs to something different...Anyone running Synergy 4" springs?

[j.o.y.ride]

I too find the Clayton's too stiff for the road. Not as lifted as you, will probably go with the Mojave springs.

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[Wet Willys]

Yes I ran the Falcons with both springs.

With the Clayton's I had the shaft twist set to SOFT and the main knob always set to "1". Anything over setting "1" was just more stiff. I occasionally used setting "2" with the micro adjusts only on the trails. I played with setting "3" once or twice

With the Synergy springs I could actually feel the different Falcon settings (kept the shaft twist set to SOFT) and notice seat of the pants feedback due to the softer springs. I still liked setting "1" but got to play around with setting "2" and micro adjusts more on-road and off. There were a few times "rock crawling" that I liked setting "3" to almost eliminate head bobble side-to-side.

Overall, the Falcon's pair much better with a softer spring but they were still a little too harsh for me on-road with small bump compliance. Again, everyone's sensitivity is different but the Falcon's were just a little much for me. It's a shame because the price point and overall build quality is great. Fit & finish as well as the amount of up travel and droop are spot on for the JT.

Well, maybe I should just do Fox 2.5's....or maybe Kings? I've heard good things about Accutune....they're pricey as hell but the last thing I want to end up with is an even more harsh ride and waste money on something I don't really want.

 

[bleda2002]

Well, maybe I should just do Fox 2.5's....or maybe Kings? I've heard good things about Accutune....they're pricey as hell but the last thing I want to end up with is an even more harsh ride and waste money on something I don't really want.

How fast do you drive over choppy washboards? If you aren't desert racing it you can go with fox 2.0 reservoir from accutune for half the money of 2.5s.

 

[BearDog]

It's at Merus Adventure Park in Palo Duro Canyon. Definitely one of my favorite places to offroad yet.

https://merusadventure.com/

Off main topic: If you know of a trip coming up next year to this place, let me know. Myself and a few friends have been wanting to go up there for the first time and wheel/camp the weekend. We are down in the bottom of east Texas.

 

[Wet Willys]

How fast do you drive over choppy washboards? If you aren't desert racing it you can go with fox 2.0 reservoir from accutune for half the money of 2.5s.

I'm definitely not a fast driver off-road. I mostly do slow-going technical trails and a little rock-crawling. I do want to have shocks that handle crappy Texas roads well though...Is the reservoir version of the Fox 2.0's that much better than the non-resi version?

 

[Wet Willys]

Off main topic: If you know of a trip coming up next year to this place, let me know. Myself and a few friends have been wanting to go up there for the first time and wheel/camp the weekend. We are down in the bottom of east Texas.

I'll post up next time I go, I'm in the DFW area so it's about a 5 hour drive for me so I don't get the chance to go out there often. There's a Facebook group for guided Meris Adventure tours that people regularly post in. If you'll shoot me your facebook info I can send you an invite to that group. The camping out there is really awesome.

 

[bleda2002]

I'm definitely not a fast driver off-road. I mostly do slow-going technical trails and a little rock-crawling. I do want to have shocks that handle crappy Texas roads well though...Is the reservoir version of the Fox 2.0's that much better than the non-resi version?

The resi 2.0s can be tuned by accutune and are adjustable. The regular 2.0, are non tuneable(by accutune at least) and non adjustable

 

[CrazyCooter]

I suspect the harshness you are feeling is the shock's lack of rebound damping to control the higher spring rate the Clayton springs have. After an event where the coil is compressed that energy have to go somewhere and IF the shock can't damp it, you are going to feel it transferred into the chassis.

A simple test I use in tuning is to find a section of road with some broken pavement or potholes in a row. If the ride feels rough during the tire rolling through the pothole, the issue is likely high speed compression and if the chassis gets weird and possibly rocks (if the shock really lacks damping) after the hit, then it's likely rebound causing the issue. Think of dribbling a basketball.......It rebounds after it hits the ground right? Not good for a tire as it's leaving the ground reducing traction and comfort.

If you want to match your current shocks to the spring, you could be on the right track going to the lighter Synergy spring rates, but your pics indicate that you use your truck? That requires the heavier spring you already own (In fact, it looks like you maybe could even benefit from Clayton's HD rear spring). I would suggest getting a shock to match your use/spring rates......

It's pretty much impossible for a shock manufacturer to valve their shock to work with every spring rate, so what we get out of the box is just a combination of what the tested. Example: If a manufacturer used Tera, and Synergy springs for testing/tuning.......They would likely be harsh riding on the heavier Clayton, AEV, or Dobinsons? If they used Clayton, AEV, or Dobinson's (heavier)springs for testing, then the suspension would likely bottom and pack riding on Synergy (lighter)springs.

The Fox 2.5 Elite is a great shock that started me down the road of custom tuning with the Gladiators on Clayton springs! I found the valving to not be great out of the box........Much too soft in the low speed area causing bottoming/wobbling, lacking rebound, and high speed was too much especially while loaded/towing.

I would highly recommend that you spend the extra on a shock with clickers so that you can adjust the damping desired to your varying loads. The Fox 2.5 has both high and low speed comp clickers which are really nice. The Fox 2.0 resi is not offered with a comp clicker out of the box but can be added.......However by the time you add the cost of the shock and the clicker addition, may as well jump to the 2.5 for a few $$$ more.

Terflex Falcon has been brought up many times. It looks to be a great shock constuction wise, however they do not work well with the higher spring rates. I assume this is because Tera has some of the lightest spring rates available and it only makes sense to valve their own shocks to work with their springs? The un-controlled wobble on Tera equipped vehicles I have seen on friends' and online videos is nauseating and makes my neck hurt just thinking about it!

Also the feedback I have seen from the "Accutuned" Fox 2.5's with Clayton springs has not been good. There was a video floating around of one member's truck bucking up in the rear and nearly swapping ends. Another member opened his shocks to find they actually reduced rebound damping from the way the shock was delivered....Not the directing you need with a higher spring rate.

I have since transitioned to the SDi E-Clik so that I can have it all while fine tuning from inside the cab and live valving, but even with those I needed to add a ton of damping to control the loads.

Just do your research because none of this stuff is cheap. If you decide to get something custom tuned, be sure to choose a tuner that caters to the way your vehicle is used because a desert race tuner will probably miss the mark if you are an overlander that tows?

I always try to help people buy once and cry once........I see way too many people here and at the shop waste $1,000's and still not be happy with the result. The other thing to consider is that buying an upscale shock is kind of a lifetime purchase......Change the oil and piston wear bands once in a while and seals as needed?

 

[Wet Willys]

I suspect the harshness you are feeling is the shock's lack of rebound damping to control the higher spring rate the Clayton springs have. After an event where the coil is compressed that energy have to go somewhere and IF the shock can't damp it, you are going to feel it transferred into the chassis.

A simple test I use in tuning is to find a section of road with some broken pavement or potholes in a row. If the ride feels rough during the the tire rolling through the pothole, the issue is likely high speed compression and if the chassis gets weird and possibly rocks (if the shock really lacks damping) after the hit than it's likely rebound causing the issue. Think of dribbling a basketball.......It rebounds after it hits the ground right? Not good for a tire as it's leaving the ground reducing traction and comfort.

If you want to match your current shocks to the spring, you could be on the right track going to the lighter Synergy spring rates, but your pics indicate that you use your truck? That requires the heavier spring you already own (In fact, it looks like you maybe could even benefit front Clayton's HD rear spring). I would suggest getting a shock to match you use/spring rates......

It's pretty much impossible for a shock manufacturer to valve their shock to work with every spring rate, so what we get out of the box is just a combination of what the tested. Example: If a manufacturer used Tera, and Synergy springs for testing/tuning.......They would likely be harsh riding on the heavier Clayton, AEV, or Dobinsons? If they used Clayton, AEV, or Dobinson's (heavier)springs for testing, then the suspension would likely bottom and pack riding on Synergy (lighter)springs.

The Fox 2.5 Elite is a great shock that started me down the road of custom tuning with the Gladiators on Clayton springs! I found the valving to not be great out of the box........Much too soft in the low speed area causing bottoming/wobbling, lacking rebound, and high speed was too much especially while loaded/towing.

I would highly recommend that you spend the extra on a shock with clickers so that you can adjust the damping desired to your varying loads. The Fox 2.5 has both high and low speed comp clickers which are really nice. The Fox 2.0 resi is not offered with a comp clicker out of the box but can be added.......However by the time you add the cost of the shock and the clicker addition, may as well jump to the 2.5 for a few $$$ more.

Terflex Falcon has been brought if many times. It looks to be a great shock constitution wise, however they do not work well with the higher spring rates. I assume this is because Tera has some of the lightest spring rates available and it only makes sense to valve their own shocks to work with their springs? The un-controlled wobble on Tera equipped vehicles I have seen on friends' and online videos is nauseating and make me neck hurt just thinking about it!

Also the feedback I have seen from the "Accutuned" Fox 2.5's with Clayton springs has not been good. There was a video floating around of one member's truck bucking up in the rear and nearly swapping ends. Another member opened his shocks to find they actually reduced rebound damping from the way the shock was delivered....Not the directing you need with a higher spring rate.

I have since transitioned to the SDi E-Clik so that I can have it all while fine tuning from inside the cab and live valving, but even with those I needed to add a ton of damping to control the loads.

Just do your research because none of this stuff is cheap. If you decide to get something custom tuned, be sure to choose a tuner that caters to the way your vehicle is used because a desert race tuner will probably miss the mark if you are an overlander that tows?

I always try to help people buy once and cry once........I see way too many people here and at the shop waste $1,000's and still not be happy with the result.

Great info, thanks for taking the time to post that. I do want to "but once cry once" here as I've learned the hard way that if I don't get what I really want the first time I won't be happy with it and I'll end up buying what I want later down the road wasting money and time doing the job twice. It's a struggle because I'm a cheapskate at heart.

I definitely do truck stuff with this thing, but I want to set the suspension up with road comfort taking priority while unloaded, off-road trail crawling performance taking second priority, and towing/hauling taking 3rd priority. I may end up with airbags in the back to achieve this along with some nice adjustable resi shocks and different springs than the Claytons I'm running now. Or maybe I'm asking too much from one suspension setup.....

 

[CrazyCooter]

Great info, thanks for taking the time to post that. I do want to "but once cry once" here as I've learned the hard way that if I don't get what I really want the first time I won't be happy with it and I'll end up buying what I want later down the road wasting money and time doing the job twice. It's a struggle because I'm a cheapskate at heart.

I definitely do truck stuff with this thing, but I want to set the suspension up with road comfort taking priority while unloaded, off-road trail crawling performance taking second priority, and towing/hauling taking 3rd priority. I may end up with airbags in the back to achieve this along with some nice adjustable resi shocks and different springs than the Claytons I'm running now. Or maybe I'm asking too much from one suspension setup.....

You aren't asking too much by wanting the proper ride, it's just not going to happen with buying off the shelf parts as they don't match. The forum is littered with people saying "Im just going to buy xxx" and then find out it didn't do the job.

I run Airlift airbags in my truck as well and they work great to help level out 1,000lb. They also further exploit the lack of rebound in the off the shelf shocks.

My setup rides great with no weight or up to 8000lb GVW, but it takes a property tuned adjustable shock to get there. My Fox 2.5 tune up front runs in the center(about 5 clicks) + or - depending on cargo/passengers in the cab, 0-1 clicks in the rear on the low speed unloaded, 5-7 clicks in RTT overland mode, and full tight with a moto in the bed towing my 19' GeoPro RV. It took me 100's of hours, 35K miles over every terrain type imaginable, 3 spring swaps, and 26 revisions to get it to where it's an awesome marketable tune. Off road drop to 16psi and add a couple low speed clicks to minimize the rocking/head bobble.

I got into this part of my trade (chassis/drivetrain) because I didn't see anyone tuning for everyday all around trucks........I had to go in deep and start tuning being disappointed after spending over $5K in Fox products. The custom tuning part centers around racing. Well.....pounding whoops in the desert is a far cry from driving to work and hauling on the weekends.

 

[bleda2002]

You aren't asking too much by wanting the proper ride, it's just not going to happen with buying off the shelf parts as they don't match. The forum is littered with people saying "Im just going to buy xxx" and then find out it didn't do the job.

I run Airlift airbags in my truck as well and they work great to help level out 1,000lb. They also further exploit the lack of rebound in the off the shelf shocks.

My setup rides great with no weight or up to 8000lb GVW, but it takes a property tuned adjustable shock to get there. My Fox 2.5 tune up front runs in the center(about 5 clicks) + or - depending on cargo/passengers in the cab, 0-1 clicks in the rear on the low speed unloaded, 5-7 clicks in RTT overland mode, and full tight with a moto in the bed towing my 19' GeoPro RV. It took me 100's of hours, 35K miles over every terrain type imaginable, 3 spring swaps, and 26 revisions to get it to where it's an awesome marketable tune. Off road drop to 16psi and add a couple low speed clicks to minimize the rocking/head bobble.

I got into this part of my trade (chassis/drivetrain) because I didn't see anyone tuning for everyday all around trucks........I had to go in deep and start tuning after being disappointed after spending over 5K in Fox products. The custom tuning part centers around racing. Well pounding whoops in the desert is a far cry from driving to work and hauling on the weekends.

Are you saying you run 2.5's up front and SDI in the rear? I've really been considering the SDI's, especially after your recommendations, but this makes me curious as to why if you're going half and half.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Are you saying you run 2.5's up front and SDI in the rear? I've really been considering the SDI's, especially after your recommendations, but this makes me curious as to why if you're going half and half.

No, I run SDi's in all positions now. Running one pair of E-cliks not possible out of the box because there would be error codes in the ECU.

The Fox's with my tuning are still my favorite for higher speed desert, but the SDi's are best for all around use with comfort and control in mind. Most of my SDi tuning time up till recently was geared toward the guys with the heavier Alucab overland builds and I have yet to revisit tuning for the lighter high speed stuff. I just have SO many more miles and tuning with the Fox's than I do with the SDi's, but I'm progressing.....It's just hard since I'm only one man and I have a brick and mortar shop I'm trying to run at the same time. Last year was 7 day weeks except for vacations which was actually work tuning?

 

[Jglad15]

I'm currently running a Clayton 2.5" Overland Plus lift with Fox 2.0's and a 1/2 spacer in the front. I'd like to get a little softer ride on the road, so I've been looking at upgrading to Falcon SP2 3.3's and trying out Synergy springs, since they're known to be a little more compliant on rough roads. I think I'd also like to get another 1/2" of lift all the way around. I'm trying to decide which Synergy springs to go with....I'm thinking 4" fronts and maybe 3" rear? Or 4" fronts with a 1/2" spacer and 4" rears? I don't want a lot of rake but I do tow a good size boat occasionally, and as you can see in the photo below I'm sagging a bit already when towing it. I also don't want to make my 37's look tiny.......

Thoughts?

Yes I ran the Falcons with both springs.

With the Clayton's I had the shaft twist set to SOFT and the main knob always set to "1". Anything over setting "1" was just more stiff. I occasionally used setting "2" with the micro adjusts only on the trails. I played with setting "3" once or twice

With the Synergy springs I could actually feel the different Falcon settings (kept the shaft twist set to SOFT) and notice seat of the pants feedback due to the softer springs. I still liked setting "1" but got to play around with setting "2" and micro adjusts more on-road and off. There were a few times "rock crawling" that I liked setting "3" to almost eliminate head bobble side-to-side.

Overall, the Falcon's pair much better with a softer spring but they were still a little too harsh for me on-road with small bump compliance. Again, everyone's sensitivity is different but the Falcon's were just a little much for me. It's a shame because the price point and overall build quality is great. Fit & finish as well as the amount of up travel and droop are spot on for the JT.

I too find the Clayton's too stiff for the road. Not as lifted as you, will probably go with the Mojave springs.

Well, maybe I should just do Fox 2.5's....or maybe Kings? I've heard good things about Accutune....they're pricey as hell but the last thing I want to end up with is an even more harsh ride and waste money on something I don't really want.

It’s crazy everyone’s diff opinions on spring and shock combo’s to how they feel on the road. I am currently running Clayton 2.5in springs on the overland plus kit and Fox 2.0s. And I feel that it’s too soft and floaty for my liking. Been going back and forth bout new shocks. Was going in between falcons/elka/fox 2.5 or something from accutune. Decisions decision. Also contemplating going to 3.5in but then you need shocks, springs, and drive shaft. But I think I rather dump the money into gears, Rcvs, knuckles, and ball joints. Problems of a Jeep owner yah know haha.

 

[Wet Willys]

It’s crazy everyone’s diff opinions on spring and shock combo’s to how they feel on the road. I am currently running Clayton 2.5in springs on the overland plus kit and Fox 2.0s. And I feel that it’s too soft and floaty for my liking. Been going back and forth bout new shocks. Was going in between falcons/elka/fox 2.5 or something from accutune. Decisions decision. Also contemplating going to 3.5in but then you need shocks, springs, and drive shaft. But I think I rather dump the money into gears, Rcvs, knuckles, and ball joints. Problems of a Jeep owner yah know haha.

How long have you had your lift installed? I've had mine on for almost 3 years and it does seem like it's stiffer than when I first installed it. Looking at pictures of when I first installed it to now it looks like the springs have settled maybe 1/2" or so.

 

[Jglad15]

How long have you had your lift installed? I've had mine on for almost 3 years and it does seem like it's stiffer than when I first installed it. Looking at pictures of when I first installed it to now it looks like the springs have settled maybe 1/2" or so.

I’ve had mine on for just bout a year and a half now. Was gonna call accutune today to get their opinion.

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