Three roads to house power?

[John in the Woods]

I'm looking to borrow some community wisdom.

I had some challenges with power management last year. I have a small set of electronics (mostly portable comms and lights) and an Iceco VL60 fridge, powered off an EcoFlow River Pro (720w). For juice, it drew from truck power while running via the cig lighter and a 110W portable solar panel when parked at camp. Short version: If it was warm and wet for more than a day, that Iceco could drain the portable battery below 40% overnight and under 10% in about 18 hours -- even with the fridge set to 40+ on both sides. (Longer version of my experience is here)

I plan on being out longer and farther this year, and have added a bed rack, a RTT and soon an awning; so I'm hoping to upgrade the power system to have a little more endurance and be able to carry a few more lights around camp. Not planning on heaters or electric cooking stuff, just a few more lights and a little more reliability.

So I did lots of reading here and at various online sources, and I think I see three basic paths. I wanted to say them out loud for a reality check before I start buying stuff, so please slap me if I say anything silly ...

• Lowest cost: I already added a second 110W portable solar panel and an insulating cover for the fridge, since more power input and less demand will help in any scenario. I'm still not content to let that stand, since I hope for some multi-week or monthlong trips this year. Easiest and cheapest path then seems to be picking up the EcoFlow expansion battery, which connects to the unit I have and doubles capacity to 1440w:
  • Pros: No installation effort or costs. Let's me stretch longer between sunny days without hitting panic mode.
  • Cons: Hard to build permanent camp and RTT power around a portable device, especially one that needs to stay in the back of the cab to run the fridge. That's a lot of battery powered devices to keep recharged, or a nest of USB cords stretching everywhere.
  • Cost: $400

• Old School: If I want to get serious and build a house power system, I can use a smart isolator system I never got into a previous build and go with an old-school dual battery setup (here's a little more on that idea). I made a rough plan, and here's how that fleshes out:
  • Intelligent Battery Systems smart isolator and management system: $0 (I already have it)
  • Victron 100V 20A MPPT controller for solar input: $190
  • AGM 100ah Deep cycle battery: $250
  • 15' of 2AWG wire (red and black) from main battery to secondary battery in the bed: $60
  • 100A breaker and Blue Sea 12-circuit fuse block: $0 (I already have them)
  • Gen5XI on board smart battery charger: $80 (so I can use land power to charge house battery if needed)
  • Other fuses and wires to complete system: $200
  • Pros: I already own the most expensive part. Classic dual battery system can jump main battery
  • Cons: Not sure if smart alternator will effectively charge a paired second battery. Limits me to AGM battery. Not sure if solar input or land power charger will affect main battery while at camp. I'm worried about sensitive truck electronics.
  • Cost: $780

• New school: Given the cost and the effort to build an old-school system, I'm considering some kind of very basic DC to DC system instead. Here's where I'm furthest from the familiar, so let me know if I missed any key components:
  • Smart DC to DC controller/charger
    • Redarc BCDC 1225D 25A: $385 (no bluetooth)
    • Victron Orion Tr Smart 30A isolated: $271 (with bluetooth)
    • Renogy DCC30S 30A charger: $260 (w/bluetooth module)
  • AGM 100ah Deep cycle battery: $250
  • 15' of 8AWG wire (red and black) from main battery to second battery in the bed: $40
  • 100A breaker and Blue Sea 12-circuit fuse block: $0 (I already have them)
  • Gen5XI on board smart battery charger: $80 (so I can use land power to charge if needed)
  • Other fuses and wires to complete system: $200
  • Pros: More flexibility with battery options in the future. Can handle up to 2 100ah batteries. Integrated management of solar power. Overland proven. More management options. Latest tech with more built-in error proofing to protect truck. I can add a smart monitor later.
  • Cons: Most expensive option (especially the Redarc). Not sure how the shore power charger will work with the system.
  • Cost: $830-955

I'll admit I was surprised by the relatively small price gap between old and new school.

This will be the power behind some lights, a fan, standard comms and a few other gadgets at camp. I'll add some type of switch panel (might go for something with a bluetooth option, so I can control camp lights while in the RTT) and the basic wiring around the bed, rack and RTT post fuse block.

The EcoFlow River Pro will keep it's job in the cab drawing from engine power while I'm driving and managing the power needs of the fridge. In the old or new schools set ups, however, it won't have to carry any of the other house power needs, and one or both of the 110W solar panels can connect to it to recharge. I can always have the house power system as a backup for the fridge in case it's needed.

OK. That's as far as this electrical system amateur can see it right now. Make sense? Or are there some big blind spots here?

Thanks for any help you can offer or point me toward.

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[chorky]

First and foremost is you need to figure out how many amp hours (ah) you will consume for your optimum time out camping and in what conditions. Knowing the expected ah consumed will help you figure out the best system to use. Just buying a bunch of expensive stuff and throwing it in your jeep might work but you could find that your are way over or under built.

go read post #15 for an example of what I mean

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/genesis-batteries-lets-do-some-math.62165/

now by all means you could start getting things and shotgun it and probably be ‘ok’. Personally ‘ok’ is not good enough for me and I want to understand the very intricate details as much as possible. That will really help you figure out the situation.

many folks will disagree with my math on that link but if you go over to expo portal and explore with the million dollar rigs are doing they figure out the math as well first and build the appropriate system from there

 

[John in the Woods]

First and foremost is you need to figure out how many amp hours (ah) you will consume for your optimum time out camping and in what conditions. Knowing the expected ah consumed will help you figure out the best system to use. Just buying a bunch of expensive stuff and throwing it in your jeep might work but you could find that your are way over or under built.

go read post #15 for an example of what I mean

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/genesis-batteries-lets-do-some-math.62165/

now by all means you could start getting things and shotgun it and probably be ‘ok’. Personally ‘ok’ is not good enough for me and I want to understand the very intricate details as much as possible. That will really help you figure out the situation.

many folks will disagree with my math on that link but if you go over to expo portal and explore with the million dollar rigs are doing they figure out the math as well first and build the appropriate system from there

Thanks. I'll dig in and do some math.

 

[chorky]

That being said. A lithium setup will go much much further than a dual AGM setup like I am currently building. And a t a lot lighter weight.

Lithium is fine being drawn down to or past 30% SOC. AGM doesnt fair so Well in the long run doing that. All of the big daws (in terms of earth roamer, and multi million dollar rigs) will all run lithium for their ‘house’ electrical systems. Lithium does have a few drawbacks but for most it is a better way to go, especially for multi-day trips.

 

[Free2roam]

So my thought process has been keeping away from the Jeeps electrical system all together. This week I'm picking up my camper. My plans are as follows.
Already have all of it. Minus the switch bank and breaker.
2 X 100ah Renogy batteries
4 X 100w Renogy solar panels
1 40amp mppt controller
I'll eventually be running the Vl60D Iceco, some led lights, and a diesel heater. Probably a little fan to circulate air. Keeping it all 12v.
Two panels permanently mounted on top. Two panels will be built into a solar suitcase. I bought a plug that will sit on the side of my camper. I can plug the two moveable panels into. Trying to keep it simple enough for my brain.
Bought all my stuff off the Renogy ebay store. All shipped and arrived in good condition. Great prices during sales. Batteries are LifePo4. Lithium iron phosphate.
Should have enough power. On top of that. If I need to I can plug my Vl60D into the 400W plug in the bed while driving. Hoping the panels on top will act as a trickle charger to keep the batteries topped off while driving.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I second the energy audit so that you know what you really need.

I've built many off grid power systems for my RV's with the last 2 builds 1200+ watts of solar on the roof. I used to laugh at these Jackery, EcoFlow, etc....power boxes, but now that I've downsized, they make the most sense for simplicity!

Maybe you should skip the bulk, weight, and complications of adding a dedicated power system to your truck and just upgrade your power source? It would obviously depend on how long you intend to park and sun conditions as solar doesn't do much. I can't imagine packing, setting up, and taking down solar panels daily......

I run personally a Jackery 1500 and it handles my ARB 50qt, Kurig, and USB charging duties with some diesel heater run time without issue overnight with just a 40% drop in capacity....we do however move pretty much every day these days, so charging off of the 120v en route takes care of the charging duties. I will run my cooler at 24° during the day to pre-chill and turn it up to 38° at night if I think I need to conserve power. I also move the power box to the RV and to the house as needed.

 

[John in the Woods]

I just rewatched the @Dan Grec video, and he has me leaning toward DC to DC with a smaller lithium battery such as the 50ah he used. My gear is light, and the EcoFlow portable will still be in hand for the primary fridge duty, so the smaller (and less expensive) 50ah lithium might be in reach. I can always add capacity if it proves needed.

Either way, I’ll do that power audit and get a firm grasp of what I need and what I can reasonably produce. I do plan to be out for weeks at a time, so I agree this is vital. I’ll use the data to get a firm sense of battery size needed, and to know how many camp lights is too many ?

I am curious is anyone sees any obvious holes in the plan. I don’t want to forget a key piece.

 

[Dan Grec]

I just rewatched the @Dan Grec video, and he has me leaning toward DC to DC with a smaller lithium battery such as the 50ah he used. My gear is light, and the EcoFlow portable will still be in hand for the primary fridge duty, so the smaller (and less expensive) 50ah lithium might be in reach. I can always add capacity if it proves needed.

Either way, I’ll do that power audit and get a firm grasp of what I need and what I can reasonably produce. I do plan to be out for weeks at a time, so I agree this is vital. I’ll use the data to get a firm sense of battery size needed, and to know how many camp lights is too many ?

I am curious is anyone sees any obvious holes in the plan. I don’t want to forget a key piece.

The 50Ah Lithium proved to be enough for me with a Dometic 55L fridge, lights, water pump and chargers (cameras, gopros, etc.). The only time it wasn't enough was using my MacBook Pro for video editing for 5+ hours (it runs HOT) and uses tons of power. If I was parked in the sun it was fine with the 100W panel - but at night it could kill the battery.
I'll probably go with a 100Ah battery in my next vehicle just for that scenario.

I have to say though, I do think the DC DC charger is the most important piece. It chargest the battery so fast - I only had the baby charger and it will charge at 30A (I regularly saw it pushing towards 300W).. where-as off your cig lighter you're only charging at 10A.
So that means if we both drive around for an hour, I've got three times more charge into my battery than you have....

And with the 100Ah battery I'll step up to the 50A charger.. that means in the one hour of driving around in a day I'll charge 5x more than just using the regular cig lighter. That to me is HUGE.

-Dan

 

[John in the Woods]

I'll probably go with a 100Ah battery in my next vehicle just for that scenario.

Gotta ask ... what is the next vehicle?

 

[Dan Grec]

Gotta ask ... what is the next vehicle?

It's in the works now, but I'm not discussing it publicly at this stage because there's still so much that can change or go wrong.

I'll be going to a part of the world I've never been to, and I want it to be an improvement in every way over my previous vehicles.

Fingers crossed I'll be showing it at overlanding shows this summer on the West Coast - overland expo, overland rallies and SEMA.

-Dan

 

[ToJTornottoJT]

It's in the works now, but I'm not discussing it publicly at this stage because there's still so much that can change or go wrong.

I'll be going to a part of the world I've never been to, and I want it to be an improvement in every way over my previous vehicles.

Fingers crossed I'll be showing it at overlanding shows this summer on the West Coast - overland expo, overland rallies and SEMA.

-Dan

I am hoping that Jeep or Chrysler sponsors you and gets you a 4xe or a new Ram Hybrid thing outfitted by AEV.

 

[Benbean66]

Just my $.02. I went with the Redarc Manager 30, (2) 100w solar panels, and (1) 200ah Lithium Iron Phosphate battery in my DIY trailer. I have a large Dometic fridge, a few lights, and (2) pumps for potable/non-potable water systems. I have never had any issues with lack of power at any time. I love the Redarc, as it has everything I need in one unit, battery charger, solar controller, and has shore power input. The ability to prioritize power outputs is also a plus.

 

[PlayfulBird]

4xe or a new Ram Hybrid

i dont see that working

 

[ToJTornottoJT]

I just rewatched the @Dan Grec video, and he has me leaning toward DC to DC with a smaller lithium battery such as the 50ah he used. My gear is light, and the EcoFlow portable will still be in hand for the primary fridge duty, so the smaller (and less expensive) 50ah lithium might be in reach. I can always add capacity if it proves needed.

Either way, I’ll do that power audit and get a firm grasp of what I need and what I can reasonably produce. I do plan to be out for weeks at a time, so I agree this is vital. I’ll use the data to get a firm sense of battery size needed, and to know how many camp lights is too many ?

I am curious is anyone sees any obvious holes in the plan. I don’t want to forget a key piece.

Did you see the new video by 4xoverland? Crazy stuff...

 

[John in the Woods]

Did you see the new video by 4xoverland? Crazy stuff...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll watch it tonight.

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