Towing capacity on some of the "non standard" trims...

[MPMB]

Yea for some the math can be confusing. But the numbers are different for different reasons. Payload is determined by the manufacturer starting with the curb weight, then whatever equipment and suspension is included will a particular model. Tow rating is just that, only the trailer weight. But you can’t combine the two, max payload and trailer weight together NO! That’s not how towing is done. Gross is the vehicle only. Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, CGVWR is the total weight under your control!

I've explained it elsewhere, but here's how the math works.

Payload = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - Curb Weight of Vehicle
GVWR is what the vehicle is engineered to survive 200k-300k miles with proper maintenance and care. GVWR is also referred to as the Vehicle Class by some manufacturers. Specifically, mid-size trucks need a GVWR below 6000#. Rubicon/Mojave/RubX/MojX have a GVWR of 6250# and are not classified as mid-size trucks in this regard.

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) = GVWR + Max Towing Capacity
Using a Rubicon as an example; GVWR is 6250# with max towing capacity of 7000# means the GCWR is 13,250#.

But as you can see in my screen caps, Jeep's website has the numbers all mixed up. While the total GCWR is stated lower, the incorrect towing capacity of 7700# puts the number at 13,950#. Most people tend to be responsible. However, "most" people only needs to be 50.1% of the population.

Also, listing the payload weight at 1700# is another mistake. A lot of people aren't going to "do the math." Hell, not a lot do it now.

So how many people are going to buy a Rubi/Moj X, throw a 1000# Quad in the back, hook up a loaded 7400# 30' trailer, pack up the family, and head off for a week in the sand dunes?

And make it safely?

Yeah, I put that % slightly higher than 3.6l cam and lifter replacement rate.

But the owners are just going off Jeep's published numbers.

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[Zachanadandy]

I've explained it elsewhere, but here's how the math works.

Payload = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - Curb Weight of Vehicle
GVWR is what the vehicle is engineered to survive 200k-300k miles with proper maintenance and care. GVWR is also referred to as the Vehicle Class by some manufacturers. Specifically, mid-size trucks need a GVWR below 6000#. Rubicon/Mojave/RubX/MojX have a GVWR of 6250# and are not classified as mid-size trucks in this regard.

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) = GVWR + Max Towing Capacity
Using a Rubicon as an example; GVWR is 6250# with max towing capacity of 7000# means the GCWR is 13,250#.

But as you can see in my screen caps, Jeep's website has the numbers all mixed up. While the total GCWR is stated lower, the incorrect towing capacity of 7700# puts the number at 13,950#. Most people tend to be responsible. However, "most" people only needs to be 50.1% of the population.

Also, listing the payload weight at 1700# is another mistake. A lot of people aren't going to "do the math." Hell, not a lot do it now.

So how many people are going to buy a Rubi/Moj X, throw a 1000# Quad in the back, hook up a loaded 7400# 30' trailer, pack up the family, and head off for a week in the sand dunes?

And make it safely?

Yeah, I put that % slightly higher than 3.6l cam and lifter replacement rate.

But the owners are just going off Jeep's published numbers.

As I stated above, you're looking at it wrong in my opinion. Your math only works if there's 0 tongue weight (good luck with that trailer staying behind you). The tongue weight is on the tow vehicle and therefore part of the GVWR. That tongue weight isn't counted twice so your 7700 pounds trailer really only weighs 6,650-7k pounds when hooked up to the truck. That puts the GCWR at 12,900lbs with a properly loaded trailer and 15% tongue weight in my math... within 50lbs of Jeeps number.

 

[MPMB]

As I stated above, you're looking at it wrong in my opinion. Your math only works if there's 0 tongue weight (good luck with that trailer staying behind you). The tongue weight is on the tow vehicle and therefore part of the GVWR. That tongue weight isn't counted twice so your 7700 pounds trailer really only weighs 6,650-7k pounds when hooked up to the truck. That puts the GCWR at 12,900lbs with a properly loaded trailer and 15% tongue weight in my math... within 50lbs of Jeeps number.

If I looked at it from your side, then we'd both be wrong.

Take my example of a Rubi X with a 1000# quad in the back, family of 4 with gear, and a 7400# trailer loaded.

No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR=6250+
Rubicon X = 5031# + 650# (family of 4) + 1000# (quad) = 6681#
Trailer = 7400# + 600# (water, propane, food, bedding, etc) = 8000#

GCWR = 6681# + 8000# = 14681#

Using your thinking, moving 15% of tongue weight to the truck will change the CGWR?

GVWR=6681# + 1200#
Trailer = 8000# - 1200#
New GVWR = 7881#
New Trailer Weight = 6800#
New GCWR = 14681#

If the JT was basically empty, except for a 200# driver. And this is a Goldilocks scenario.
No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 5231#
Trailer = 8000#
GCWR = 13231#

Moving 15% of tongue weight to the truck:
GVWR = 6431#
Trailer = 6800#
GCWR = 13231#

If I went by the straight trailer numbers I gave (7400) and base Rubi X
No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 5231#
Trailer = 7400#
GCWR = 12631#

15% tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 6341#
Trailer = 6290#
GCWR = 12631#

Tongue weight is irrelevant to total combined weight. It's on the trailer side or the truck side as payload. And when most people talk about travel trailer weights, they talk about the published weights from the manufacturer, before adding all their gear, water, supplies, propane, etc. So that 7400# trailer is closer to 8000# after 30 gallons of water, etc. That's why everyone leaves a 15-20% reduction buffer on what they actually tow.

The point isn't calculating the exact weight. The point is the weights are WRONG on Jeep's site and people are going to read that info and be wrong.

 

[Zachanadandy]

If I looked at it from your side, then we'd both be wrong.

Take my example of a Rubi X with a 1000# quad in the back, family of 4 with gear, and a 7400# trailer loaded.

No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR=6250+
Rubicon X = 5031# + 650# (family of 4) + 1000# (quad) = 6681#
Trailer = 7400# + 600# (water, propane, food, bedding, etc) = 8000#

GCWR = 6681# + 8000# = 14681#

Using your thinking, moving 15% of tongue weight to the truck will change the CGWR?

GVWR=6681# + 1200#
Trailer = 8000# - 1200#
New GVWR = 7881#
New Trailer Weight = 6800#
New GCWR = 14681#

If the JT was basically empty, except for a 200# driver. And this is a Goldilocks scenario.
No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 5231#
Trailer = 8000#
GCWR = 13231#

Moving 15% of tongue weight to the truck:
GVWR = 6431#
Trailer = 6800#
GCWR = 13231#

If I went by the straight trailer numbers I gave (7400) and base Rubi X
No tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 5231#
Trailer = 7400#
GCWR = 12631#

15% tongue weight transfer:
GVWR = 6341#
Trailer = 6290#
GCWR = 12631#

Tongue weight is irrelevant to total combined weight. It's on the trailer side or the truck side as payload. And when most people talk about travel trailer weights, they talk about the published weights from the manufacturer, before adding all their gear, water, supplies, propane, etc. So that 7400# trailer is closer to 8000# after 30 gallons of water, etc. That's why everyone leaves a 15-20% reduction buffer on what they actually tow.

The point isn't calculating the exact weight. The point is the weights are WRONG on Jeep's site and people are going to read that info and be wrong.

A bunch of examples of how to overload the thing don't do anything to show that your method of calculating GCWR is wrong? My point was the reason that their GCWR is nowhere near your math of GVWR+max trailer weight is because their math is correct as far as 15% of that max trailer weight is part of the payload/GVWR. I agree the Jeep site is all screwed up seemingly using max tow numbers across the board, but the GVWR+max trailer weight-tongue weight is the right way to calculate GCWR and that's why none of the GCWRs are anywhere near the GVWR+max trailer weight.

 

[Dilly’S Willy]

Yep. 80th Anniversary is based off of the Sport S with enough fancy gadgetry to be just beyond the Overland trim. If you have questions on what it has jot down the VIN and take it into a Jeep dealership to see if they can give you better insight into the exact build features of that specific vehicle.

Bonus tip: When you do this, skip the sales department and go directly to the service counter. They’re usually more knowledgeable about our vehicles anyway, in my experience.

I'd actually skip ALL that and paste the VIN at the end of this link CLICK ME. It will generate the original window sticker with all features of that specific VIN when ordered.

As for towing capacity: Generally the gladiator had about 1700lbs payload capacity (people, cargo in cab/bed combined weight), a tongue capacity around 400-700lbs, and a tow capacity of 6000-7400lbs (depending on the features/trim of the gladiator aka curb weight and tow features). If you have a manual transmission (like I do) you're "legally" limited to 4000lbs towing capacity due to the ABSOLUTE SHIT DESIGN OF A CLUTCH, TWIN PLATE CLUTCH TOO MIND YOU. The Aisin transmission is rated higher, but the clutch is the weakest link (on paper).
- And for those who want to hate on the clutch issue, just remember, when you shut off the engine with your automatic, you too go into neutral just like if the clutch fails. Important for emergency situations (remember the Tundra TPS recall?) as you may have to shutdown the engine while moving.

To get the highest tow capacity your VIN can tow LEGALLY (private use) you need the Automatic transmission, the Max Tow package (not tow package), and trailer brakes (whether Surge or Electronic). You must also have the LOWEST payload while towing (least cargo/people possible, aka driver only, no cargo).
- Tongue weight can vary widely based on how you load the trailer, which should be 60% weight forward of the trailer axle/40%behind trailer axle.

Other factors when calculating tow capacity:
Lift - Is your JT lifted at all? This lowers tow capacity.
Tire selection - Mostly load rating and PSI while loaded.
Static/curb weight of the JT - Got any mods? An audio system? Steel bumpers/winch? Yeah, that all is part of payload capacity, which just lowered your tow capacity.
Vehicle maintenance - If you have parts wearing out, this will lead to unstable driving/towing. KEEP YOUR VEHICLE/TRAILER PROPERLY MAINTAINED. A 200k miles tranny with 200k old fluid won't hold a gear as well as one with 60k miles, for example since ATF burns and slips overtime.

People forget that when you add payload weight, you must remove that from your tow capacity. And vice-a-versa when you add trailer/tow weight, you must remove that from your payload capacity.


Now if you plan on using this to work for a business/company or if the vehicle is registered to a business/company, you must abide by the DOT regulations which can get you stopped by DOT at any time and require you to stop at any flashing sign checkpoints on the highway. I just started DOT driving myself and my coworkers are going to hate me, because I'm not getting stopped and fined for their negligence. And when the DOT fines you, 9 of 10x YOU take the hit, not the company.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I'd actually skip ALL that and paste the VIN at the end of this link CLICK ME. It will generate the original window sticker with all features of that specific VIN when ordered.

As for towing capacity: Generally the gladiator had about 1700lbs payload capacity (people, cargo in cab/bed combined weight), a tongue capacity around 400-700lbs, and a tow capacity of 6000-7400lbs (depending on the features/trim of the gladiator aka curb weight and tow features). If you have a manual transmission (like I do) you're "legally" limited to 4000lbs towing capacity due to the ABSOLUTE SHIT DESIGN OF A CLUTCH, TWIN PLATE CLUTCH TOO MIND YOU. The Aisin transmission is rated higher, but the clutch is the weakest link (on paper).
- And for those who want to hate on the clutch issue, just remember, when you shut off the engine with your automatic, you too go into neutral just like if the clutch fails. Important for emergency situations (remember the Tundra TPS recall?) as you may have to shutdown the engine while moving.

To get the highest tow capacity your VIN can tow LEGALLY (private use) you need the Automatic transmission, the Max Tow package (not tow package), and trailer brakes (whether Surge or Electronic). You must also have the LOWEST payload while towing (least cargo/people possible, aka driver only, no cargo).
- Tongue weight can vary widely based on how you load the trailer, which should be 60% weight forward of the trailer axle/40%behind trailer axle.

Other factors when calculating tow capacity:
Lift - Is your JT lifted at all? This lowers tow capacity.
Tire selection - Mostly load rating and PSI while loaded.
Static/curb weight of the JT - Got any mods? An audio system? Steel bumpers/winch? Yeah, that all is part of payload capacity, which just lowered your tow capacity.
Vehicle maintenance - If you have parts wearing out, this will lead to unstable driving/towing. KEEP YOUR VEHICLE/TRAILER PROPERLY MAINTAINED. A 200k miles tranny with 200k old fluid won't hold a gear as well as one with 60k miles, for example since ATF burns and slips overtime.

People forget that when you add payload weight, you must remove that from your tow capacity. And vice-a-versa when you add trailer/tow weight, you must remove that from your payload capacity.


Now if you plan on using this to work for a business/company or if the vehicle is registered to a business/company, you must abide by the DOT regulations which can get you stopped by DOT at any time and require you to stop at any flashing sign checkpoints on the highway. I just started DOT driving myself and my coworkers are going to hate me, because I'm not getting stopped and fined for their negligence. And when the DOT fines you, 9 of 10x YOU take the hit, not the company.

Some of what you state is wildly inaccurate. You don't need an empty and unmodified truck to tow at the max rating. You do need to stay under the payload capacity with the added tongue weight. As you noted, tongue weight is all over the place depending on trailer loading and design. A tandem axle trailer is going to have less tongue weight than a single axle for instance. A 7700lb tandem axle with the load evenly distributed (I find you don't need 60% forward of the axles for a tandem to tow well) will often be closer to 8% tongue weight and still tow well. That's only 616lbs on the vehicle which still leaves over 1k pounds of capacity on a max tow. Yes mods subtract from that, but winches and bumpers and an audio system don't add more than a couple hundred pounds. The lift may weigh all of 50lbs more than the stock suspension. With as soft as the factory mojave springs were, I find mine tows better with the lift. My 37s are load range E so that helps too. Then of course there's the concept of LEGALLY. Most states only have vehicle code for weight enforcement pertaining to commercial vehicles aside from weights so heavy you'll need a class A even private. The JT will never approach that 23k pound cutoff so no you aren't getting a ticket for towing 8k pounds even with 1k pounds in the bed. You could get into some liability in an accident, but even there you're either at fault or you aren't. Blow a stop sign towing a little red wagon and you're still at fault. Get rear ended towing a 10k pound scissor lift and you still aren't at fault.

 

[GypsyMech]

I forgot that people still buy that garbage manual with exploding clutch. That's the only JT I'd think twice about hooking up a 6-7k pounds trailer behind.

Some of us actually know how to drive.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Some of us actually know how to drive.

What's the tow rating and why is it low? Because everyone including Jeep knows the manual is garbage. Sure you can baby weak parts and make them survive, doesn't make them good. Not that the Jeep is a performance application, but there's a reason that even race drivers can't outdrive the 8 speed auto at the track anymore. Knowing how to drive inferior products doesn't make them less inferior.

 

[GypsyMech]

No arguements on race application, I'm not racing, I'm controlling. Its a lost skill. As for the Jeep, replace everything below the badge and sheetmetal if you want any of the new junk to be capable. All the failures I've had have been Jeep engineering induced, starting with that POS clutch made for people who can't drive manual. The crap diff sensor and FAD that fail when you need them most going over obstacles make the D44 axles unreliable. All these failures are induced by Jeep, not the vendor.

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