Water in Transmission from 4WD'ing, is this covered under manufacturer Car Warranty?

[ShadowsPapa]

So we're saying that because critical safety equipment, where life and limb is at stake, has a large built-in fudge factor, it's ok to assume everything about my car or truck has a 20% factor built in. So I can go through 36" of water, since the marketing says 30".
i can tow 7,000 because the book says 6,000 and we all know for a fact there's a huge margin built in. My tires say 2800 pounds maximum load - what a hoot, I know there's a large margin built in so it's ok if I load them up to 3200 pounds.

But I go back to - there's a pattern here, and if there's one thing I'm not bad at according to experts, it's pattern recognition. There's a pattern of use of this particular Jeep.
We also know that water fording isn't the same as trudging through water at any speed, with any amount of mud or debris. Fording is entering the water slowly and slowly increasing speed to form a bow wave just ahead of the vehicle. A bow wave, IMO, doesn't look quite like what's in the picture. It's a bow, curved.
We have no clue what speed the water was entered at (but can safely assume a few things based on months of posts), how fast the Jeep was going through the water, it's described as "muck" so it's not just water. How far did the wheels sink into the muck, so was it the 30" of water plus the tires sinking in 3" or so?
At one point, the Jeep went into mud, and instead of being pulled back out (the smart thing if it was very deep) it was pulled through (so how much of the mud was forced up into places it wouldn't normally go).
Back to the water - if it was muck as described, it's quite possible mud and muck and debris were thrown up over things under the Jeep if there was enough speed.
Again, fording isn't going fast, it's slowly increasing until there's a bow wave, then continuing through at a steady speed.
Some like to see how fast they can get through water - and we've seen posts here describing the damage later.

This is a work truck, yet is subjected to conditions many here would reserve only for a fun Jeep off-roader, not a work truck one must depend on.
Is this a first Jeep? Was it bought, the book totally ignored, it got built and take out willy-nilly into mud and muck and water? We don't know, do we?

Sorry, for me, we're missing too many pieces, and yet we're saying "it's got to be warranty".
And comparing water fording depth to critical safety equipment to prove there's a large margin built in so it's ok to go over, we know for a fact it's ok, just wrong.

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[troverman]

In my opinion, that avatar photo looks photoshopped, but who knows.
You are naive to think that most manufacturers don't build in a certain amount of fudge factor, though.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In my opinion, that avatar photo looks photoshopped, but who knows.
You are naive to think that most manufacturers don't build in a certain amount of fudge factor, though.

Naive LOL - what a hoot.
I know they do - I've been involved in design, testing and so on. I know there's built in margins.
I designed the computer control systems for CCC's turbo compressor controllers - and had to make them work in Russia's coldest and hottest environments - and failure was NOT an option. Gazprom, a huge multi-million dollar contract. Not a single failure was allowed.

For a consumer to say "I know there's margins, so I don't really need to be that careful" is bull crap. And to think that the manufacturer should cover something under warranty "because we all know there's a margin built in" is also bull crap.
They say xx" of water fording - then that's all they can be held to.
And again, we don't know what the heck he's done for a fact. He's all over the place with it.
If you have read every single post he's made, there's just so much missing, or not being said.
There's a history here. And a pattern.

 

[troverman]

I know they do - I've been involved in design, testing and so on. I know there's built in margins.

For a consumer to say "I know there's margins, so I don't really need to be that careful" is bull crap.

Uh huh.

 

[Hootbro]

For a consumer to say "I know there's margins, so I don't really need to be that careful" is bull crap. And to think that the manufacturer should cover something under warranty "because we all know there's a margin built in" is also bull crap.

It is bull crap and a circular argument to say otherwise.

 

[Proximo]

I've figured out your problem @adamjedgar you keep saying you were driving a "car". If you own a JT, YOU DON'T DRIVE A F'n CAR.
Sorry (not sorry), old talking point from this forum, that goes way back to 2019.
That, AND your thread has people all worked up about nonsensical shit, causing @ShadowsPapa to type novels explaining himself. Walk away Bill, de-stress and stay calm

 

[TigerInFL]

I just want to know where the reference point of measurment is taken from? All genius members reply.

and you need to prove in court the last time your measuring device was calibrated and have that document notarized.

 

[Rusty PW]

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[DiehardTory]

7 pages of posts. Read the Warranty.. Covers defects in manufacturing, workmanship, and materials for a specified period of time.. Read your warranty.. You're issue is UnWarrantable in my opinion.

 

[Jefe1018]

After 7 pages I feel like most dealers and manufacturers might do a good faith repair… but on the second OP is likely on the hook… OP even said at some point in the uhhh… measuring and quality discussion… OP stated they didn’t expect this to be a covered warranty claim anywho.

 

[adamjedgar]

I'm of the opinion the OP should have his transmission fixed under warranty. The primary advantage of these vehicles is their superior off-road performance. Jeep's marketing is based exactly upon that, not ride quality, interior opulence, handling, or acceleration. It is not unreasonable to ford through that much water. Normal procedure for fording is enter the water slowly and proceed under steady throttle to try to create a small bow wave, which lowers the depth of the water beneath the vehicle. There will obviously be exceptions to everything, but I don't think he was in at an unreasonable depth. For the record, I have forded water in over the top of the hood in my 1992 Range Rover, which was fuel injected with a ZF automatic transmission. The vehicle came factory with raised axle breathers and was rated to ford water "to the tops of the tires." I did have a snorkel but no harm ever came to the drivetrain from doing this repeatedly.

thanks for your vote of support @troverman .

Look honestly, I am trying to see if Jeep will cover this, however, i am under no illusions that apart from the type of breather hose connection to the top of the transmission, the rest really is on me.

The thing is however, if that connection was both adequite and correctly installed, water couldnt have possibly got into the transmission in the first place!

What i have really learned from this experience is that prior to taking these vehicles out into hard to extreme 4wd conditions, one needs to be intimately familiar with the protection efforts of the manufacturers and watch service technicians like a hawk (quality controls are seemingly non existent)

I have spent many years in earthmoving and have a lot of exerpience with small earthmoving machinery. Given that, I am really kicking myself that I did not suspect something was up with that bloody breather hose when i found it lying across the back of the engine. I should have immediately realised the obvious... if the mechanic screwed up and forgot to install it properly he may have forgotten to install it at all on bottom end as well.

A little additional tale...

2900km's ago, my jeep also went in for its 48,000km service. No one bothered to check the brake pads...I am now 1000km away from home and the rear brake pads are worn down to the metal. I am not a heavy user of brakes in any of my vehicles...i am really pissed that they did not notice the brakes urgently needed changing! I had to do it myself whilst away on this trip.

I have now had two completely separate jeep dealerships work on my gliadiator and both have cocked up what i would consider is simple mechanical work.

My trust for Jeep service technicians is at an all time low at present.

Finally, i am not sure if anyone else has noticed this, my gladiator does not wear the rear brake pads evenly. Clearly this is a design problem...Once the warranty on the car expires, i will be looking to change the entire brake system on the car for something better than the factory ones.

 

[adamjedgar]

Pretty hard to say if he was in too deep or not; we don't have actual photos or video.

you do have the actual video...i already posted it. Go back through the posts i have made here and you will see the exact puddle.
In the video, the bow wave is above tyre height, however the water is not above rear tyres.

In any case, none of that is even relevant, do you know where top of the jeep transmission breather line is? Its on top of the motor in the engine bay...thats about 1.2 metres above ground level (4 feet...approx 48 inches).

So long as the engine itself does not go under water, its practically impossible for the transmission breather to injest water from water crossing. The only way this can happen is if:

1. a mechanic who recently installed a new transmission in my car forgot to put the bloody breather on the transmission or

2. The breather connection on the top of the transmission itself leaks (given its a spark plug type connector with no hosed clamps...its clearly a design flaw if this occurs)

 

[adamjedgar]

In my opinion, that avatar photo looks photoshopped, but who knows.
You are naive to think that most manufacturers don't build in a certain amount of fudge factor, though.

my avatar photo isnt photoshopped...why would i photoshop my own car driving through a mudhole that is used regularly by dozens, if not hundreds of 4wders each year?

The wombat state forest area is one of the most well known 4wd areas in the state with heaps of mudholes a heck of a lot worse than the one in my avatar.

I note some here are grizzling about work vehicles...im starting to wonder if those individuals are going soft? One of the best things about twin cab utes of this type is the ability to take a vehicle to work during the week and do some moderate to hard 4wding with same vehicle on weekends.

We dont buy these things because we are trying to save on money...heck, they are terrible on fuel but on the plus side... its twin locked, has disconnecting front sway bar, a suspension lift, mud tyres, rubber drain plugs in the cab, can be hosed out, the roof and doors come off ...the thing is made to 4wd not sit in a showroom or for the wife to flash her yummy mummy looks around whilst she drives the kids to school each day! (theres no doubt about it, parents can turn up in mercedes, bmws, range rovers...but the real head turner is the Jeep on big tyres kitted out for 4wding (my wifes work mates all rave about the hubbies Jeep Gladiator when she occasionally turns up at school in it)

Also, the Jeep Gladiator is one of the most expensive twin cab utes for this size on the Australian market. If one is buying this not to scratch it, perhaps one cant afford to own it and should look towards purchasing something a wee bit cheaper... like a Chinese built shit heap "Great Wall V240" ute!

I purchased the Gladiator because i can afford to own it...i have to accept that within reason, it may get broken sometimes 4wding and that that will cost money. Keep in mind though, this is my pride and joy and it gets looked after pretty well. I dont abuse it. I am not one who goes full throttle into anything with this car and never have. I dont drive it like that and avoid sloppy wet hill climb tracks for that reason. Driving in deep mudholes is not an issue because i depth check and try to choose ones i can winch out of in the event i diff out!

 

[troverman]

@adamjedgar I agree with you on the transmission. No water should have any way to enter unless the breather connection is either a.) defective in workmanship or materials for its stated purpose; or b.) not properly installed by the last dealership that worked on your Jeep.

As for the avatar, to me it looked photoshopped but I have no problem taking your word that it is not. Believe me, many people would photoshop something like that to try to impress others.

 

[troverman]

I've figured out your problem @adamjedgar you keep saying you were driving a "car". If you own a JT, YOU DON'T DRIVE A F'n CAR.

Get a life dude...who cares.

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