We are Suckers

[Jrgunn5150]

These photos, showing you're a hardcore user....

Are in a paved parking lot

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[Alpine Warthog]

The problem is that the Jeep loyalists/purist group is shrinking. Generally speaking, the younger generation isn't brand loyal at all.

Sad, but true. The Jeep Wrangler market is going to shrink and shrink. I think Jeep will need to double down on the offroad and go straight beast mode and just sell Wranglers with big power, huge wheels and beefy axles. They will need to accept the Wrangler's niche and keep the Wagoneer and the other SUVs to keep the investors happy. Otherwise it will get axed.


Hell, maybe just axe the brand altogether absorb them into RAM, drop the wrangler name and just sell Jeeps (and hopefully Gladiators) Dodge/Ram is probably the only brand that is rebellious enough to pull it off.

Name one engine you have ever rebuilt without removing it from the car.

Name the last time you pulled an intake to change a starter.

1994 Ford Ranger with a 3.0. Garbage engine. But with a small body lift it was easy to do repairs. Also, the 4.0 in my Cherokee. It wasn't a full rebuild but the top half got a nice refresh. I was also able to replace the rear main seal without dropping the transmission. With since I was able to pull the head and the oil pan without removing the engine, I could have done a rebuild in the engine bay.

Intake to change a starter? Not yet. I pray I never have to. Also I pray I never have to replace the starter in the Gladiator. Exhaust manifolds are never easy.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

1994 Ford Ranger with a 3.0. Garbage engine. But with a small body lift it was easy to do repairs. Also, the 4.0 in my Cherokee. It wasn't a full rebuild but the top half got a nice refresh. I was also able to replace the rear main seal without dropping the transmission. With since I was able to pull the head and the oil pan without removing the engine, I could have done a rebuild in the engine bay.

Intake to change a starter? Not yet. I pray I never have to. Also I pray I never have to replace the starter in the Gladiator. Exhaust manifolds are never easy.

So, to be clear... You haven't rebuilt an engine in car nor removed an intake to change a starter.

But these are still very important things to you.

 

[WambliSka]

These photos, showing you're a hardcore user....

Are in a paved parking lot

Yep, have to start a journey someplace, like in front of my garage at that time. It’s the journey and destination that are important.

You can check out every other picture I’ve posted here which is a small sample of my time outdoors in places where other humans don’t go to. A concept that is lost on most and I like it that way

 

[Alpine Warthog]

So, to be clear... You haven't rebuilt an engine in car nor removed an intake to change a starter.

But these are still very important things to you.

What are you? 4? Learn to read yesterday? I did a complete rebuild in a 94 Ranger with the 3.0.

I ALSO did a 4.0 top half rebuild in the XJ..... and it would have been fine doing the bottom too. But gosh, there was enough room in there that pulling the engine is easy too. That's the point. Simple enough for repairs to be done at home. Even better, build them strong enough that repairs aren't needed till the 100,000 mile mark and still be able to do it at home.

Also, NOBODY wants to tear apart the engine just to get to the starter. That was the point. and yes, not pulling the car apart to get to a starter would be preferable

 

[jmdwifi]

I had a 2020 and sold it. Bought a Ram 2500 with a 6.4 semi. A real truck and it had everything. Ventilated seats, surround camera, folding mirrors and sounded awesome once I put a Borla exhaust on it. It was huge and after a year of not fitting parking spaces and seeing Gladiators made me miss mine, I sold it and bought my 2025 Rubicon. I love this truck and will be keeping this outdated lacking stuff thing until the engine blows. Then I will put a semi 5.7 in it and be happy longer.

 

[Zachanadandy]

The problem is that the Jeep loyalists/purist group is shrinking. Generally speaking, the younger generation isn't brand loyal at all.

I'm not brand loyal at all...and yet for how we use our vehicles the JL and JT are the only options. Maybe I'm the .1% but we've bought 2x JLURs and a JT mojave since 2019 and nothing else. About $180k total msrp between the 3 and that total would have been $0 without solid axles. I don't need Honda civic front suspension, wide bodies, terrible overhangs, or low clearance fenders and bumpers like the "competition". If someone else built a better Jeep, with solid axles, good suspension travel, and an affordable v8 they would at least have a shot at my money. Conversely if Jeep wants to kill off the wrangler and JT via IFS they'll never see me at the dealer again.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

I have to disagree here. Wranglers and the Jeep Brand itself, only survive because of the Wrangler fanbase.
Nobody buys a Jeep for It's cost, reliability or safety.

I didn't say anything about buying a Jeep because of cost or reliability, I said MOST Wrangler and Gladiator owners these days didn't buy it for the solid axle and they don't care that it has a solid axle. I said the buyers that DO care about a solid axle probably make up a small portion of the market. Maybe it's just because of the area I live in (which I doubt because I see it everywhere when I travel), but 9 out of 10 Wranglers or Gladis I come across on the highway are bone stock and driven by non-off roading suburbia folk. Dashes full of ducks, fully stock, small skinny street tires. I see more and more college aged girls driving them every day, along with middle aged soccer moms.

With all that said, everyone seems to think I'm advocating for IFS in the Wrangler and Gladi, and I'm not, I'm simply stating the percentage of owners that care about keeping a solid axle is probably not very high anymore. In fact, a lot of the folks I talked to who didn't buy a Gladi said one of the things they didn't like was how the solid axle drove on the highway. It's easy to think that the majority of owners are off roaders when thats the life we live and thats what we associate with, but what I see on the highways says otherwise. When I owned my Wranglers 20 years ago it was rare to come across one that wasn't at least lifted, but now it's less and less off roaders and more and more that want a Jeep just because its fun to drive around in and has this silly ducking cult following.

Also, I wouldn't say the only reason Jeep survives is the Wrangler fanbase. Id say Jeep survives because it's has a history of being the most capable vehicle and because they revolutionized 4x4 technology and lead the way for decades. The Jeep legacy is not the Wrangler, it's revolutionizing 4x4 technology. Over the years the Wrangler has developed a cult following and is a popular model, but the Grand Cherokee sees the highest sales of all Jeep models, roughly 35% more per yr compared to the Wrangler. Even the Wrangler and Gladiator sales combined didn't sell as much as the Grand Cherokee in 2024. Would Jeep fold if they stopped selling the Wrangler? Probably.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

I didn't say anything about buying a Jeep because of cost or reliability, I said MOST Wrangler and Gladiator owners these days didn't buy it for the solid axle and they don't care that it has a solid axle. I said the buyers that DO care about a solid axle probably make up a small portion of the market. Maybe it's just because of the area I live in (which I doubt because I see it everywhere when I travel), but 9 out of 10 Wranglers or Gladis I come across on the highway are bone stock and driven by non-off roading suburbia folk. Dashes full of ducks, fully stock, small skinny street tires. I see more and more college aged girls driving them every day, along with middle aged soccer moms.

With all that said, everyone seems to think I'm advocating for IFS in the Wrangler and Gladi, and I'm not, I'm simply stating the percentage of owners that care about keeping a solid axle is probably not very high anymore. In fact, a lot of the folks I talked to who didn't buy a Gladi said one of the things they didn't like was how the solid axle drove on the highway. It's easy to think that the majority of owners are off roaders when thats the life we live and thats what we associate with, but what I see on the highways says otherwise. When I owned my Wranglers 20 years ago it was rare to come across one that wasn't at least lifted, but now it's less and less off roaders and more and more that want a Jeep just because its fun to drive around in and has this silly ducking cult following.

Also, I wouldn't say the only reason Jeep survives is the Wrangler fanbase. Id say Jeep survives because it's has a history of being the most capable vehicle and because they revolutionized 4x4 technology and lead the way for decades. The Jeep legacy is not the Wrangler, it's revolutionizing 4x4 technology. Over the years the Wrangler has developed a cult following and is a popular model, but the Grand Cherokee sees the highest sales of all Jeep models, roughly 35% more per yr compared to the Wrangler. Even the Wrangler and Gladiator sales combined didn't sell as much as the Grand Cherokee in 2024. Would Jeep fold if they stopped selling the Wrangler? Probably.

I think we're saying basically the same thing. I think that the solid axle and the other mandatory features are what keeps the purists engaged with the Wrangler. The purists are an extremely small part of the buyers, however their enthusiasm is the biggest driver of Wrangler's, and the Jeep brand, popularity. The Wrangler is the only reason Jeep is still around. The other models only exist as long as the Wrangler exists. The Grand Cherokee would probably survive but would likely get absorbed into another brand

 

[Darth Rubicon]

I’m not brand loyal at all and just recently got my first Jeep. My last truck Was more modern but I didn’t care for it. It honestly created more problems. Install a cool front bumper? Now your adaptive cruise and collision alert doesn’t work right and throws codes. Want a lift? More specialized and not as my seller cost a lot more. Even after all my investment in my last truck I would still get stuck on moderate forest service roads. I knew what I was buying and don’t feel like a sucker one bit.

 

[Scotty mac]

It's a Jeep, not a Truck. Call it a truck if you want, you paid for it. It's my fun as hell everyday that I love, plus mine is a diesel!

 

[jmdwifi]

It's a Jeep, not a Truck. Call it a truck if you want, you paid for it. It's my fun as hell everyday that I love, plus mine is a diesel!

Pretty sure mine has a truck bed. It’s a truck, a small truck, but a truck nonetheless the less. For my needs, it’s perfect.

 

[VladtheGlad]

Edmonds just released a RAM 1500 I-6 vs the V-8 video, " Upgrade or Downgrade? The Ram 1500 V8 is Back, So We Tested It.". They clearly make my point on potential Jeep drivetrains. Again, no antiquated "lifestyle" V-8s for me. Been there, done that with a 2015 Ram 2500 6.4 Lariat, 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 LH Lariat and a 2022 Ram 1500 5.7 eTorque Limited. I love my 2023 diesel Glad, but I'm realistic about diesels - they just aren't in it for the long haul without a lot of attention and issues. I want to buy a NEW Gladiator in 2-3 years. Just me, of course.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Edmonds just released a RAM 1500 I-6 vs the V-8 video, " Upgrade or Downgrade? The Ram 1500 V8 is Back, So We Tested It.". They clearly make my point on potential Jeep drivetrains. Again, no antiquated "lifestyle" V-8s for me. Been there, done that with a 2015 Ram 2500 6.4 Lariat, 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 LH Lariat and a 2022 Ram 1500 5.7 eTorque Limited. I love my 2023 diesel Glad, but I'm realistic about diesels - they just aren't in it for the long haul without a lot of attention and issues. I want to buy a NEW Gladiator in 2-3 years. Just me, of course.

The TT I6 makes more power and is more efficient on paper... how efficient is it when it's broken though? How much power does it make when it's blown up? I'll trust the 5.7L well past 100k miles. If I were to experiment with the I6 it would go as soon as the warranty was up.

 

[VladtheGlad]

The TT I6 makes more power and is more efficient on paper... how efficient is it when it's broken though? How much power does it make when it's blown up? I'll trust the 5.7L well past 100k miles. If I were to experiment with the I6 it would go as soon as the warranty was up.

You Own aa antiquated 3.6 Pentastar V-6? Understood!

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