Replacement window switches - that are DIFFERENT ??

[Charles 236]

As I understand it, she can't reach under the switch and pull because she would have to twist her wrist to reach under the switch. This may sound like a crazy idea, but you can decide whether or not to look into it. How about pulling the switch bank out and remounting it upside down. This would fit in the stock opening, no wiring modifications needed, cost nothing but the time to do it. This would allow the switches to be pulled as needed without reaching under them, and they could still be pushed to lower the window. The downside to this is a short learning curve to remember that the lower right switch is now the driver's window switch instead of the upper left switch. Just an idea, maybe it helps. Good luck with the switch project.

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[Erievon]

As I understand it, she can't reach under the switch and pull because she would have to twist her wrist to reach under the switch. This may sound like a crazy idea, but you can decide whether or not to look into it. How about pulling the switch bank out and remounting it upside down. This would fit in the stock opening, no wiring modifications needed, cost nothing but the time to do it. This would allow the switches to be pulled as needed without reaching under them, and they could still be pushed to lower the window. The downside to this is a short learning curve to remember that the lower right switch is now the driver's window switch instead of the upper left switch. Just an idea, maybe it helps. Good luck with the switch project.

Woah...now there's a thought. Might even be able to re-pin the plug so everything is where it belongs.

 

[b-roc]

A couple of thoughts on how to approach this.

1) I am guessing that she only cares about the front driver's side window switch and that modifying all 4 in the current location might actually be more difficult for her to use than just modifying the front driver.
2) I am also not positive about how far to extend the switch horizontally to be ideal for her (both from a dexterity and from a leverage perspective). If you already have a good idea, then skip this, but you might want to drill a small hole in the middle of the light strip and then try a series of different length screws to see what she likes/prefers
3) Her preference for length will drive the best method of doing this, but one generalizable method that I like is whatever you want to extend the switch with should ideally be plastic. Then glue it in place (taking note of the rubberized issue with the switches that you noted above). Let the glue cure. Then heat 2 brads with a torch while holding them with small vise-grips and insert them through the extension and the switch. Then trim with a dremel and paint.

Things that you could use to extend the switch that I can think of or have used myself in the past: trim the business end off of an existing switch (or cannibalize your current one) ... or insert the brads or leave the screw from above and use one of the puddy type epoxies and form it roughly as desired and then fine-tune with a dremel and/or files ... add paint or a rubberized coating

There are a million ways to attack this ... hope this helps

 

[Charles 236]

Woah...now there's a thought. Might even be able to re-pin the plug so everything is where it belongs.

It might be possible, if the switches operate the same in all the different positions (that is, do they all have the same detents for the factory one touch express down or is that only on the switches for the front windows). I have never actually paid attention to it, but it is usually good to have things where the factory put them.

 

[Erievon]

It might be possible, if the switches operate the same in all the different positions (that is, do they all have the same detents for the factory one touch express down or is that only on the switches for the front windows). I have never actually paid attention to it, but it is usually good to have things where the factory put them.

Also a thought. Maybe simply moving left wire to right and right to left. Front two windows are now on the bottom with auto down, but they're at least on the correct side. I don't think it even cares about the ground wire, the ground is likely common. So possibly just a matter of repinning four wires.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Still stuck with the stiff switches with a short handle, just up-side-down.
Since the motion to lower or raise would be counter-intuitive, it would mean repinning of connectors.
The switches angle will mean more of an up-push than a natural straight or down push (since the switches are below the hand)
Looking at the example below, they'd each be moved down lower when turned around. They are each at the top of their space when in the stock position, they'd be at the bottom of their space if flipped.

If a person is going to go to the effort of remounting and rearranging the switches and them repinning the connector, it doesn't make much sense to me to keep the same switches, only up-side-down.

You could curve a finger in above each switch and pull down, but you'd need to reach down further and push upward in this situation. And you've moved each one down about 1", further away. You would absolutely need to use screws or pins to extend the switch handles outward.

The more I think of it, the more I'm going to see if I can find and hire someone to put rocker switches in one of these switch arrays.

Ground is most likely for the light (panel lamps).
There's no reason for the switches themselves to have a ground for functionality. There is for the panel lights.
There will be power to each, then a down and an up wire to each.
So each switch would have 3 wires - a common hot wire, and an up wire and a down wire.
The power or hot wire should be common to all.
Not sure how the lock switch works........

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I seem to remember JK switches being far less pressure to operate. I'm sure you'd have to fabricate something to bolt these in, I don't know if this box is bigger or smaller then ours, and probably re-pin the connector or get a pigtail, but...for 30 bux...maybe worth a look? Maybe even cheaper if you have a pick-a-part yard near you.

https://www.amazon.com/SWITCHDOCTOR-Window-Master-2011-2017-Wrangler/dp/B07S922N31

I checked the local yards - only 3 I could find that were "pick n pull" types, none of them had Wranglers in their inventory and their searches online literally froze when searching for Jeeps. Oddly, the inventory search only does the Jeeps like Compass, Cherokee and so on. They don't even list anything else online.
It's like I found a few years ago - they don't seem to get or keep Jeeps like Wranglers. But then, it's Des Moines, so nothing shocks me.

 

[Gren71]

If a person is going to go to the effort of remounting and rearranging the switches and them repinning the connector, it doesn't make much sense to me to keep the same switches, only up-side-down.

It may be the least expensive solution, albeit the most time consuming and cumbersome with all the wiring changes . Even if you dont re wire anything, re orienting the switches may make it easier for your wife, she would just have to "re learn" the switch functions. Thankfully they're not labeled so it would still have the OEM look. I realize that its a resistance problem with the switches them selves being tight that make it hard to operate. But perhaps the angle change would give her more leverage over the switches with out external modifications.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It may be the least expensive solution, albeit the most time consuming and cumbersome with all the wiring changes . Even if you dont re wire anything, re orienting the switches may make it easier for your wife, she would just have to "re learn" the switch functions. Thankfully they're not labeled so it would still have the OEM look. I realize that its a resistance problem with the switches them selves being tight that make it hard to operate. But perhaps the angle change would give her more leverage over the switches with out external modifications.

Like I said - it would be confusing as heck, and actually move them farther away.
Pulling downward would be ok up-side-down - still hard to pull, especially being an inch or so farther away from the driver, but then the other direction would be harder, trying to push with upward force which she doesn't have. So it's trading one problem for another.
I'd have to check to see if you can even plug the connector into the switch assembly on the top vs. the bottom like they are stock.

After seeing things in this thread and watching her try to operate the switches, I can't see doing anything other than replacing them.
So, I'm looking for SPDT momentary rocker switches, fairly shallow if possible and someone to hire to make the change to a used switch array.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It would seem the first thing to try is an extension on the switches. That's the least intrusive and destructive.

I contacted Jeep Junkie about the set of switches and the last few inches of the dash harness leading to the switches. Holy CRAP! I can buy NEW MOPAR switches and the whole harness for what they want! $350 bucks. You gotta be kidding!!!!
I can get something on eBay for under 100 (free shipping) and new switches for 129.
Maybe they misunderstood and think I want the whole set of power windows and all wiring and hardware!??!
I could almost get 3 new switch sets from Benny for that price.

I have a set of these coming later today - to see how easy it might be to extend the switches because they are made to fit over them ->

Those don't extend $&!# They are super thin. Other than color, can't tell they are there by feel.
Still, after seeing my wife try to operate the switches last night, there's nothing that can be done in the way of extending them out that will help.
It's just plain the act of lifting.
If they were push top to roll up, push bottom to roll down, like rocker switches mounted vertically in place of these, it would be fine. A push is fine - push in or push down works.
Lift motion not possible.
Pretend your arm is several inches shorter and you can't twist it out of the palm down orientation - it's impossible for you to turn your arm fingers or palm pointing up. No elbow, can't rotate arm, fingers down or to the left only.
Now try to operate the switches. Push or poke motion is fine. Lifting not possible.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Multiple monkey wrenches in the mix.
First, not one bit happy with the 3W window module. There was no QA done on these for sure, and electrically, anyone smart in electric work knows - fuse protects wiring, not the device.
So they run a 18-20 gauge power wire direct from the battery, across, into the cab, up under the dash where they put a 25 amp fuse in the wire right next to the module. Leaving several feet of unprotected, unfused 20 gauge power wire unprotected. Seriously? Then the fuse is stuck way up under the dash in a place where the steering column lower panel has to be removed to get to the fuse. And because the main harness for this is about 6" too short, you can't even get the fuse holder out to where you can reach it in the open.
Because the main harness is way too short, connecting the module is a pain in the ass because you have to reach in from the center to hold the connector through the hole in the dash, then from the other side of the structure, try to aim and push the module onto the connector.
I see a total lack of them even installing these themselves, no QA and no experience creating harnesses with fuses. You don't fuse clear inside at the device. You fuse outside at the power source.
Ah, but wait, there's more!
Whatever you do, do not install these on a 4xe. I know that's funny saying that in a JT forum because no such JT even exists (NOT in production, anyway)
Due to my issues with it - i looked for reviews and found 2 other people who had severe system electrical issues after installing that module. One said it cause their CEL to come on and stay on, another said they had to have multiple electrical issues sorted out, and now me - I can't charge the battery of the 4xe. I can't do anything with it because it says the hood is open. "Can't charge or condition battery, hood open". And when I plug it in, all error lights on the dash and on the charger connection start flashing and blinking like a Christmas tree.
So - stupid place for a fuse, electrically speaking and physically speaking, big fuse, tiny power feed, main harness way too short, and crashes the 4xe accord to 2 other people and now me.

The other monkey wrench - the window switches - I didn't really pay attention or realize - they are not simple SPDT NO (NO = Normally Open) momentary switches so I can't simply replace them with other switches.
They have 4 positions.
Neutral or center (off)
Up for window up
Down to first detent
Down to second detent.
So, screwed. Have to remove the module and get them to take it back and refund my money (not sure I want it on my JT seeing how poorly designed the harness is and their poor documentation) and my idea on rocker switches is out the door.

 

[Gren71]

@Threedom since you folks do a LOT of fab work and printing, any input or chance youd be able to help papa out here?

 

[Burghardphotography]

Multiple monkey wrenches in the mix.
First, not one bit happy with the 3W window module. There was no QA done on these for sure, and electrically, anyone smart in electric work knows - fuse protects wiring, not the device.
So they run a 18-20 gauge power wire direct from the battery, across, into the cab, up under the dash where they put a 25 amp fuse in the wire right next to the module. Leaving several feet of unprotected, unfused 20 gauge power wire unprotected. Seriously? Then the fuse is stuck way up under the dash in a place where the steering column lower panel has to be removed to get to the fuse. And because the main harness for this is about 6" too short, you can't even get the fuse holder out to where you can reach it in the open.
Because the main harness is way too short, connecting the module is a pain in the ass because you have to reach in from the center to hold the connector through the hole in the dash, then from the other side of the structure, try to aim and push the module onto the connector.
I see a total lack of them even installing these themselves, no QA and no experience creating harnesses with fuses. You don't fuse clear inside at the device. You fuse outside at the power source.
Ah, but wait, there's more!
Whatever you do, do not install these on a 4xe. I know that's funny saying that in a JT forum because no such JT even exists (NOT in production, anyway)
Due to my issues with it - i looked for reviews and found 2 other people who had severe system electrical issues after installing that module. One said it cause their CEL to come on and stay on, another said they had to have multiple electrical issues sorted out, and now me - I can't charge the battery of the 4xe. I can't do anything with it because it says the hood is open. "Can't charge or condition battery, hood open". And when I plug it in, all error lights on the dash and on the charger connection start flashing and blinking like a Christmas tree.
So - stupid place for a fuse, electrically speaking and physically speaking, big fuse, tiny power feed, main harness way too short, and crashes the 4xe accord to 2 other people and now me.

The other monkey wrench - the window switches - I didn't really pay attention or realize - they are not simple SPDT NO momentary switches so I can't simply replace them with other switches.
They have 4 positions.
Neutral or center (off)
Up for window up
Down to first detent
Down to second detent.
So, screwed. Have to remove the module and get them to take it back and refund my money (not sure I want it on my JT seeing how poorly designed the harness is and their poor documentation) and my idea on rocker switches is out the door.

ShadowsPapa, I’ve been lurking in the background of this thread to see how you have made progress. So if I am understanding where you’re at currently, your current solution needs a button that sticks out so she can press down with her finger trips, and press up with her fingernails, because of the limited wrist movement?

I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome which while not the same does limit mobility due to joint issues. I am well connected in the EDS community here and know some 3D printers. If you can provide me a rough idea of what her ideal switch would look like, I’ll 3D print them, test them and send them to you.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ShadowsPapa, I’ve been lurking in the background of this thread to see how you have made progress. So if I am understanding where you’re at currently, your current solution needs a button that sticks out so she can press down with her finger trips, and press up with her fingernails, because of the limited wrist movement?

I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome which while not the same does limit mobility due to joint issues. I am well connected in the EDS community here and know some 3D printers. If you can provide me a rough idea of what her ideal switch would look like, I’ll 3D print them, test them and send them to you.

A creative genius with design and printing would likely be a better solution than trying to totally rebuild a whole switch array, especially finding that these aren't just up/center/down switches.
If there was a way to design a lever that when pushed, could duplicate the up position.
Down is fine.
She would have to use a knuckle to push up. That's what she does now to push a switch in or down, to push one of the HVAC controls and so on - curl a finger as much as possible, use a knuckle.
Anything that could turn these into more of a rocker type - push for up, push a different part for down.
I doubt we even have a picture of her with her right hand showing. She's always made sure that if there's a camera in use, her right arm is hidden. Weeks before we met years ago, she had a guy she met through either a friend or some mail type thing come to her door. He was all prepped for a date. She opened the door, she said he saw her arms and made some excuse that he had to cancel.

I've got to see what I can to do get the thing driveable again since the 3w module has it all screwed up, and if I can get it to where it can charge, run and drive, I'll get back to switch ideas. She'll want her Jeep tomorrow - it's 5:30 now so you know what that means, A long late evening to sort out why this stupid module crashes 4xe's.

 

[Burghardphotography]

A creative genius with design and printing would likely be a better solution than trying to totally rebuild a whole switch array, especially finding that these aren't just up/center/down switches.
If there was a way to design a lever that when pushed, could duplicate the up position.
Down is fine.
She would have to use a knuckle to push up. That's what she does now to push a switch in or down, to push one of the HVAC controls and so on - curl a finger as much as possible, use a knuckle.
Anything that could turn these into more of a rocker type - push for up, push a different part for down.
I doubt we even have a picture of her with her right hand showing. She's always made sure that if there's a camera in use, her right arm is hidden. Weeks before we met years ago, she had a guy she met through either a friend or some mail type thing come to her door. He was all prepped for a date. She opened the door, she said he saw her arms and made some excuse that he had to cancel.

I've got to see what I can to do get the thing driveable again since the 3w module has it all screwed up, and if I can get it to where it can charge, run and drive, I'll get back to switch ideas. She'll want her Jeep tomorrow - it's 5:30 now so you know what that means, A long late evening to sort out why this stupid module crashes 4xe's.

Ok sounds good, I’ll take what you’ve said so far and see what I can come up with. Working on sourcing a broken window switch right now to scan and convert to an electronic rendering to base it off of. I’ll update here with any progress.

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