Official EcoDiesel Oil and Filter Recommendations

[biodiesel]

Based on the dozens and dozens of EcoDiesel UOA reports I've seen, Quaker State ranks the lowest on how well it holds up. If you're running Quaker State in the EcoDiesel, I would cut the oil change intervals to about 6,000-mile drain intervals. Even at 6,000 miles, the oil is already testing in the 5W-30 range. For whatever reason, the 3rd gen EcoDiesel is hard on oil. We're seeing a lot of shearing even with the good quality oils.

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[Tom C]

I’m not an oil expert. It’s strange to me that a diesel would run such a lightweight oil as 5W30. I guess I’m used to 15w40 in a diesel.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I’m not an oil expert. It’s strange to me that a diesel would run such a lightweight oil as 5W30. I guess I’m used to 15w40 in a diesel.

We run 5w40, but Kieth was pointing out thst the Qstate oil shears down to the equivalent of 5w30 in a short time, so change it early.

 

[22EcoDs]

Based on the dozens and dozens of EcoDiesel UOA reports I've seen, Quaker State ranks the lowest on how well it holds up. If you're running Quaker State in the EcoDiesel, I would cut the oil change intervals to about 6,000-mile drain intervals. Even at 6,000 miles, the oil is already testing in the 5W-30 range. For whatever reason, the 3rd gen EcoDiesel is hard on oil. We're seeing a lot of shearing even with the good quality oils.

If it's shit oil then how does it meet the spec ?

 

[CrazyCooter]

If it's shit oil then how does it meet the spec ?

They paid the licensing money?

Its the world we live in. We don't get to make the rules, but we better obey or pay the price......

 

[22EcoDs]

They paid the licensing money?

Its the world we live in. We don't get to make the rules, but we better obey or pay the price......

Interesting, so they pay to play but don't actually protect the engine as well as others who dont carry the magic number.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Interesting, so they pay to play but don't actually protect the engine as well as others who dont carry the magic number.

Obviously I don't know for sure how it really goes down, but that's how I speculate it works. Doesn't really matter what's best for the consumer, its about money and control! Otherwise....wouldn't all of these upscale manufacturers be able to print that spec on the bottle? Chrysler made the spec up, so they own it.

 

[biodiesel]

If it's shit oil then how does it meet the spec ?

I don't think FCA even knows what the spec should be. Some of the non-spec oils are holding up better than the spec'd oil. For example, the best oil that we've seen for the EcoDiesel is Amsoil, but it's not the Amsoil that meets FCA specs. The Pennzoil Euro, surprisingly, offers really good engine protection. It outperforms Motul in the UOA samples I've seen.

 

[22EcoDs]

I don't think FCA even knows what the spec should be. Some of the non-spec oils are holding up better than the spec'd oil. For example, the best oil that we've seen for the EcoDiesel is Amsoil, but it's not the Amsoil that meets FCA specs. The Pennzoil Euro, surprisingly, offers really good engine protection. It outperforms Motul in the UOA samples I've seen.

What about t6? I had great luck running that in other vehicles.

 

[Dougstdig]

That was probably @Maximus Gladius . His situation of him being in Canada and their weak consumer protection laws created a weird situation were FCA Canada just Carte Blanche said it was Amsoil ATF fluid he changed to because his transmission was already failing due to Glycol contamination. FCA Canada did not prove it was the fluid that failed. On the flip side Amsoil would not warranty their fluid as it was not proven it caused the fatal damage. I might be missing some other details, but his unique case was not a failure of Amsoil not backing their fluid as their fluid did not fail but fell into the gray area of FCA Canada fighting it and hanging their hat on the Amsoil Fluid not carrying whatever MS spec for the ZF ATF fluid that is OEM.

Had his situation happened in the USA, there is other Federal laws that would not have readily allowed FCA to just say the use of the Amsoil fluid was at fault without proving it.

It's really frustrating. I understand the business side of it on both fronts, but the consumer is the one left high and dry. While Amsoil isn't the only 100% synthetic out there, it is the one most local to us as other notables are from Europe. I like the history of it, but not the marketing or sales model, but it's all we have. I'm excited to get their juice in my differentials and in my mind like the possibilities of it in my crankcase as well, but would feel much better if I had a document I could save or have in my hand that shows their current spec exceeds the MS-12991...which I know nothing about. In the meantime, I still have 9-5qt jugs of the Penzoil that does meet the spec. ...but I'm due for axle and Xfer case service.

I have seen the ZF branded Tranny fluid. It's not cheap, because it's specialized...I guess. I really like the Transmission behind the 3.0 and want to make sure it lasts.

 

[Dougstdig]

Ya, I’m that guy and @Hootbro did a great explanation above.

I used Amsoil in the transmission that blew up at 32k kms but the transmission was contaminated with glycol and developed a whine at 20k, then oil analysis done at 24k kms showing the contamination and extreme levels of copper and iron in the MOPAR 8/9 Speed ATF. Tranny flushed then for AMSOIL and the internals blew up 8k later.

District Service Manager immediately voided my warranty and also included my entire drivetrain warranty if AMSOIL was used in any other component.

After 7.5 months with a dead truck and fighting FCA with a legal demand letter and emails I had to get Stellantis President/CEO and his executives involved. The 3 week investigation into the transmission was concluded with:
(1) “there was nothing wrong with the transmission and I should not have done an oil analysis”; glycol contamination was fine and the catastrophic levels of iron and copper was of no concern.
(2) FCA engineers contacted ZF in Germany and asked if AMSOIL ATF was an “equivalent” oil to MOPAR 8/9 Speed ATF and ZF said no it isn’t and AMSOIL is not approved.

AMSOIL senior management and legal team is very aware their Data Sheet is false and they had no permission from the ZF manufacturer to post compliance codes for the 850RE transmission.

AMSOIL is fully aware that their oil may not have destroyed my transmission but the use of it destroyed my warranty. Their legal team reached out to me to ask some questions and I was never contacted again.

See...yeah. My frustration reading what you had to go through is obviously NOTHING compared to what you had to go through with either the $$$ tied up in a vehicle you couldn't use or while going through this you were still making the payment. It's times like this that I get real quiet.

Back when I originally read your report on this, as I remember, others also indicated they had glycol contamination at strangely high levels. Though I'm no more than a shade tree mechanic, I can't for the life of me, figure out but 2 possibilities. The first, which doesn't really seem plausible, would be someone actually putting it in the system during the one of the manufacturing processes. The other would be some type of leak in the radiator where the Transmission lines run through for parasitic colling. I'm not aware of separate dedicated coolers for the transmission from the factory...meaning if they do have one outside the radiator, it's an additional unit.

The process sucks, either way, you the consumer suffered and were the one left high and dry. I hate that. I'm in the insurance industry with a current specialty in litigation. I ALWAYS look for ways to find ambiguity and when possible, lean toward the behalf of the customer. It just makes sense.

 

[Dougstdig]

What about t6? I had great luck running that in other vehicles.

I use this in my 08 Ram, but wouldn't get it near my JTRD.

 

[Cwg33]

Let’s be honest. I pay to play in most situations in life. Have I used Amsoil previously? Absolutely. Have I ever had issue with them? No.

But, have they had to back me up, or did they pay to to fight Stellantis? No. It’s up to us as the consumer to assess risk. I personally no longer feel Amsoil is worth it, unless I have endless funds and knowledgeable lawyer on retainer.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

See...yeah. My frustration reading what you had to go through is obviously NOTHING compared to what you had to go through with either the $$$ tied up in a vehicle you couldn't use or while going through this you were still making the payment. It's times like this that I get real quiet.

Back when I originally read your report on this, as I remember, others also indicated they had glycol contamination at strangely high levels. Though I'm no more than a shade tree mechanic, I can't for the life of me, figure out but 2 possibilities. The first, which doesn't really seem plausible, would be someone actually putting it in the system during the one of the manufacturing processes. The other would be some type of leak in the radiator where the Transmission lines run through for parasitic colling. I'm not aware of separate dedicated coolers for the transmission from the factory...meaning if they do have one outside the radiator, it's an additional unit.

The process sucks, either way, you the consumer suffered and were the one left high and dry. I hate that. I'm in the insurance industry with a current specialty in litigation. I ALWAYS look for ways to find ambiguity and when possible, lean toward the behalf of the customer. It just makes sense.

Thank you for the empathy you shared in the silence you feel.

I can help you with the 2 possible points of entry glycol could have gained access.

(1) the transmission assembly plant uses glycol as a “tooling wash” to rid the internals of “klinkers”. This debris is then washed out of the assembly plant and into large filter containers the size of a semi trailer. The glycol goes through a cleaning process and sent back into the plant to be reused.

There must be a process once the glycol is used that it is also washed out or removed somehow and my transmission either missed this step OR a disgruntled employee put some glycol in there. It only takes a teaspoon of it to wipe out a transmission. This, I wrote into my complaint to FCA to investigate.

(2) the transmission has a “heater unit” the size of a large wallet that the engine coolant is piped in to heat the transmission and get it up to operating temps and it was thought by the last dealership that IF glycol was in the transmission, the heater unit would have an internal crack in it and the service manager requested the truck be towed in so they could run some tests. He asked me “why didn’t the first dealership or the DSM not ask how did glycol get in there in the first place?”

The heater unit was pulled out and pressure tests both air and fluid, hot and cold were performed. NOTHING WRONG with the unit. The service manager wrote in the report the heater unit was sound and that the only way glycol got in there was to have been intentionally put in there.

I took his report and filed a vandalism claim with my insurance company and it was approved and replaced.

 

[Dougstdig]

Thank you for the empathy you shared in the silence you feel.

I can help you with the 2 possible points of entry glycol could have gained access.

(1) the transmission assembly plant uses glycol as a “tooling wash” to rid the internals of “klinkers”. This debris is then washed out of the assembly plant and into large filter containers the size of a semi trailer. The glycol goes through a cleaning process and sent back into the plant to be reused.

There must be a process once the glycol is used that it is also washed out or removed somehow and my transmission either missed this step OR a disgruntled employee put some glycol in there. It only takes a teaspoon of it to wipe out a transmission. This, I wrote into my complaint to FCA to investigate.

(2) the transmission has a “heater unit” the size of a large wallet that the engine coolant is piped in to heat the transmission and get it up to operating temps and it was thought by the last dealership that IF glycol was in the transmission, the heater unit would have an internal crack in it and the service manager requested the truck be towed in so they could run some tests. He asked me “why didn’t the first dealership or the DSM not ask how did glycol get in there in the first place?”

The heater unit was pulled out and pressure tests both air and fluid, hot and cold were performed. NOTHING WRONG with the unit. The service manager wrote in the report the heater unit was sound and that the only way glycol got in there was to have been intentionally put in there.

I took his report and filed a vandalism claim with my insurance company and it was approved and replaced.

Very interesting. While not my area of insurance, very interesting nonetheless and am thrilled the ins. co. stood up for you.

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