First real tow with the manual.....not good

[Technomancer]

Probably the same reasons so many other things are unavailable, out of stock, and so on - supply issues, possible supply chain issues.
We aren't out of that situation yet - it's just better than it was.
There is still a lot of readjusting going on in the world.
Heck, some web sites showed the 0w20 MOPAR oil as being unavailable.

Normal flow of things -
World is operating ok, you can get stuff, prices decent, trucks, trains and ships all flowing normal and ports operating normally.
Pandemic and/or war - crazy readjustments to all of the above.
Pandemic over but war taking different turns - a long period of readjustment. A pandemic or emergency may last for 2 years but the aftermath may linger for years after those 2 years.
A switch doesn't flip - we transition to a new world.

Makes sense, I guess I was more worried it was an issue with the product and it was removed or something. I’ll just keep a lookout for it. Thanks for the info!

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[ShadowsPapa]

The towing weight restrictions with the manual vs. the automatic was not due to differences in engine output, as the engines are identical, it's that Jeep knew that the clutch they used was the weak point and would die very quickly towing the same loads as the automatic trans would.

I'd imagine that even with the upgrade from factory to something like a Center Force would MAYBE get another thousand pounds of towing capacity before it went to clutch heaven (or hell ).

So, the limit with the manual is set purely based on mechanical (in)ability and potential longevity of that part.

There's a reason many people tow with automatics and not sticks........... the clutch.
You are asking it to put a much heavier rolling load into motion while the clutch is slipping as you release it. You are also asking it to handle that moving load as you shift - and the clutch as a lot more work to do between gears towing than when not towing. You basically double the load on the clutch. Granted, it's a rolling load once moving but any shifting, any time you take off, it's asking a whole lot more of that clutch. And it's not got the choices for ratios to match engine speed to road speed as a modern automatic. I stopped buying manual transmissions for towing long ago for that reason. Having worked in shops - pickups that towed or hauled campers, even truck bed campers, the clutch work came in at a lot lower mileage than typical trucks. When you shift, that clutch is working harder when pulling a load, and it's harder for it to take off.
The automatic has torque amplification when taking off - a stick doesn't. It must start out trying to match engine speed with a stationary truck rig.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Makes sense, I guess I was more worried it was an issue with the product and it was removed or something. I’ll just keep a lookout for it. Thanks for the info!

I've had mine in a 2020 since 2020, and now it's in my 2022 - performs flawlessly. I've not yet seen any reports of issues with them. It's a decent unit.

 

[Technomancer]

I've had mine in a 2020 since 2020, and now it's in my 2022 - performs flawlessly. I've not yet seen any reports of issues with them. It's a decent unit.

Awesome, that’s what I like to hear. I’m glad it has worked well for you.

 

[ReconGladiator]

I simply find the gears on my manual after 1-2 are too tall. I can't keep 55 on mild grades uphill in 5th at all on the highway. I also find engine compression braking/holdback on the manual JT stinks. 3rd gear doesn't hold back at all downhill and really, 2nd doesn't either, the revs just run up over 3000 and I have to brake. Downshifting doesn't slow you for an upcoming stop much at all. I bought manual for these features and am disappointed. I get better engine compression holdback from my automatic 2001 Tahoe!

I just bought a 2022 Mojave manual with the stock 33s and it's an absolute dog. Ive had it for just over 1000 miles and am looking to trade it for an automatic. I love the truck but HATE the manual tranny. When I bought it I picked the manual because I thought it would be more beastly than the automatic. Man was I wrong. Im avoiding towing my empty open 16 foot trailer. Huge let down......

 

[81Mojave]

Jeep if you’re listening, give us a better solution here!

 

[dcmdon]

That is hard to believe seeing as its the same 3.6!! The manual trans in theory should be better as the parasitic loss is less. I would think the auto 8 speed has a little advantage in gearing selection ( I wish I had a ratio between 3rd and 4th) But I'm still stuck on I couldn't make any progress even running the rpms well into the "sweet spot" I could see if I were stock gearing but, with 5.13's that should offset the difference. I did contemplate having 35's to put on to pull, but we honestly wont pull that often with it. Plus I'm not super comfy with running at 4500 rpm for 4 hrs.

There isn't any parasitic loss if the TCM decides to lock the torque converter. It unlocks it when it benefits you. Bottom line is the AT is like an MT where you can slip the clutch as much as you want to get the motor into its power.

The Gladiator is only the 2nd AT vehicle I've owned in roughly 40 years of driving. So I'm not anti MT. But there really isn't ANY reason to buy a MT vehicle anymore other than romance. None.

You also need to update your perception of what is difficult for a modern engine. 4500 RPM for DAYS is a piece of cake. Back in the 90s both Subaru and Saab did endurance runs where their cars ran flat out at Taladega, turning at or close to redline for SIXTY THOUSAND MILES. (Specifically Saab picked 3 cars from the production line and ran them for 100,000 km at an average speed of a bit over 130 mph. This average speed includes pit stops.

I have no reason to doubt the pentastar couldn't do the same thing.

 

[dcmdon]

Jeep if you’re listening, give us a better solution here!

It exists. It's called the Automatic Transmission.

When I'm towing,If I'm on the highway I'll actually use the manual function in the AT and pick a gear that feels right. By that, the highest gear that lets the truck maintain speed up hills without having to townshift. So it depends on the load and the terrain.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There isn't any parasitic loss if the TCM decides to lock the torque converter. It unlocks it when it benefits you.

And there hasn't been for some time. People are stuck on the prejudices of the past and old technology.
In fact, modern automatics actually typically get better mpg (I said typically)
But for towing there's nothing better.
I've had trucks of all types, many many sticks, cars and trucks. I'll drive and like either, but for towing, nothing beats an automatic and that's been for quite a while now. It's all about the love affair with the stick and how manly it makes folks feel, totally in control (often not doing the best thing but they'll tell you they know all there is)
You could never maneuver a trailer where I've had to with a clutch without getting it hot. An automatic has that torque converter giving you MORE torque at low speeds and can move as slow as you need without taxing any parts.

 

[hjdca]

And there hasn't been for some time. People are stuck on the prejudices of the past and old technology.
In fact, modern automatics actually typically get better mpg (I said typically)
But for towing there's nothing better.
I've had trucks of all types, many many sticks, cars and trucks. I'll drive and like either, but for towing, nothing beats an automatic and that's been for quite a while now. It's all about the love affair with the stick and how manly it makes folks feel, totally in control (often not doing the best thing but they'll tell you they know all there is)
You could never maneuver a trailer where I've had to with a clutch without getting it hot. An automatic has that torque converter giving you MORE torque at low speeds and can move as slow as you need without taxing any parts.

Automatics have always been better for towing. It has always been that way. The torque convertor is a game changer for towing. That said, many people like me prefer to drive manual transmissions and have driven them all their lives. For some reason, I find driving more enjoyable with a manual transmission. It is as simple as that. That said, back in the day, many people had to tow with manuals, how did they do it ? --- by ordering lower rear gears from the Factory. If you want to tow with a manual Gladiator, you need lower gears. Lower than 4:10s with 33s, more like 4:56 ---- 35s better go with 4:88s... 37s you need 5:13s or 5:38s. and what ever gears are recommended for an automatic for towing, go down one step more for an manual transmission towing an average load, and better go down two steps more for a manual transmission towing a heavy load.. A manual transmission cannot make up for lack of a torque convertor while towing, but, lower gears can help alot and this is the solution that has been used since cars were invented.
The clutch can also become an issue with towing, just like towing can drastically reduce the life of an automatic transmission. Even with tranny coolers, towing a boat regularly drastically reduces the life of an automatic transmission. In general, when towing with a manual transmission, you need a heavy duty clutch more suited for towing. It has always been that way, so, it is not a surprise that Gladiators need a heavier duty clutch when towing regularly.

 

[81Mojave]

Yes modern ATs can be superior for towing and shift faster ect. No human can out drive an AT, with the exception of thinking ahead.
The AT cannot make up for the expectations that the 3.6 NA motor can’t meet.
Personally I feel the 3.6 is great option for a 2 door JL, but with any transmission it’s underwhelming in the JT. Disappointing because It’s not a cheap truck and lifts tires ect it only make it worse worse.

 

[Justins_JT]

My point remains, I could not down shift enough to maintain speed on a grade. regardless of rpm.

I know what you’re saying. My first trip to Colorado and it had no guts at all. I could not maintain 45 going up the pass outside of Denver. I added a throttle controller and set it to maximum and that helped a lot the next time we went.

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