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First real tow with the manual.....not good

AustinL911

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I've never looked into the tuning options for this engine. Does any software out there have the ability to datalog? Might be interesting.
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Zachattack50

Zachattack50

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I've never looked into the tuning options for this engine. Does any software out there have the ability to datalog? Might be interesting.
Thats what I am thinking too. If its only letting 70% throttle that would explain alot.
 

AustinL911

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Thats what I am thinking too. If its only letting 70% throttle that would explain alot.
If it turns out to be the case that they are pulling power all the time and not just when it "senses" a hot clutch, I will be livid. I paid for the HP/TQ, I expect to be able to use all of it. Even if that means I have to put an aftermarket clutch in it to do so.
 
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Zachattack50

Zachattack50

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If it turns out to be the case that they are pulling power all the time and not just when it "senses" a hot clutch, I will be livid. I paid for the HP/TQ, I expect to be able to use all of it. Even if that means I have to put an aftermarket clutch in it to do so.
Aftermarket clutch already in. Far superior to the stock setup.
 

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Zachattack50

Zachattack50

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Ah you must be one of those that think they have to get their parts from the dealer and dealer prices. Good for you lol
Guys, knock it off, crap like this makes actually getting to the bottom of things annoying.
 

bd100

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the throttle body is not even opening 100%
Some vehicles have a throttle calibration procedure. Something like turn to run but don't start the engine, slowly press the throttle to the floor, slowly release, maybe do that several times, etc. Maybe worth researching.

And check the air cleaner. Some people get tree seeds or animal nests or such in them.
 

Iowafarm

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I think the take away here is, these modern v6 motors are a high rpm motor, you want power you need to make them sing in the upper range. they are not low reving lugger motors.
That is the trouble I have with my manual. Spent to much time in a Peterbilt trying to keep the rpms low, hard adjustment to make.
 

stampedingTurtles

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Ok, lets try to stay on topic.... As far as the tent and rack goes, I listed the weights in the first post as I was overly concerned with the weight on this first trip. I was at or under the recommended capacity and tongue weight....
Just a question, are the weights you listed the actual (as in you weighed the whole rig as it was loaded up and ready to roll) weights, or the "curb" or "dry" weights for the trailer and SxS? . And what about camping gear and anything else you had in the trailer/truck? How many people were in the truck? Just based on my personal experience, it seems like people are always taking the empty weights for trailers and dry weights for the things they put in them, and also forgetting about the tank full of gas in the SXS, the weight they added to their "empty" trailer (hardware you installed, tie downs, spare tire and mount for the trailer, storage cabinet you hung up in the front, etc), the extra gas cans and all the other things they put in the trailer (and all the accessories they added to the SxS/motorcycle or whatever toy they've got in the trailer). In my personal experience, any time someone gives the weight for a loaded trailer and they've come to that number by adding up the what they put in it (instead of actually weighing) it seems like they're under by at least 20%.

A google search is telling me the GCWR of a 2022 Gladiator Sport manual transmission is 9100 lbs, and the GTW is 4000 lbs. With the weights you gave for the trailer and SxS, you are absolutely at the max. Then you've got the tent and rack, plus the extra weight of your wheels and tires, plus looking at your picture it looks like you've got a big steel bumper, your lift kit likely added some weight. You simply had to be well over the 9100 GCWR with the rig as pictured in your first post; almost certainly over 10,000, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you were over 11,000.

I'm not sure of the frontal area of your trailer, but I'm sure it is well over the 40 square foot max (how tall is it? Looks quite a bit taller than your jeep). So now we're pulling a trailer well over the max frontal area, with a total weight well over the GCWR...with a vehicle that has been modified in ways that significantly reduced the towing capacity...
 
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Zachattack50

Zachattack50

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Just a question, are the weights you listed the actual (as in you weighed the whole rig as it was loaded up and ready to roll) weights, or the "curb" or "dry" weights for the trailer and SxS? . And what about camping gear and anything else you had in the trailer/truck? How many people were in the truck? Just based on my personal experience, it seems like people are always taking the empty weights for trailers and dry weights for the things they put in them, and also forgetting about the tank full of gas in the SXS, the weight they added to their "empty" trailer (hardware you installed, tie downs, spare tire and mount for the trailer, storage cabinet you hung up in the front, etc), the extra gas cans and all the other things they put in the trailer (and all the accessories they added to the SxS/motorcycle or whatever toy they've got in the trailer). In my personal experience, any time someone gives the weight for a loaded trailer and they've come to that number by adding up the what they put in it (instead of actually weighing) it seems like they're under by at least 20%.

A google search is telling me the GCWR of a 2022 Gladiator Sport manual transmission is 9100 lbs, and the GTW is 4000 lbs. With the weights you gave for the trailer and SxS, you are absolutely at the max. Then you've got the tent and rack, plus the extra weight of your wheels and tires, plus looking at your picture it looks like you've got a big steel bumper, your lift kit likely added some weight. You simply had to be well over the 9100 GCWR with the rig as pictured in your first post; almost certainly over 10,000, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you were over 11,000.

I'm not sure of the frontal area of your trailer, but I'm sure it is well over the 40 square foot max (how tall is it? Looks quite a bit taller than your jeep). So now we're pulling a trailer well over the max frontal area, with a total weight well over the GCWR...with a vehicle that has been modified in ways that significantly reduced the towing capacity...
Just my wife and I, one cooler, two back packs. Actual weight of the equipment. My point still is, I don't buy for a second the only factor from the manual tow rating to the auto tow rating is the trans. Its the same 3.6 allegedly, UNLESS, they use a totally different tune. There's no way that going to an auto magically produces more power from the power mill. Mechanical advatage, yes, but thats been covered. I should be able to select a low enough gear to produce power to move the load. I cannot, that leads me to believe the ratings are grossly inflated at best.
Still no one has brought up the lack of response to pedal position under load. You auto guys, at cruise when you put the boot to it, does it create an audible change? I get zero respons on the last half of my pedal travel, in 3rd, or 4th, just dead.
Air filter is mint btw.
Food for thought, my 1985 k20, with the original 200hp, 350 drags this trailor no problem. With double the trailor frontage exposed. Not adding up.
 

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stampedingTurtles

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Just my wife and I, one cooler, two back packs. Actual weight of the equipment.
I just want to make this absolutely clear, you weighed your trailer and sxs as part of this process?

So 500 lbs or in the truck in addition to the 250 lbs of the tent and rack?

What does the truck itself weigh?
My point still is, I don't buy for a second the only factor from the manual tow rating to the auto tow rating is the trans. Its the same 3.6 allegedly, UNLESS, they use a totally different tune. There's no way that going to an auto magically produces more power from the power mill. Mechanical advatage, yes, but thats been covered.
Covered, but then something you seem to ignore the impact of (as you seem to be ignoring the impact of exceeding the tow capacity and frontal area rating, along with the impact the the larger tires, lift, and aerodynamic impact of changing the front bumper).

I should be able to select a low enough gear to produce power to move the load. I cannot, that leads me to believe the ratings are grossly inflated at best.
Still no one has brought up the lack of response to pedal position under load. You auto guys, at cruise when you put the boot to it, does it create an audible change? I get zero respons on the last half of my pedal travel, in 3rd, or 4th, just dead.
This is really tough to address because it is such a subjective thing; also in the auto if you mash the pedal it is going to create an audible change...when it downshifts to a lower gear (probably 3rd?) and pushes the RPMS up into the powerband.

But in other manual transmission vehicles I've experienced a bit of what you are describing (not as dramatic as half the pedal travel) if you are on the low end of the vehicles powerband; so for example if in 4th gear the engine is turning 3200 rpm you can push the pedal to a point where the engine is sucking pretty much all the air it can through the intake, and opening up the throttle further just doesn't do much. Sort of like how if you just took your throttle body off and put on a bigger one, it isn't necessarily going to make much more power if the original throttle body is already "big enough".

Now, in 3rd that makes a bit less sense as you should be turning significantly higher RPM and should be getting up higher into the engines poweband.
Food for thought, my 1985 k20, with the original 200hp, 350 drags this trailor no problem.
The much larger V8 in that truck produced a pretty flat torque curve, so it was producing significantly more torque at the RPM it was turning (those old V8s tended to produce max torque fairly low in the RPM range, that thing probably pumped out more torque from 1500 RPM up than the gladiator will at peak). Also, if your K20 was a manual and geared like my old Chevy pickups (4 speed "granny low" SM465), it's top gear (4th) would be equivalent to 4th in the manual gladiator, its 3rd would be lower than the gladiator's 3rd (I'll note here that depending on the truck, the gear shift may have been labeled L,1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4). Also, did that K20 have tires as big and heavy as your Gladiator does?

With double the trailor frontage exposed. Not adding up.
I think there's a misunderstanding here about the the frontal area, it isn't just the amount of "exposed" frontal area of the trailer that matters, it is the total frontal area. You don't subtract the area that the truck covers; the only difference in whether it is the truck's frontal area vs the trailer's frontal area is whatever difference there is in the aerodynamics between the truck and the trailer (and honestly that trailer with its little V front is probably more aerodynamic than your jeep, especially with the stubby bumper; you've basically got giant scoops on each side shoveling air into the wheel wells).
 

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I think there's a misunderstanding here about the the frontal area, it isn't just the amount of "exposed" frontal area of the trailer that matters, it is the total frontal area. You don't subtract the area that the truck covers; the only difference in whether it is the truck's frontal area vs the trailer's frontal area is whatever difference there is in the aerodynamics between the truck and the trailer (and honestly that trailer with its little V front is probably more aerodynamic than your jeep, especially with the stubby bumper; you've basically got giant scoops on each side shoveling air into the wheel wells).
Jeep Gladiator First real tow with the manual.....not good 1687490060223


Correct, total area, not exposed area.
I noticed mpg on my Jeeps dropped with the bumper in "stubby mode", and frankly, with the plastic bumper, air dam and filler strip it was better as well. When I stripped my 2020 to trade it and put the stock parts back on, MPG went up again.

I mention MPG because that's a direct indicator of the "power" needed to move the vehicle. If you do something, make some change to a vehicle and your MPG drops it's an indication you are forcing it to work harder to accomplish the same task. That would make it more difficult for it to tow. It's a direct relationship.
 
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Labswine

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The towing weight restrictions with the manual vs. the automatic was not due to differences in engine output, as the engines are identical, it's that Jeep knew that the clutch they used was the weak point and would die very quickly towing the same loads as the automatic trans would.

I'd imagine that even with the upgrade from factory to something like a Center Force would MAYBE get another thousand pounds of towing capacity before it went to clutch heaven (or hell :CWL: ).

So, the limit with the manual is set purely based on mechanical (in)ability and potential longevity of that part.
 

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Does anyone know why the Mopar brake controller is unavailable? I've checked several websites and they all say unavailable...
 

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Does anyone know why the Mopar brake controller is unavailable? I've checked several websites and they all say unavailable...
Probably the same reasons so many other things are unavailable, out of stock, and so on - supply issues, possible supply chain issues.
We aren't out of that situation yet - it's just better than it was.
There is still a lot of readjusting going on in the world.
Heck, some web sites showed the 0w20 MOPAR oil as being unavailable.

Normal flow of things -
World is operating ok, you can get stuff, prices decent, trucks, trains and ships all flowing normal and ports operating normally.
Pandemic and/or war - crazy readjustments to all of the above.
Pandemic over but war taking different turns - a long period of readjustment. A pandemic or emergency may last for 2 years but the aftermath may linger for years after those 2 years.
A switch doesn't flip - we transition to a new world.
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