Ecodiesel Oil Analysis - updated 11/23/23

[Hootbro]

How long did it take you to get your results? It's been 2 weeks since I sent my sample in.

For the longest time, it was 2 weeks I would have results back from time sample was mailed. Last one took 3 1/2 weeks. I do not know if it is slower mail getting there or if Blackstone is backed up and taking longer?

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[Maximus Gladius]

One other member here has their oil analysis done at FINNING CANADA and their Potassium levels are also highlighted. They have a 3.6L but the lab tech had this to say about the high potassium…
“POTASSIUM MAY ALSO BE ASSOCIATED WITH EXTERNAL CONTAMINANTS (FLY ASH, WASH SOLUTIONS, DIRT, GREASES ETC) OR OIL FORMULATION/ SUPPLEMENTAL ADDITIVES.”

The first concern the lab looked at was coolant consumption but the glytech test proved negative so then the additional comment from them was made where else potassium comes from.

Maybe over in NY you’ve been seeing Smokey skies (ASH) from the Alberta/BC fires??
Edit: fly ash contributed to coal factories, air borne particulates… maybe a dirty air filter??

 

[biodiesel]

The aluminum and iron wear metals are high on the 3rd gen EcoDiesel. Below is my UOA report from a 2020 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. It is believed that the aluminum is due to a combination of low-tension piston rings and an offset wrist pin. A high mileage teardown is needed to see wear on piston skirts. I'll be pulling another sample next month.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It is believed that the aluminum is due to a combination of low-tension piston rings and an offset wrist pin.

Odd because offset wrist pins have been used for many decades - way back, in fact. Nothing new, and is a normal practice to allow lighter, shorter pistons, less noise when cold and so on.

I'd be interested in knowing why low tension rings would contribute to aluminum since it's, well, less pressure from the rings themselves gliding over the oil on the cylinder wall as they move back up. The pressure on the combustion stroke would be the same since the tension there is generated by the combustion gases/pressures working behind the ring forcing it outward, sealing against the cylinder wall, scraping oil off as they go down.
The up-stroke would mean less tension as the rings would glide back up over the oil film and not against the aluminum cylinder wall.
So - would love to hear why low tension rings would mean more aluminum wear, not less. The idea behind them is less friction on exhaust, intake and compression strokes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

One other member here has their oil analysis done at FINNING CANADA and their Potassium levels are also highlighted. They have a 3.6L but the lab tech had this to say about the high potassium…
“POTASSIUM MAY ALSO BE ASSOCIATED WITH EXTERNAL CONTAMINANTS (FLY ASH, WASH SOLUTIONS, DIRT, GREASES ETC) OR OIL FORMULATION/ SUPPLEMENTAL ADDITIVES.”

Potassium is sometimes as high as 12ppm in new oil as it's an anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor.
Royal Purple loves to blend it into their oil at pretty high levels (not an oil I'd use, but whatever)
Mobil 1, Quaker State, Amsoil and Pennzoil are often around 4ppm right out of the bottle, others may be much higher.
So one may need to have a baseline sample.
(as you alluded to in your "....OR OIL FORMULATION....." )

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I looked back in my oil analysis reports to Feb 7, 2022 when I asked the lab to give me a potassium reading on my coolant consuming engine (10 - 12 ounces coolant every 10k kms) and the lab came back to say my potassium level was at 1.2ppm.
The lab I use in Calgary doesn’t have potassium listed in their line up on the sheet so they did me an extra solid by running a potassium test.

If the OP is seeing 19ppm and he’s not pouring gallons of coolant in his system to keep it topped up, his engine is just ridding itself of the assembly lubes and greases that contain super high levels of potassium and the more oil changes he does, the lower that level will be.

I’ve been helping a member here deal with a rebuild on her 3.6 after 100k kms and her first concern was after that rebuild she was having to top up the coolant and I suggested they get an oil analysis report.

FINNING Canada has done 3 reports since. First report, potassium level read 413ppm! Chromium (12ppm), Aluminum (20ppm), Iron (114ppm), Silicon (64ppm). The report looked like a disaster! Focus was on a bad rebuild job and they might have a coolant leak.

We’ll jump ahead now about 10k kms and 2 oil changes and those numbers are now:
Potassium 64ppm, Chromium 4ppm, Aluminum 7ppm, Iron 34ppm, Silicon 19ppm.
Downward trending nice. No coolant leak.

They now believe those high numbers after the rebuild was just the internal condition was left very dirty but the assembly lubes had super high potassium levels

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If the OP is seeing 19ppm and he’s not pouring gallons of coolant in his system to keep it topped up, his engine is just ridding itself of the assembly lubes and greases that contain super high levels of potassium and the more oil changes he does, the lower that level will be.

But he's already at 21K miles - he shouldn't be seeing elevated much of anything.

Granted, mine is a gas engine, but my report is 4ppm, average for the gas is 3. Likely the oil in my engine has 4 or so from the bottle.

Assembly lube is long gone by now in mine - and would be way gone in his so frankly, assembly lube shouldn't even be mentioned on a 20K miles engine. It's washed away fast by hot oil.
I don't know why it's even discussed after the first oil change.
If mine is 4 - why would his at double the miles be 5 times that?
It's not a necessary part of oil or assembly lube. There's no reason for it to be there other than what I stated before....... antifreeze corrosion inhibiter.

This is from a maker of such "assembly lubes" (and potassium isn't even mentioned)
Once the engine is running and oil pressure builds up, the lube dissolves in the motor oil. It leaves leaves little to no trace of its existence.

Potassium in assembly lube? And after 20K miles?

this from "Machinery Lubrication" - specializing in diesel engines -
On the other hand, potassium has only one real major source when found in engine oil — antifreeze.

Other than what the oil formulation contains, or if someone actually adds additives (not a good idea) could be in that. But high numbers - I question that.

Highest number I've seen in an engine oil was 14 out of the bottle, some have <1ppm

Assembly lube would be oil made sticky by using greases to make it stay in place long-term. No potassium needed.

From a diesel engine site -
And elevated levels of sodium and potassium might exist because some exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) coolers don't immediately seal

 

[@californiajeeping]

But he's already at 21K miles - he shouldn't be seeing elevated much of anything.

Granted, mine is a gas engine, but my report is 4ppm, average for the gas is 3. Likely the oil in my engine has 4 or so from the bottle.

Assembly lube is long gone by now in mine - and would be way gone in his so frankly, assembly lube shouldn't even be mentioned on a 20K miles engine. It's washed away fast by hot oil.
I don't know why it's even discussed after the first oil change.
If mine is 4 - why would his at double the miles be 5 times that?
It's not a necessary part of oil or assembly lube. There's no reason for it to be there other than what I stated before....... antifreeze corrosion inhibiter.

This is from a maker of such "assembly lubes" (and potassium isn't even mentioned)
Once the engine is running and oil pressure builds up, the lube dissolves in the motor oil. It leaves leaves little to no trace of its existence.

Potassium in assembly lube? And after 20K miles?

this from "Machinery Lubrication" - specializing in diesel engines -
On the other hand, potassium has only one real major source when found in engine oil — antifreeze.

Other than what the oil formulation contains, or if someone actually adds additives (not a good idea) could be in that. But high numbers - I question that.

Highest number I've seen in an engine oil was 14 out of the bottle, some have <1ppm

Assembly lube would be oil made sticky by using greases to make it stay in place long-term. No potassium needed.

From a diesel engine site -
And elevated levels of sodium and potassium might exist because some exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) coolers don't immediately seal

I believe there are coolants in the machine process that may also have potassium. Could all those lubricants/coolants in the metals/coolers be leeching slowly? I would assume hot oil would wash away all of the coolant from machining/cleaning quickly?

 

[Gezer]

Are you guys doing the analysis to check different oil and filter combos or to keep an eye on the engine general health. Should I be doing the same now and then.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Are you guys doing the analysis to check different oil and filter combos or to keep an eye on the engine general health. Should I be doing the same now and then.

I do it to prove I did my oil changes and to watch how the wearing is doing and trending. It will always tell you if something isn’t right like an internal coolant leak or if your air filter is dirty or the oil cap isn’t seating properly. That’s just the engine.

You can do these reports on every component that runs on oil. Having these reports is also a great info to show a potential buyer how well you took care of the vehicle.

If you’re buying one used, doing these reports may show you that vehicle was not maintained well and not a good buy.

 

[biodiesel]

Are you guys doing the analysis to check different oil and filter combos or to keep an eye on the engine general health. Should I be doing the same now and then.

I'm checking for reliability. We live in a rural area, drive in remote places, travel long distances, and do a lot of towing. The EcoDiesel has a B10 life of 150,000 miles, which means that these engines are built to handle 150,000 miles for a full useful life. After 150,000 miles, you're on the downside of the bell curve (higher chances of component failure). Being able to monitor the engine, transmission, differentials, and coolant gives me peace of mind and allows me to proactive vs reactive.

There are three philosophies to maintenance, and each have their pros and cons.

1) Scheduled maintenance
2) Preventative maintenance
3) Run-to-failure

An example of scheduled maintenance would be oil and filter changes. This happens based on miles and/or time. Its purpose is to prevent wear and tear. Preventative maintenance, on the other hand, it when data is collected, and decisions are made about the service life of a particular part. In other words, you're forecasting when a repair should be made based on service life. Its purpose is to prevent costly downtime and being inconvenienced. Run-to-failure is when you run the part until it fails.

 

[SargeDiesel]

But he's already at 21K miles - he shouldn't be seeing elevated much of anything.

Granted, mine is a gas engine, but my report is 4ppm, average for the gas is 3. Likely the oil in my engine has 4 or so from the bottle.

Assembly lube is long gone by now in mine - and would be way gone in his so frankly, assembly lube shouldn't even be mentioned on a 20K miles engine. It's washed away fast by hot oil.
I don't know why it's even discussed after the first oil change.
If mine is 4 - why would his at double the miles be 5 times that?
It's not a necessary part of oil or assembly lube. There's no reason for it to be there other than what I stated before....... antifreeze corrosion inhibiter.

This is from a maker of such "assembly lubes" (and potassium isn't even mentioned)
Once the engine is running and oil pressure builds up, the lube dissolves in the motor oil. It leaves leaves little to no trace of its existence.

Potassium in assembly lube? And after 20K miles?

this from "Machinery Lubrication" - specializing in diesel engines -
On the other hand, potassium has only one real major source when found in engine oil — antifreeze.

Other than what the oil formulation contains, or if someone actually adds additives (not a good idea) could be in that. But high numbers - I question that.

Highest number I've seen in an engine oil was 14 out of the bottle, some have <1ppm

Assembly lube would be oil made sticky by using greases to make it stay in place long-term. No potassium needed.

From a diesel engine site -
And elevated levels of sodium and potassium might exist because some exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) coolers don't immediately seal

His tittle says 21k.. but look at the body of text...

"Hey all, I figured you would be interested in seeing a Blackstone on the OEM pp 5w-40 oil. This was run for ~7800 miles on a factory filter. Interesting note about egr and copper. I would have thought it would be broken in by now but maybe not?"

And look at the report, it says 8,200...

So from what I am getting, the test was done between 7,800 and 8,200...

Also, he stated the test was done with the OEM oil and filter, so I would also guess that this was his FIRST oil change.

 

[22EcoDs]

One other member here has their oil analysis done at FINNING CANADA and their Potassium levels are also highlighted. They have a 3.6L but the lab tech had this to say about the high potassium…
“POTASSIUM MAY ALSO BE ASSOCIATED WITH EXTERNAL CONTAMINANTS (FLY ASH, WASH SOLUTIONS, DIRT, GREASES ETC) OR OIL FORMULATION/ SUPPLEMENTAL ADDITIVES.”

The first concern the lab looked at was coolant consumption but the glytech test proved negative so then the additional comment from them was made where else potassium comes from.

Maybe over in NY you’ve been seeing Smokey skies (ASH) from the Alberta/BC fires??
Edit: fly ash contributed to coal factories, air borne particulates… maybe a dirty air filter??

Good point.. I have not done my air filter yet.. I run hot shots which I noted to them.

 

[22EcoDs]

His tittle says 21k.. but look at the body of text...

"Hey all, I figured you would be interested in seeing a Blackstone on the OEM pp 5w-40 oil. This was run for ~7800 miles on a factory filter. Interesting note about egr and copper. I would have thought it would be broken in by now but maybe not?"

And look at the report, it says 8,200...

So from what I am getting, the test was done between 7,800 and 8,200...

Also, he stated the test was done with the OEM oil and filter, so I would also guess that this was his FIRST oil change.

This was my third oil change.

Each record below is a change. Factory ran to 4754, then changed again at 13540, then pulled this sample at 21420. There are 7,880 miles on this test. OEM I meant the jeep wave change at 13540 was pp 5w40 and a OEM filter.

 

[SargeDiesel]

This was my third oil change.

Each record below is a change. Factory ran to 4754, then changed again at 13540, then pulled this sample at 21420. There are 7,880 miles on this test. OEM I meant the jeep wave change at 13540 was pp 5w40 and a OEM filter.

Ah... my bad... I misunderstood... thank you for kindly correcting me.
Sorry @ShadowsPapa

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