What is an unpopular opinion you have in the Jeep community?

[Alpine Warthog]

I guess where I get the redneck part is the combination of southern and the interest in off-roading, guns, drinking beer and raising hell often in combination with each other. I honestly have no idea what Midwesterners or New Englanders do. I don’t know what demographic out in California trashes outdoor spaces. Concert goers seems to be one group. I’ve got some cousins who live in Jersey and my exes extended family is from Michigan. They drink “pop.” They might as well be from Jupiter. Last time I was in Jersey some guy tried to pump my gas and I almost throttled him. I quickly went back to Virginia.

I’ve got a lot of Scots Irish Appalachia folk in me and I know my people. l also don’t see it as necessarily an insult and a lot of people would describe themselves as proudly redneck. I paddle towards the banjo music and BBQ is a food, not an event. The event is a pig pickin’

Tying the trashing of these places with rednecks is more about the artifacts left behind (.223 casings, 12 gauge shells, cheap beer cans) than the some greater propensity for rednecks to trash places than some other group nationwide. I’m taking about my observations in VA. Yeah, there’s definitely an attitude that goes along with it that’s less prevalent in the overlanding crowd. But in Virginia, that’s who’s traditionally been out there before overlanding started getting popular. I’ve never seen a convoy of Jeep club people shooting guns out their windows. But I’ve seen a convoy of guys in buggies doing that.

It’s not like I don’t encounter these guys on the trails all the time and interact with them, mostly positively, so it’s not some anthropologic mystery I’m putting together. I’ve been in these groups when people are shooting up the place, smashing shit, the music is blasting, titties are out and people are hooting and hollering having a good time. It wasn’t a bunch of overlanding nerds talking about RTTs and their total solar wattage or gram weenie through hikers or birders looking for warblers or master naturalists doing a plant survey.

SO much here....

I'm having a hard time digesting everything you've said, On one hand I hate that you've fallen into the guns=rednecks thing
and on the other, I can't say you're wrong.

I hate side by sides. Hate them with a passion. Why? Because 90% of all bad interactions I've had on any trail (from TX, OK, ND to NY and PA) it's always the buggy crowd acting stupid. I don't get it. Lack of license plates? I don't know. I've seen full size people doing stupid but they seem to be the diesel 25/3500 crowd. The people with Jeeps acting stupid generally hang with the Diesels and have 30 inch rims with 40s and are scared of dirt. AND almost every one of them are under 30 years of age.

Jeep people seem to be the most down to earth and conscientious. Which is why I gravitated this direction.

Ammo on sides of the trails isn't one that I've ever dealt with. I grew up in the woods of Northwestern PA and have moved back home after 25 years. You hear at least one gun shot a day out here if you're outside the city limits. I've never heard full auto tho. Can't say it doesn't happen but I've not experienced it.

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[BLK HOLE]

I cannot remember who to attribute it too, but I once heard/read someone say "Overlanding" is code for I am afraid to camp and sleep on the ground.

Slowing moving into the same category as Vegans and Crossfitters of people who cannot shut up about it. I think all three groups meet up at my local Trader Joe's

Because ground camping sucks.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

SO much here....

I'm having a hard time digesting everything you've said, On one hand I hate that you've fallen into the guns=rednecks thing
and on the other, I can't say you're wrong.

I hate side by sides. Hate them with a passion. Why? Because 90% of all bad interactions I've had on any trail (from TX, OK, ND to NY and PA) it's always the buggy crowd acting stupid. I don't get it. Lack of license plates? I don't know. I've seen full size people doing stupid but they seem to be the diesel 25/3500 crowd. The people with Jeeps acting stupid generally hang with the Diesels and have 30 inch rims with 40s and are scared of dirt. AND almost every one of them are under 30 years of age.

Jeep people seem to be the most down to earth and conscientious. Which is why I gravitated this direction.

Ammo on sides of the trails isn't one that I've ever dealt with. I grew up in the woods of Northwestern PA and have moved back home after 25 years. You hear at least one gun shot a day out here if you're outside the city limits. I've never heard full auto tho. Can't say it doesn't happen but I've not experienced it.

I’m not saying guns=rednecks. But frequently rednecks have guns. I carry a suppressed SBR with me and I pick up other peoples garbage. I’ve never gotten drunk in the woods and started shooting stuff with one of my guns. People are taking what I’m saying and seeing everything as an absolute or taking my invocation of the term redneck to mean some combination of whatever traits they want to apply in the broadest terms. That’s not what I’m saying. To me “redneck” isn’t a euphemism for gun owners, or white, or conservative or southern or even the combination of these things. I have a number of close friends who are black (a demographic most people don’t associate with the term redneck). They all have guns. One of them builds ARs for people and has a .50 Barrett. They’re all big 2A folks. They all fish. A few are fairly conservative, others progressive or a combination of both. They all drink beer and grill out and own trucks. All pretty normal southern male things. These guys aren’t rednecks. Most of the white guys I know are same way. If i suggested to any one of them that we combine all these things in the woods in the middle of the night, they’d look at me as if I was crazy. It’s safe to say that just about every person I know regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or politics (including a lot of die hard progressives) is a gun owner, if not an enthusiast. In my personal experience gun ownership cuts across every possible demographic despite what TV and politicians would have people think.

I can also tell you this, if I go down to some empty lot in Portsmouth or Hampton, you’ll find empty beer cans and shell casings too and I’d bet 2 months salary that’s NOT rednecks. When I walk GrandView preserve in Hampton and see a bunch of trash (and I’ve seen people dumping it) on the beach or in the marsh, that’s mostly not the locals who live in the surrounding neighborhoods because they get really pissed of about it. It’s also mostly not rednecks either. In fact, I counted 50 Mylar balloons with my spotting scope spread across the entire length of the marsh on one day. That’s mostly from kids birthdays, etc that floated across the Peninsula by the prevailing wind. I never said all trash in all outdoor spaces is rednecks.

What I’m saying is that I’ve been encountering rednecks out in the western part of the state running these well and lesser known Jeep trails and engaging in the kinds of behaviors I’ve described for almost 40 years. It’s not the birders; it’s not the section hikers (although they do sometimes leave spent isobutane/propane canisters and other camping detritus); its usually not the casual car campers with kids (although they do some times leave trash); it’s not festival attendees (who frequently trash outdoor spaces) because there’re no festivals up in the middle of some trail the GWNF; it’s not the equestrians (they mostly just leave horse sh1t); it’s not the mountain bikers (I personally know several hundred of them and if they leave something behind it’s inner tubes and energy bar wrappers); it’s not the hunters (wrong caliber, wrong quantity, wrong season) or just lost gun enthusiasts who can’t find a range; its not the hunt club guys who own cabins or hard right militia guys who own cabins; it’s not overlanders with their Trasharoos hanging off their spare tires (I don’t know about most of people but I certainly don’t have room for 3-4 cases of beer in my truck when I’m fully loaded for a trip); it’s not convoys of Jeeps from some club because that’s not a good look for these groups; if it involves guns, it’s mostly not college kids, because you can’t have a gun in the dorms, it’s mostly not locals because frankly a large swath of the folks in these communities are either to well established, or too destitute to engage in this kind of thing. It’s people going up into these areas with several cases of beer at a time and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, raising hell all night and leaving behind hundreds of shell casings, smashed beer bottles and crushed cans, cardboard from the cases of beer, still smoldering or burning fires, random garbage & sometimes buckets of human feces. I’ve seen these guys on the trail. I’ve heard them hollering at night. I’ve seen the aftermath as they’re packing up what little they brought or intend to pack out. It’s rednecks. I’ve lived amongst them my whole life. I’ve got them in my family. I’ve wheeled with them and I’ve seen them out on the trails for years. And over the years, the camping along trails in GWNF and JNF has gotten progressively worse, to the point where some places you basically can’t camp because of the glass and crap that will tear up your gear. Besides, who wants their kids traipsing over spent shell casings, and picking them up. This is the increasing reality of vehicle-accessible back country camping in Virginia. Certainly not everywhere, and certainly not every spot even where it’s prevalent, but it’s definitely getting worse and when the state or federal government eventually gets their heads out of their asses, these trails are going to start getting shut down.

Does anyone remember during the last government shutdown, when many rangers stopped patrolling (many did on their own time anyway) and people went in to Joshua Tree National Park and started cutting down the damn joshua trees? I’m not saying that was rednecks. But lack of boundaries attracts the very people that necessitates the rules and regulations in the first place.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

I’m not saying guns=rednecks. But frequently rednecks have guns. I carry a suppressed SBR with me and I pick up other peoples garbage. I’ve never gotten drunk in the woods and started shooting stuff with one of my guns. People are taking what I’m saying and seeing everything as an absolute or taking my invocation of the term redneck to mean some combination of whatever traits they want to apply in the broadest terms. That’s not what I’m saying. To me “redneck” isn’t a euphemism for gun owners, or white, or conservative or southern or even the combination of these things. I have a number of close friends who are black (a demographic most people don’t associate with the term redneck). They all have guns. One of them builds ARs for people and has a .50 Barrett. They’re all big 2A folks. They all fish. A few are fairly conservative, others progressive or a combination of both. They all drink beer and grill out and own trucks. All pretty normal southern male things. These guys aren’t rednecks. Most of the white guys I know are same way. If i suggested to any one of them that we combine all these things in the woods in the middle of the night, they’d look at me as if I was crazy. It’s safe to say that just about every person I know regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or politics (including a lot of die hard progressives) is a gun owner, if not an enthusiast. In my personal experience gun ownership cuts across every possible demographic despite what TV and politicians would have people think.

I can also tell you this, if I go down to some empty lot in Portsmouth or Hampton, you’ll find empty beer cans and shell casings too and I’d bet 2 months salary that’s NOT rednecks. When I walk GrandView preserve in Hampton and see a bunch of trash (and I’ve seen people dumping it) on the beach or in the marsh, that’s mostly not the locals who live in the surrounding neighborhoods because they get really pissed of about it. It’s also mostly not rednecks either. In fact, I counted 50 Mylar balloons with my spotting scope spread across the entire length of the marsh on one day. That’s mostly from kids birthdays, etc that floated across the Peninsula by the prevailing wind. I never said all trash in all outdoor spaces is rednecks.

What I’m saying is that I’ve been encountering rednecks out in the western part of the state running these well and lesser known Jeep trails and engaging in the kinds of behaviors I’ve described for almost 40 years. It’s not the birders; it’s not the section hikers (although they do sometimes leave spent isobutane/propane canisters and other camping detritus); its usually not the casual car campers with kids (although they do some times leave trash); it’s not festival attendees (who frequently trash outdoor spaces) because there’re no festivals up in the middle of some trail the GWNF; it’s not the equestrians (they mostly just leave horse sh1t); it’s not the mountain bikers (I personally know several hundred of them and if they leave something behind it’s inner tubes and energy bar wrappers); it’s not the hunters (wrong caliber, wrong quantity, wrong season) or just lost gun enthusiasts who can’t find a range; its not the hunt club guys who own cabins or hard right militia guys who own cabins; it’s not overlanders with their Trasharoos hanging off their spare tires (I don’t know about most of people but I certainly don’t have room for 3-4 cases of beer in my truck when I’m fully loaded for a trip); it’s not convoys of Jeeps from some club because that’s not a good look for these groups; if it involves guns, it’s mostly not college kids, because you can’t have a gun in the dorms, it’s mostly not locals because frankly a large swath of the folks in these communities are either to well established, or too destitute to engage in this kind of thing. It’s people going up into these areas with several cases of beer at a time and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, raising hell all night and leaving behind hundreds of shell casings, smashed beer bottles and crushed cans, cardboard from the cases of beer, still smoldering or burning fires, random garbage & sometimes buckets of human feces. I’ve seen these guys on the trail. I’ve heard them hollering at night. I’ve seen the aftermath as they’re packing up what little they brought or intend to pack out. It’s rednecks. I’ve lived amongst them my whole life. I’ve got them in my family. I’ve wheeled with them and I’ve seen them out on the trails for years. And over the years, the camping along trails in GWNF and JNF has gotten progressively worse, to the point where some places you basically can’t camp because of the glass and crap that will tear up your gear. Besides, who wants their kids traipsing over spent shell casings, and picking them up. This is the increasing reality of vehicle-accessible back country camping in Virginia. Certainly not everywhere, and certainly not every spot even where it’s prevalent, but it’s definitely getting worse and when the state or federal government eventually gets their heads out of their asses, these trails are going to start getting shut down.

Like I said, I can't say where you're wrong. I consider myself a redneck and strongly support the gun rights. I don't consider the two linked though.

For me, I see that kind of trash laying around and I assume it's 20 something rich brats driving Daddy's money and shooting daddy's guns. I don't know any rednecks that can pop off a month's salary in ammo in just one weekend.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Like I said, I can't say where you're wrong. I consider myself a redneck and strongly support the gun rights. I don't consider the two linked though.

For me, I see that kind of trash laying around and I assume it's 20 something rich brats driving Daddy's money and shooting daddy's guns. I don't know any rednecks that can pop off a month's salary in ammo in just one weekend.

The rich people are at The Greenbrier shooting daddy’s guns on the sporting clays course ?The only people I would consider bougee out on the trails are overlanders because this stuff is so expensive. There’s definitely the factor of the bored children of local gentry (daddy owns the car dealership) doing this kind of thing. That’s the local component. But the guys mostly engaging in these kinds of things, again, I’ve been encountering them for years, are not rich people even if they’re not necessarily destitute. Also being poor never stopped people from spending money on dumb stuff. You can rent to own 22” rims. I’ve known guys who lived in a dump but had a mighty impressive collection of guns or a nice motorcycle. I never said redneck=poor. That’s another media myth to make educated urban progressives feel comfortable that they’re somehow different/better. To me if you don’t derive your income from the possession of capital, but rather through wages, then you’re working class. That includes the professional classes like lawyers and doctors that have structures in place to protect their incomes. I know a number of guys who would proudly declare themselves to be a redneck who make good money working as engineers at our local shipyards or NASA Langley. I’ve known a lot of rich rednecks too. I’m also not saying all rednecks trash places. Thats like saying every urban black person is a gangbanger. The overwhelming majority are not. The overwhelming majority of rednecks don’t go out and trash the woods. I don’t like to really put myself in any one box, but if I was a stew, redneck would be one of the ingredients and again, I pick up other peoples trash. Again, in my observations over the years, the guys trashing the trails where rednecks.

Bringing this thing back to the beginning, the whole reason any of this came up, is that I originally said that the overlanding crowd tended to be more environmentally conscious out on the trails than the folks traditionally 4wheeling in the state, the point being that this may be a positive development of the whole overlanding phenomena. This is my experience in Virginia. It may be different elsewhere. Traditionally the folks 4wheeling were Jeepers and rednecks. And yeah, on a Venn diagram there’s some level of overlap there between those two groups. Some contingent of those rednecks are the sorts that go out and trash the place. Again, not all. Not the majority. But the ones trashing and who are still trashing these places in my observations over almost 40 years are mostly rednecks.

I find it weird that people, and this cuts across every possible demographic where this happens, tend to be really uncomfortable with hearing or considering that some people who may fall into their self identified group demonstrate some negative attributes or behaviors. I’ve never felt the need to see that people who are like me are inherently good. I see it as highly individual even if we share interests or traits. I’m a big time scuba
diver (hence my handle). I honestly can’t stand most scuba divers. I have an almost visceral dislike of most of them. Some of this is undeserved bias on my part. A lot is from experience. This doesn’t include the frogmen or retired frogmen I know who tend to be really chill divers. I certainly would never defend scuba divers collectively or individually if I saw them doing ignorant crap. Probably nobody here that’s a gun enthusiast hasn’t encountered another guy at the range where you think to yourself “that guy has no business owning a gun.” I see this the same thing with rednecks. Most rednecks aren’t trashing places but in my experience the guys who are trashing places, at least in my state are rednecks.

 

[BAT]

Since getting mine I've had the top up maybe 50% of the time, only for rain. Bought the soft top so I have 0 excuse for not dropping the top and enjoying the experience.

I've actually got my coworkers with Jeeps taking their tops off too, had to have a little conversation with them and remind them that they're making the rest of us look bad when they refuse to go topless lol

Haha yep. Two coworkers and a few other friends with Jeeps and I always give them a hard time on why did they buy their jeeps. They don't off road or anything like that so at least take the top and doors off. They tell me the panels are a pain. So why did you not get a soft top. One of them just bought a sunrider top and is liking it a lot and now wants to look at full soft top.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

Haha yep. Two coworkers and a few other friends with Jeeps and I always give them a hard time on why did they buy their jeeps. They don't off road or anything like that so at least take the top and doors off. They tell me the panels are a pain. So why did you not get a soft top. One of them just bought a sunrider top and is liking it a lot and now wants to look at full soft top.

Yeah, this Jeep is the first one I got with the dual top group. The soft top is sitting in its box and I’m thinking of getting a sunrider which part of me thinks is really stupid. My TJ was a soft top having the hard top is really nice. I really wish they made a rack attachment for the freedom panels. Where I live you can’t take off the panels and leave them. It will inevitably rain and I’m not sure I’ll put the full soft top on. I may sell it and use the money to buy a subrider. Maybe that’s slightly less goofy.

 

[BearFootSam]

Yeah, to me the only practical distinction between “overlanding” and I use the term myself, and car camping is the off road aspect. But it occurred to me the other day that despite doing hard sections of hard trails, where I end up camping is usually in a place where I could have accessed it in something like a Subaru wagon with zero concern. In OBX all manner of vehicles end up on the beach during daylight and during turtle nesting season the only camping is campground camping where my rig looks pretentious (not that I really care) Back in the day, even with Jeeps and OG Broncos and Toyotas we never called it overlanding. Going out was important, not what we called it.

There’s this an aspect of this George Carlin riffed about. The rise of euphemistic language and how it doesn’t really add information. In this case, it’s driven by marketing, the social currency of “influencing,” and the importation of exotic-seeming activities from places like Australia and South Africa.

Now regarding the net effect of all of this, there’s a double edge sword. By calling it something sexier than car camping it’s really created a phenomenon and the market to go with it. That’s lead to an explosion of advancements in products that make the whole experience of car camping much more pleasant. People laughably also call it “vehicle-based camping” another case of adding complexity to the language without adding more information. Companies are scrambling to put out clever products to make the whole experience much more pleasant. I for one think that’s great.

But I can’t help but thinking that for a lot of people there’s a rude awaking after buying tons of gear and realizing that fundamentally this is sleeping, eating and pooping outside with the mosquitoes, noseeums, rain and heat. I can’t see how that really affects me in any way negatively or otherwise, and I don’t want to gatekeep. It’s just a curiosity of mine. I do find it a bit odd how many RTT I see on random vehicles nowadays. But, I haven’t experienced traffic jams of clueless new overlanders on trails, only traffic jams of Jeep clubs ?. The overlanding community generally speaking is more environmentally conscious which is good. In Virginia a lot of places I 4wheel have always been haunted by red necks, which means shell casings, broken glass, spray paint and trash. This is frowned upon amongst overlanders. Maybe overlanding represents a mild gentrification of outdoor spaces but I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing. I’ve yet to see a Trail Recon video where Brad, after spending the evening drunkenly shooting his AR in random directions, smashes a case of empty beer bottles in the still smoldering fire ring and drives off. So far in my experience, this overlanding thing is mostly a benign or perhaps positive development even if the use of euphemistic language is a bit cringy and seeing a ballooning percentage of SUVs sporting RTTs is just funny.

Growing up I did a lot of car camping and backpacking, over-landing such as it’s called wasn’t really a thing. After having a kid backpacking became somewhat out of reach as a 2,3,4,5 year old can’t carry their own stuff and needs most often to be carried such that car camping was it. To get away from crowds and to get closer to the wild we started ‘overlanding’. In other words, unsupported car camping.

I did invest in an RTT for the same reasons. Camping on the ground in griz country when it’s below freezing is tough with a young kid so the rtt became a means to accommodate May excursions to the mountains when the crowds are thinner.

We took this setup over cinnamon pass (Subaru Foz MT) and camped halfway between silverton and lake city. Ned spite the day time UTV noise, by 5pm everyone had head to town for the night and we had a valley all to ourselves until the next day.

When we shopped the Gladiator I had in mind that while we went everywhere in the subi, the gladiator would be a far better vehicle for the task. The Foz was modified with a 3” lift, K02s, belly plate and rear locker but going over cinnamon required about 98% of the capability on tap. We made it without issue but had conditions deteriorated there was no reserve which is suboptimal. In the gladiator I have far less concern about breaking something, huge plus on the low range and 4.10 gears so I could trade momentum for finesse. A bed and more payload to leave headroom to carry more h20 which tends to be the biggest range limiter.

There was an instance in ND when we had to leave a wild camp site in the middle of the night when a big thunderstorm broke and I was concerned I wouldn’t be able to get up the hill out once the bentonite mud turned to grease. The gladiator wouldn’t have had an issue. In that case the RTT was a benefit again as I could fold it up in just a couple of mints while my wife got our son into his seat.
Likewise, camped on exposed ridges, the RTT has the strength to weather high winds and driving rain without feeling like it will blow away. While it is a great tent and the Subaru managed it, the weight was ponderous and overmatched the car. The gladiator being nearly 2,000lbs heavier is a far more suitable vehicle for such weight.

What gives me pause is the number of such outfitted ‘overloading’ vehicles whose drivers most likely lack the experience to know what they are getting into. I consider myself a decent off road pilot after having acquired professional training and significant experience while in the Army yet some of these routes have been challenging. I sort of dread the thought of a neophyte venturing up a no-turn-back pass without a thorough foundation of skill.

Like anything, the folk who do what the vehicle looks capable of to idiot ratio is skewed to the latter. Just as the most tacticool looking guy at the range probably plays more COD than anything.

 

[BearFootSam]

Yeah, this Jeep is the first one I got with the dual top group. The soft top is sitting in its box and I’m thinking of getting a sunrider which part of me thinks is really stupid. My TJ was a soft top having the hard top is really nice. I really wish they made a rack attachment for the freedom panels. Where I live you can’t take off the panels and leave them. It will inevitably rain and I’m not sure I’ll put the full soft top on. I may sell it and use the money to buy a subrider. Maybe that’s slightly less goofy.

We only have a soft top, mostly I love it. It’s getting a bit scuffed from trail branches but the fact that I can open or shut it in u dear 60 seconds means it’s worthwhile to open it up just for a trip to the store. Maybe I’m naive but I leave it open while parked but then again it’s a small town.

 

[BAT]

Yeah, this Jeep is the first one I got with the dual top group. The soft top is sitting in its box and I’m thinking of getting a sunrider which part of me thinks is really stupid. My TJ was a soft top having the hard top is really nice. I really wish they made a rack attachment for the freedom panels. Where I live you can’t take off the panels and leave them. It will inevitably rain and I’m not sure I’ll put the full soft top on. I may sell it and use the money to buy a subrider. Maybe that’s slightly less goofy.

Good luck in whichever way you go. Hey at least with the Sunrider you kinda get the best of both

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

We only have a soft top, mostly I love it. It’s getting a bit scuffed from trail branches but the fact that I can open or shut it in u dear 60 seconds means it’s worthwhile to open it up just for a trip to the store. Maybe I’m naive but I leave it open while parked but then again it’s a small town.

Yeah, I’ve had my soft top slashed a few times. Theft is why I didn’t do the semi-open adventure rack thing. Now I’ve got stuff in a Raingler attic net so I don’t know. I may put the soft top on at some point. Maybe I’m talking myself into just selling my it while it’s in a box and getting a Sun Rider. If I had a 2 door JL, no question it would be soft top.

 

[BearFootSam]

Yeah, I’ve had my soft top slashed a few times. Theft is why I didn’t do the semi-open adventure rack thing. Now I’ve got stuff in a Raingler attic net so I don’t know. I may put the soft top on at some point. Maybe I’m talking myself into just selling my it while it’s in a box and getting a Sun Rider. If I had a 2 door JL, no question it would be soft top.

If I do leave something of value I lock it in a compartment, do t leave visible valuables and such.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

If I do leave something of value I lock it in a compartment, do t leave visible valuables and such.

In my experience crackheads don’t know or care. The only solution is to leave the truck unlocked. But they will still sometimes not even try the doors. My ex left her purse in the Jeep once. They cut the half door window tossed her purse and only took the loose change.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

That is a hilarious story. I can only imagine how frustrated you were. I had a similar experience in a sand dune. I had the doors and roof off and tried going up a very long, steep dune on a hot day. Needless to say I didn’t have enough speed. As I was spinning the tires coming to a stop, waves of sand were coming in the vehicle. I will never get all of it out

Caught up with you there the other day while pulling out a stuck truck at the beach.
"Waves and waves of sand" is right, lol.

 

[chorky]

It's a nice gesture when someone gives you something besides a hard time and at the least it's harmless.

Folks that have an issue with something like that have an issue.

Agreed. I mean why would anyone be grumpy or angry about a kind gesture or acknowledging another person. We all have to live on the same planet. Unless you just don’t care about anyone but yourself. Kinda a selfish way of thinking IMO

Even in non-political terms, we’re increasing socially isolated.

ANYTHING, that we can do to acknowledge some other persons shared experience or find common ground, even little rubber ducks, is a net positive and worth doing.

This is on point and its a pretty big deal really. All this modern tech has people in a dream world of being ‘self reliant’. There is a limit to being self reliant and largely its really not possible. acknowledging others with similar interests, even if its just the vehicle you drive, is a starting point to bring back community - which is what is really necessary for a society to flourish. Plus, Jeeps are just cool!

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