Whats is your opinion the jeeps engine stop start system?

[GeneralMaximus]

Not that old friday build conspiracy BS again.... LOL Wow, it just keeps getting more entertaining.

In reality that guy has demonstrated with numbers what we have been saying for many years that is already supported by science and logic - idling leads to fuel contamination which in turn leads to oil dilution, more wear, and the formation of acides in the oil.
I don't get there resistance to logic, engineering, science, and actual proof from people who know vs. the crap coming people who simply hate and base their "proof" on nothing at all.

Besides - looks to me like it was the same vehicle, not two vehicles....... so there goes that old QAnon build on a Friday bunk.

I bet a few here also believe a CAI will increase useful HP on these engines, too.

Friday build, random sloppy worker, defective materials, bad batch of cylinders, etc. You know what I mean when I say a sample size of 2 is not enough.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Friday build, random sloppy worker, defective materials, bad batch of cylinders, etc. You know what I mean when I say a sample size of 2 is not enough.

That is true in other cases - this was with the same engine.
Ideally, he'd alternate and do more testing.

 

[Metalhead]

First thing I did was buy the auto stop eliminator. No matter what any experts say it is a dumb idea.

 

[Tullyp]

Everybody has an opinion but watch on YouTube, Hollywood Mechanic " your using the wrong oil". It is a great video on synthetic oil and see what he says at 13:10+. This all being said you can get a "lawyers" opinion to fall on any side.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Everybody has an opinion but watch on YouTube, Hollywood Mechanic " your using the wrong oil". It is a great video on synthetic oil and see what he says at 13:10+. This all being said you can get a "lawyers" opinion to fall on any side.

- is he talking these specific engines built for this? Or, generically - the engines he works on.
Yeah, thought so.
These don't use the sort he's talking about which rely on oil pressure. Doesn't matter if oil pressure drops on these - it's why they do not interchange with the non-ESS engine phasers
Also - the chain is constantly subjected to uneven stresses while running by the mere fact that the cams don't turn under the same forces all 360 degrees.
Yeah, what he's saying isn't going to apply to these. He's talking generically of other engines.

So, problem solved.

 

[Tullyp]

Did you look at the video about start stop and oil??

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Did you look at the video about start stop and oil??

Yup. He's another hater, and not taking all things into account, especially the fact that these are specifically taking all of that into account. I can tell by the terms he's using. Another youtuber talking generically (and with a bet of his own speculation thrown in)
I even read the transcript to be sure.

Why don't people with the 3.6 and who use ESS all the time, let it work as designed, have issues with the timing chains and such? Because these were radically redesigned to handle it. Even the timing chain itself was totally redesigned, the phasers do not use oil pressure.

 

[kevman65]

I find it amusing, someone asks for opinions on something and people come in to trash those who feel different than they do.

When someone asks an opinion, that doesn't open the door for infighting and bashing those of opposing opinions. That's why the world is the way it is.

Old Farts especially know better. Because they grew up with opposing opinions and having lively chats without calling people names.

I oppose most of the electronic, interwoven crap on all new vehicles.
When you have one wire break and it takes away a LOT of major systems, you'll understand

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I find it amusing, someone asks for opinions on something and people come in to trash those who feel different than they do.

When someone asks an opinion, that doesn't open the door for infighting and bashing those of opposing opinions. That's why the world is the way it is.

Old Farts especially know better. Because they grew up with opposing opinions and having lively chats without calling people names.

I oppose most of the electronic, interwoven crap on all new vehicles.
When you have one wire break and it takes away a LOT of major systems, you'll understand

Opinions are fine - if you don't like it, don't use it. If it's annoying, that's an opinion, turn it off.
But the rest is technical BS, not opinions. Some is being put out as a matter of fact, perhaps to support or justify their opinions that it's bad.
"I don't like it" is an opinion - fine.
"It destroys engines" or "it doesn't save any fuel at all" - that's hardly opinion, it's being stated as facts and used as "supporting evidence" for an opinion.

I don't think anyone at all has "trashed" anyone who simply said it was annoying, or they disliked it, or it was a problem for them, or their driving types didn't fit with it. No one has trashed those people at all. Those who say "I hate it, it's annoying" - no one has trashed them.

If you hate it, you hate it. If it doesn't fit your driving style or needs, turn it off. Push that button. That's all opinion. The rest isn't.

I'm only disproving the bullshit people are putting out there as factual to prove it's inherently evil and destroys things and will kill your first born.

You can still hate it.

"I hate it" is fine. Go with it. That's a feeling, and everyone is entitled to their feelings on it.

 

[Hootbro]

- is he talking these specific engines built for this? Or, generically - the engines he works on.
Yeah, thought so.

"Hollywood Mechanic" works primarily on European Exotics and similar high end $100K+ vehicles. He comes from the frame of reference as mentioned in the video pointing out how some of those vehicle will spec 5W-30 or 5W-40 grades initially and then factory service data or service bulletins push it to 10W-60 "Supercar" spec'd oils. With many of them now having ESS systems.

In its entirety, his video is probably one of the best ones out there giving a high arching overview of the subject. The guy did his homework and you can tell in his delivery that quite a few salient points made were new to him until he did that research. He is not a tribologist but one can tell a few had input into his video content.

So people can find some pick the fly shit out of the pepper detail they have problem with but it does not discount the whole of the work.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

"Hollywood Mechanic" works primarily on European Exotics and similar high end $100K+ vehicles. He comes from the frame of reference as mentioned in the video pointing out how some of those vehicle will spec 5W-30 or 5W-40 grades initially and then factory service data or service bulletins push it to 10W-60 "Supercar" spec'd oils. With many of them now having ESS systems.

In its entirety, his video is probably one of the best ones out there giving a high arching overview of the subject. The guy did his homework and you can tell in his delivery that quite a few salient points made were new to him until he did that research. He is not a tribologist but one can tell a few had input into his video content.

So people can find some pick the fly shit out of the pepper detail they have problem with but it does not discount the whole of the work.

I agree, just that what's he's referring to will be more of a subject relating to what he's working on. I mentioned the specific differences because what he mentions doesn't apply to these 3.6 engines.
There's probably a lot of engines out there where the ESS was just tossed in, and they will figure out the problems later.

I enjoyed the oil bit as I can so related to that with the AMC years and the T5 transmission where they kept having issues and kept changing the lube recommendations - running from gear lube to ATF to engine oil - book after book was changed, and in the end - they finally got it, with a synchromesh lube that works perfectly. But the poor guys going by the owners manual or the first TSMs - they'll have some trouble.
I wouldn't discount what he's saying, just the single small bit that was pointed out by a prior post here pointing to what that tech said - and how it doesn't relate to our engines (others, it likely does, and the tech explains it well).

I found the video to be good.

 

[Hootbro]

I mentioned the specific differences because what he mentions doesn't apply to these 3.6 engines.

Maybe, maybe not. I mention in another thread about the Maserati 3.0 V6 that the lower end short block is built on the same line as our Pentastar with Ferrari finishing out with their direct injection , twin turbo heads. Maserati did the same thing of of specing out initially 5W-40 before also going to 10W-60 also.

That being said, application drives the engineering and our 3.6L Pentastar vs. the Maserati 3.0L V6 are two different applications with different oil needs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe, maybe not. I mention in another thread about the Maserati 3.0 V6 that the lower end short block is built on the same line as our Pentastar with Ferrari finishing out with their direct injection , twin turbo heads. Maserati did the same thing of of specing out initially 5W-40 before also going to 10W-60 also.

That being said, application drives the engineering and our 3.6L Pentastar vs. the Maserati 3.0L V6 are two different applications with different oil needs.

I wonder what bearings and lower end the 3.0 uses vs the 3.6.
Cams and phasers will definitely be different. Timing chains likely quite different. The PUG is a different animal from the original 3.6.

Thank goodness we don't have direct injection, on the other hand - we'd have more HP if we did.
Give and take.

 

[Hootbro]

I wonder what bearings and lower end the 3.0 uses vs the 3.6.
Cams and phasers will definitely be different. Timing chains likely quite different. The PUG is a different animal from the original 3.6.

Thank goodness we don't have direct injection, on the other hand - we'd have more HP if we did.
Give and take.

The below video of a non PUG 3.6L Pentastar take down where at the 15:04 time mark, he fits the Maserati 3.0L timing cover to it. At 25:50, he fits the head gasket and head from a 3.6L on the 3.0L.

I would have to dig for it but I remember reading the cam and crank journal clearances were identical for non PUG and PUG engines.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The below video of a non PUG 3.6L Pentastar take down where at the 15:04 time mark, he fits the Maserati 3.0L timing cover to it. At 25:50, he fits the head gasket and head from a 3.6L on the 3.0L.

I would have to dig for it but I remember reading the cam and crank journal clearances were identical for non PUG and PUG engines.

I watched that vide a few months ago - the guy is a hoot, interesting to watch and he made it more-so with his antics. I bet I bookmarked it, it was such a good one.

The bearing and journal sizes are different.
Bearing materials are also different.

PUG changes -

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