I am leaving the forum today.

[kubankevin]

OP reminds me of the “King Curtis” on Wife Swap aka the “bacon is good for me!” kid when he “ran away from home” after packing a small bag.

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[Aj58]

So…..we can say whatever we want and he won’t see it?? ?

 

[Bonanza]

Reminds me of posts on social media about people quitting social media.

Don't care.

Main character syndrome is so intense these days, yeesh.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

This forum has provided endless, excellent information. I had hoped to make use of this knowledge to pick the Gladiator model I would purchase.

My expectation was to replace my 2001 RAM pickup which gets driven about 12 times a year during harvest season and my 2008 JK Wrangler. Both have served me with literally zero powertrain issues and virtually no other issues. The digital display in the truck radio sometimes requires a tap for its display to return.

The motor on the JK's EGR valve, which is external component to the engine on the JK (not technically a powertrain component per JEEP) would stick once in a while, throwing a code after 132,000 miles or so, I finally replaced that. Passenger side door lock solenoid would occasionally not lock that door, so I replaced that I think around 80,000 or so miles. A small oil leak from the upper intake manifold was the only event of my powertrain that I took into our local dealer to correct instead of my doing the work. I mean why not take advantage of JEEP's, factory lifetime powertrain warranty for that? This dealer did this work without issue(s).

So, an 8 liter (V10) powered pickup truck and a 3.8 liter powered JK have provided me frankly, with no problems other than two bolt on, service components on the JK and I think sealant on the upper manifold, also on the JK. All maintenance work has been done by me except for coolant flushes on both of these vehicles, and transmission and center differential fluid changes on the JK where I let a shop that I know the owner and his son very well, do those particular tasks for me. As I get older, I eventually imagine, I will turn over some other service work to them.

A new Gladiator would have provided the functionality of both of these vehicles with a bit smaller truck bed and less towing capacity. You should know that years ago, I had a J-10 Gladiator. Except for the too skinny brake drums and shoes that when rain-wet, provided hair raising, stressful stopping events, was pretty good. Points and condenser, generator brushes, more frequent spark plug changes and engine oil that primarily got dirty faster due to lead in the gasoline was its only real needs. I bought it used with a 327 V8 conversion. Neither the engine, manual trans/clutch/throwout bearing, transfer or diffs ever gave me any trouble. Just woefully inadequate brakes for every day use, let alone when wet.

I don't need the larger bed size of the RAM pickup since I retired from farming. I no longer haul farm equipment, hay bales, etc. on a heavy-duty trailer behind the truck. But what I do today could be done with one vehicle, a JT. Why have I decided not going to sell off my RAM truck and JK?

What stops my idea of replacing these two with one JL is price, complexity and reliability.
Prices are relative to current economy but that doesn't mean I want to pay for an excess of hardware that I flat do not need and frankly, do not want. Ok, ok, I am an older guy than I suspect most on this forum. I just want to turn the key, drive, stop, get out. Crank windows and push the button door locking, fine. I'm not against power windows and door locks, these are relatively tame and work for many years, but can expect some issue eventually. Like my passenger door lock on the JK. Not any fun to replace that by the way but can-do. Dual batteries with IBS intelligent module. CANBUS signals running through most of the wiring. Multiple microprocessors. Multiple sensors, some of which are somewhat delicate but if you don't disturb them, they won't mess with you. Although none of these items mentioned so far, are inexpensive. These processors, sensors, dual batteries & supporting hardware now makes us consider an extended warranty to be piled on top of the eye-opening purchase price. Let's not forget the radio, which is now has become an infotainment system. Cool, right? It is, even for a back peddling guy like me that wants to just turn the key, mash the pedal to go, and stop the darned engine when I intend to stop the engine. Not a microprocessor and sensors that wants to invoke Electronic Stop/Start. Plus, I think, the Starter must have been upgraded to have a longer duty cycle than a vehicle that does not have ESS? And yes, this system CAN indeed cut a bit of gasoline use over a years' time from every vehicle. But this method has added a chunk of change to the cost of the vehicle.. And really the big-bug-on-the cracked windshield in this system, whether you like it or not...

The addition of a second AGM battery. The Auxiliary battery which is physically of a much smaller size than the Main. I get the idea of this supplemental battery and the why that it is needed. I think it is a terrible engineering-solution, but I won't drag on about it. We just have to realize that when you have battery trouble in about 3 years, now we are replacing a Main battery and a smaller, and somewhat hidden Auxiliary battery. Likely at the same time. Ballpark numbers would say a $230 main battery and a $110 Aux battery for $340-ish in materials cost. Just chipping away at the cost of ownership. Those that might want to buy a used JT; I suggest you have the seller replace these two batteries before you buy. Or show that both batteries are less than one year old so you can enjoy your used JT in terms of battery power for at least 1 to 2 more years. Unless you park at the airport for a month at a time.

Cost and complexity, along with a number of issues. As long as my old RAM truck and early JK JEEP keep providing great service. I will keep them. I have driven a new Gladiator. Its certainly smoother, faster accelerating, quieter, plusher, than my old J10 or my RAM and JK I have today. But for now, the truck and JK stay. I shall leave the forum too. May return in the future if one or both of my "Old Paint" vehicles have something terminal happen to them. Great forum and users by the way.

Actually mostly people just have to replace the main battery the auxiliary battery is designed to last much longer. Mine is still rocking at 80,000 miles and I replaced the main at 3 years and 54,000 miles. I know people who have 100,000 + miles on their aux battery and it's still going strong but I get your other reasons for not needing a JT. My 2010 JKU 3.8 was horribly under powered and I was on my third transmission at 138,000 miles so the JT already feels like a race car to me and better gearing and reliability. Good luck!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

A loaded Mojave is over $70K (before the recent discounts). That's ridiculous.

Is it? Show some comparables that are a lot cheaper.
The comparables must have the same types of shocks (those have have the extra oil for staying cool under constant wild ups and downs) and same terrain capabilities.
Show something that will go in the same places, handle sand and dunes of the Middle-East without fail and ride like a dream while doing so.
It must also be a convertible, and have countless accessories available.
I believe the Mojave to be a bargain for those who want it as my Overland MSRP was only 10 grand under that - and I figure the frame and shocks and other amenities of the Mojave make up that 10 grand difference. Buy a set of shocks like that, even with a discount, and let's see the $$ amount.

IMO it's only ridiculous if there's a comparable vehicle for a lot less. I don't see any. No one makes a comparable so what's the basis for ridiculous? Opinion?

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I’m leaving this thread today…

On the way out let me just say. OEM batteries suck. Replace them, use a tender or removed the aux battery. ESS is easily dealt with and not a reason not to buy this truck. As for general reliability progress over time, Jeep vs brand X is moot because the OP already owns one of the worst years of the JK, he’s already accepted Jeep level reliability, if it’s even truly worse than other brands. Generally speaking vehicles today are more reliable than they’ve ever been. All the “complexity” hasn’t equaled unreliability. In the so called golden era of the 1960s the average age of an American’s car was 3-5 years. Now it’s 15+. Electronics are far more reliable than vacuum systems. It’s funny to me that the OP mentions the EGR valve. EGR, pcv, and o2 sensors are the most frequent failures in cars going back decades. All are emissions control components. That’s basically what fails. But going back just to the 80s and 90s a whole lot more used to fail and require maintenance. I’m not that old and I’ve rebuilt carburetors. I’ve had to set point gap and dwell. When’s the last time anyone did that? Hell, when’s the last time you changed spark plugs on a vehicle? I’d much rather have a vehicle that requires a software update than screwing with all the crap I used to have to deal with on cars.

Fundamentally, while there are plenty of good reasons not to buy anything right now, current APRs and prices, as other have pointed out, and reasons not to buy a JT specifically, low T, demonic possession, bad taste, the OPs 2 stated reasons are a fallacy. But to each his own.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All the “complexity” hasn’t equaled unreliability. In the so called golden era of the 1960s the average age of an American’s car was 3-5 years. Now it’s 15+. Electronics are far more reliable than vacuum systems. It’s funny to me that the OP mentions the EGR valve. EGR, pcv, and o2 sensors are the most frequent failures in cars going back decades. All are emissions control components. That’s basically what fails. But going back just to the 80s and 90s a whole lot more used to fail and require maintenance. I’m not that old and I’ve rebuilt carburetors.

I now deal with carburetors 2 at a time on my only remaining carbureted car. I am currently rebuilding the throttle linkage between them as I wasn't happy with the severe curves of the cable.

PCV valves wore and needed to be replaced, or the plugged due to short drives (the condensation literally formed a pudding-like emulsion in the PCV) We sold a lot of PCV valves in the 70s and 80s.

EGR - we could talk about the aluminum plate below the 2100 or 4350 on Fords that were eaten out by hot exhaust gases causing horrible exhaust or vacuum leaks, or got totally plugged by carbon (short drives, generally speaking). We had to deal with a lot of Ford EGR issues. Ford's EGR valve was bolted to the rear of that plate and controlled whether or not exhaust gases going through the intake cross-over passage went into that plate and across the passage at the back of the plate to either side of the intake.
GM wasn't so bad.
The complex systems such as TCS where there were a combination of switches in the transmission case and vacuum lines and vacuum switches........ there were sensors in the air filter housing with multiple vacuum hoses, Ford had vacuum switches sticking out the thermostat housing with at least 3 vacuum lines. They'd get broken, hoses would get mushy from oil or fuel fumes, or they'd get brittle from heat and then you had a mess - a half-working emissions management system. (sorry, TCS is Transmission Controlled Spark)

I still have the original vacuum control system in place for my 82 Eagle SelectDrive system. I did have to replace some rotted vacuum line manifolds (they were rubber and split or rotted with age). I took care of those by replacing them with modern vacuum hoses that handle the crud more easily. I am still running the original transfer case and FAD vacuum motors and all of it still works fine over 40 years later.

I’ve had to set point gap and dwell. When’s the last time anyone did that?

2 weeks ago.
But them I'm picky as when the rubbing block initially wears, dwell increases, point gap decreases and timing is retarded accordingly.

GM allowed you to set dwell with engine running using a hex key through a metal door in the distributor cap. Others were pull cap, set gap, put cap back on and if you had the gap correct, your dwell should be in specs or close.

 

[DirkG]

Is it? Show some comparables that are a lot cheaper.
The comparables must have the same types of shocks (those have have the extra oil for staying cool under constant wild ups and downs) and same terrain capabilities.
Show something that will go in the same places, handle sand and dunes of the Middle-East without fail and ride like a dream while doing so.
It must also be a convertible, and have countless accessories available.
I believe the Mojave to be a bargain for those who want it as my Overland MSRP was only 10 grand under that - and I figure the frame and shocks and other amenities of the Mojave make up that 10 grand difference. Buy a set of shocks like that, even with a discount, and let's see the $$ amount.

IMO it's only ridiculous if there's a comparable vehicle for a lot less. I don't see any. No one makes a comparable so what's the basis for ridiculous? Opinion?

This was one of my recent modest builds for a 23 Mojave (the way I like it). Add diesel and some cosmetics, you're easily in the 70Ks.

Subjectively, yes I think Jeep tried to punch in a higher weight class. The fact that they're offering 10% and 15% discounts speaks to many other people thought the same thing. The articles of "Jeep CEO Christian Meunier Stepping Down Nov 1 Amid Declining Sales" also speaks to Jeep overstepping some of their price points. High interest rates hurt sales as well, but you have to adjust your strategy accordingly.

I'm a happy Gladiator owner. I'm not here to bash the brand. I love Jeep. But I'm also a rational consumer who wants to upgrade to a Mojave. I'm also a tight-ass Economics major and an MBA who watches the market like a hawk looking for a juicy rabbit. I think Jeep made some costly assumptions and really missed the mark with some of their key models. Meunier paid for those mistakes.

So we can agree to disagree on the price points, all good. Now that Jeep has market-corrected their pricing, I am close to a Mojave. I'm just struggling with the high interest rates. The penny pincher in me is giving me the finger. ?

 

[gladtohave]

Well......... Bye .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

 

[dcmdon]

To the OP.

The problems you list with the Gladiator as far as price and needless STUPID complexity unfortunately afflicts all modern vehicles.

Nowhere in your description of your two older vehicles did you ever say the word "RUST". If you don't have rust problems, it is probably cheaper and easier to keep them.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, spend $30k and put a Hemi in the Wrangler. Then you will have a new motor in it and it will be good for another 15 years.

 

[Aj58]

Sorry, don’t know OP but I couldn’t resist.

 

[Stuntman Mike]

Bicycle would also be a decent alternative ...

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Bicycle would also be a decent alternative ...

Speaking my language! I think I'm holding off on the gladiator purchase to build two new bicycles lol

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Speaking my language! I think I'm holding off on the gladiator purchase to build two new bicycles lol

Here ya go -it can ford over 30" of water!

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