Did the value of Gladiators just fall through the floor ???!

[MoDean]

I don't think you made a bad financial decision. You certainly made an unlucky one, but that's bound to happen from time to time. I'm very sorry to read that you had a significant change in income. That is some really scary shit- and it absolutely sucks that trade in values are lower than you could have possibly thought.

The only thing I want to politely mention is that vehicles are commodities. They are bought and sold similar to stocks by wholesalers and dealerships. While I understand that you did a bunch of research, you are also researching pre-, during-, and post- pandemic prices, so, ultimately the only research that matters is the past 13 months as prices are correcting themselves.

But man, don't get mad at a vehicle for not holding its value. you mentioned its like finding out your house blew up, but it isn't. It's a vehicle. Vehicles are a depreciating asset, and we all take a bath on them sometimes.

The fact is that we all got used to trading in our vehicles for thousands and thousands of dollars higher than they were worth.

In April of '23, I traded in the linked truck for $4,000 more ($39,000) than I paid for it April of '22. And then I bought a JTR for $12,000 under MSRP at the same dealer. I KNEW that the next person to buy my old truck was going to be taken for a ride, but I was pretty happy at the time because my pocketbook benefitted.

https://www.garyforcehonda.com/inve...ator-sport-4wd-4d-crew-cab-1c6hjtag8nl125483/

It's probably not cool to forget that we were all super happy about it when the dealership wrote us the trade in check, but the truth is, that high trade in value is being paid for by our neighbors. We had a little financial blood on our hands if we ever traded in between 2021 and 2023.

But that isn't real. That was a pandemic. That changed every pricing model, and we just had 14 months of Gladiator Rubicons selling for under $50k out the door with $63,000 MSRPS. How do you possibly expect a market that has been flooded with $15,000 discounts to offer you 80% of what you paid for It when it was new for a used model?

Spot on. I just happened to hit the changes in the marketplace in a positive manner. I turned in a '21 leased Sport S last month since it wasn't worth the buy out any longer. Turned around and took advantage of the deep discounts on '23s and upgraded to a buy on a Mojave. Don't care about depreciation so much on this one, I'm keeping it.

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[emprex25231]

I got $39k for my base manual sport with 7k miles when I traded it in to Gupton for a '23 Rubicon in April of last year. Sale price on the Rubicon was $49,999.

This is the truck I traded in. Still there. They can't sell it for $35k.

https://www.garyforcehonda.com/inve...ator-sport-4wd-4d-crew-cab-1c6hjtag8nl125483/
And, they upgraded the wheels and tires on it to Fuels on 35s. The original tires and wheels were the stock steel wheels.

Wow it’s been there for a whole year! That is crazy!!! I swear though some of these dealers just won’t budge on the price. When I was looking they were all like nope you won’t find a better deal. I would walk out on the deal and was like hold my beer. They would lie too. I was a mechanic and worked in the automotive industry before and would play stupid. I would ask the out the door price they would constantly say we will work on the financing and get my payments where I wanted them. This one dealer out in Jacksonville with a 2020 sport with 30,000 miles kept spitting his sales pitch and was like I will give you 28k out the door. I know you got it in auction and paid 18 or 19K for it. It’s sat here on your lot for 6 months. They had it advertised for 27k. When everything was said and done it would have been over 35k with like 3500 in dealer fees. He was like we will work the numbers. I was like work the numbers to 28k out the door and wouldn’t budge. I walked and found my 2022 with 13000 miles and still under manufactures warranty. Glad I walked!

 

[aldo98229]

... Complaining about saving thousands of dollars because when you are all done with it it won't get you as much back?

No

 

[Lunentucker]

I wasn't expecting much in the way of value retention when I bought a Jeep.
Equally was not expecting prison shower rape, which is pretty close to what's happening.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Yes, there's been inflation, but if I take the MSRP of my 2022 Overland and then add to it the extra stuff something like, say for kicks, a Mojave X has, and I end up with a price MORE than the Mojave X.
So while I keep chasing what I want and the price keeps flying upward, that higher price would get me a lot more than if I took my Overland and added all of the Mojave stuff to it.
It looks horrible - until you start adding up the costs of the differences.



I don't know if it's a generational difference, region of the country difference, or just how I was raised, or what - living within one's means often means - scrimping and doing without "wants" in order to take care of true needs.
I WANT a lot of stuff - I'd love to be able to "live my life" as I imagine or fantasize about it - but there's reality and that's just how it is.

I think we have two radically different pictures of how I'm handling my life and how I'm living.

I don't want that much. I'm sure what you're thinking of in terms of your dream cars I honestly don't even care.

So much so that I did an exercise a while back. "If you could have anything you want, no limits. Cars, houses".. It was the most difficult thing to think about what I wanted that I don't already have or can get.

I don't really want much. Most people would be like oh I want GT500, I want a Ferrari, I want this I want that. I'd love to have a Lambo.

Me I'm like no. I was happy with my 2008 Mustang until it got wrecked..

I don't feel like I want that much. We all know what "people living above their means" looks like. That's not me.

When I moved here, I didn't have any furniture in my house except a $50 IKEA outdoor table that was really unstable to hold my laptop.

And really uncomfortable chair. And that's where I did my work. Eventually I bought a desk and a decent office chair.

My bed was a mattress. I had a dresser that I brought from my old place.

I didn't change the light bulbs in the bathroom, until all but one of them were out.

I had a shower curtain liner.. nothing else ..

For two years every other room in the house was EMPTY.

And I lived off of 33% of my income. I had no life. No gym membership. No martial arts (which I am a martial artist), nothing.

Finally I started paying to go to a Jiu Jitsu gym after two years. I have a lot of home gym equipment so I do that stuff at home. Why? Because it's cheaper.

And I had no music gear, and didn't buy any for two years.

I got this great job that I loved that paid me three times the money I'm making now and was making before I got that job. And I bought the Jeep. And I bought some music equipment.. And I started to furnish my house.. and then I got laid off.

And now I'm back working at a job that barely pays everything.

I don't want a Lambo, or a mansion, or even a 392 or whatever.. All I want is the ability to make music with a laptop and buy the software etc. A furnished house so I can actually invite people over.

I wanted to have a house warming party when I moved here .. when I got the place furnished. hasn't happened yet. And I'm not trying to make it happen "above my means."

And I want to be able to drive to Dallas to meet the guys down there. I wanna be able to go to Jiu Jitsu half hour away .. without gas breaking the bank.

And also want to clarify. I'm not complaining. Saying this to you here you are the second soul who I have told this to. I don't talk about this. Nobody knows about my problems because I don't want people to know. But I live for the truth. and I always speak the truth. So if people have the wrong idea about something I'm going to set the record straight

I wanna be able to go camping and spend time in nature.

I don't really think that's asking too much. And until very recently when I got laid off, I was living off 20-30% of my income. Now I have a lease w/ a $3000 security deposit (2 months rent) so I can't move. And trust me, the house I live in sucks. I want to move. But moving is also expensive. It cost me $3000 to move here using U boxes from U haul.. the POD like things, because I moved cross country.

I don't want to pretty much throw thousands of dollars in a trash bin and set it on fire. So I stay here.

I really can't afford to move anywhere else until I make more money.

So I dunno. I also don't see it as wanting too much to want ONE vehicle that does everything I need, instead of keeping the Jeep, and then buying a car that has high MPG.. and then having two car payments..Two insurance payments..

Right now what I want is to get one vehicle, with good gas mileage, that I will keep forever (!!) because that's the only way I'm not taking it in the a$$. with resale value or vehicle value or whatever.. Like several others said here "I enjoy my truck.. I love it. I don't care if the value goes down to 0 because I enjoy it and I will never sell it."

To me wasting money is buying something that isn't what I want only to sell it for like 1/7th of the cost in some years time.

And I will also add that I've always had to do this. With everything .. "Oh what I really want is just a little bit more expensive so I'll get this cheaper thing to save money."

What ends up happening is the money I spent on that thing .. 60-70% of it is wasted. Set on fire never to be seen again. And then finally when I can buy the thing I want.. I dread selling the old thing because I won't get nothing for it.

And this is not "oh you expect the price not to go down" ... This is .. I'm THROWING MONEY AWAY BUYING THE CHEAPER SHIT.

Now my MO is, if I don't think I will keep it until the day I die. I don't buy it.

I bought the Jeep. Yes. Because a lot of people gave me a bunch of BS about decent gas mileage and it having enough power and all this other crap.. but for me. Was not the case.

I really don't think it's too much to want to not set money on fire buying shit that isn't what I want.

Are we even on the same thread?

OP is underwater and laid off unemployed. How would that benefit him gifting it to somebody?

I'm actually not unemployed LOL. But yeah that's kinda ridiculous I'm gonna gift it to somebody and then continue paying the bank $1200 lol.. But hey man. That was a really nice idea he had even if it doesn't make sense for me to do it in this situation.

I don't think you made a bad financial decision. You certainly made an unlucky one, but that's bound to happen from time to time. I'm very sorry to read that you had a significant change in income. That is some really scary shit- and it absolutely sucks that trade in values are lower than you could have possibly thought.

The only thing I want to politely mention is that vehicles are commodities. They are bought and sold similar to stocks by wholesalers and dealerships. While I understand that you did a bunch of research, you are also researching pre-, during-, and post- pandemic prices, so, ultimately the only research that matters is the past 13 months as prices are correcting themselves.

But man, don't get mad at a vehicle for not holding its value. you mentioned its like finding out your house blew up, but it isn't. It's a vehicle. Vehicles are a depreciating asset, and we all take a bath on them sometimes.

The fact is that we all got used to trading in our vehicles for thousands and thousands of dollars higher than they were worth.

In April of '23, I traded in the linked truck for $4,000 more ($39,000) than I paid for it April of '22. And then I bought a JTR for $12,000 under MSRP at the same dealer. I KNEW that the next person to buy my old truck was going to be taken for a ride, but I was pretty happy at the time because my pocketbook benefitted.

https://www.garyforcehonda.com/inve...ator-sport-4wd-4d-crew-cab-1c6hjtag8nl125483/

It's probably not cool to forget that we were all super happy about it when the dealership wrote us the trade in check, but the truth is, that high trade in value is being paid for by our neighbors. We had a little financial blood on our hands if we ever traded in between 2021 and 2023.

But that isn't real. That was a pandemic. That changed every pricing model, and we just had 14 months of Gladiator Rubicons selling for under $50k out the door with $63,000 MSRPS. How do you possibly expect a market that has been flooded with $15,000 discounts to offer you 80% of what you paid for It when it was new for a used model?

So basically with this. My vehicle price did not go down substantially. KBB is full of shit. I checked other pricing, I checked the actual market. (the market never lies) and the prices are still the same.. And others here have confirmed that the trade in for my JTR is ~$40k and I've also seen them selling for $47k online.

Maybe KBB was broken. Who knows.. And yes, when my car is worth $40k trade in one day and then the next day I go to KBB and it says it's worth $20k private party.. Yeah that is like my house exploding in my current situation.

That's not me getting mad that's me being honest. The last thing I need, is "Oh hey I FINALLY paid off enough to be able to sell it" and then find out the price dropped $20-$30k.

But that didn't happen, so.. All good.

I'm not even going to talk about the "pandemic" or what you said about blood on hands.. As far as I'm concerned there is a fuck load of blood on SOME peoples' hands.. but it's not Jeep owners who got high trade ins during the "pandemic."

 

[ScottBeach]

Hootbro. Lost track 5 pages deep.

Wasn't my intention to make lite of his situation at all.

If it's urgent carmax is usually fast but not max offer. Selling private can take time you might not have and take your focus on your job hunt.

 

[Hootbro]

Hootbro. Lost track 5 pages deep.

Wasn't my intention to make lite of his situation at all.

If it's urgent carmax is usually fast but not max offer. Selling private can take time you might not have and take your focus on your job hunt.

No biggie, I am even losing track of who and what. Probably all that needed to be said was done on the first two pages.

 

[JamesWyatt]

Always get your trade value by simply visiting the dealer. Add $1K to whatever they quote you, which can usually be negotiated if you're willing to buy that day.

As far as retail value, just find them for sale online, take an average, and subtract some for final sale value. All websites that offer online valuations are error prone.

The Gladiator specifically:

• Pre-COVID, Gladiators regularly sold for $10K off sticker just like any full-size truck did. Then when you drove it off the lot, you still lost $5K-$7K. Those days are back.
• The Gladiator is not a Wrangler. Gladiators have BMW-level depreciation. Even Wrangler resale is suffering since large discounts are starting to hit the 2024 Wranglers due to Jeep's delusional MSRPs.

If you have a Gladiator and want out, just find something you like that has an insane discount to offset being upside down. Otherwise, you're stuck with it. Eat PB&J sandwiches for a year and double/triple your vehicle payments.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Always get your trade value by simply visiting the dealer. Add $1K to whatever they quote you, which can usually be negotiated if you're willing to buy that day.

As far as retail value, just find them for sale online, take an average, and subtract some for final sale value. All websites that offer online valuations are error prone.

The Gladiator specifically:

• Pre-COVID, Gladiators regularly sold for $10K off sticker just like any full-size truck did. Then when you drove it off the lot, you still lost $5K-$7K. Those days are back.
• The Gladiator is not a Wrangler. Gladiators have BMW-level depreciation. Even Wrangler resale is suffering since large discounts are starting to hit the 2024 Wranglers due to Jeep's delusional MSRPs.

If you have a Gladiator and want out, just find something you like that has an insane discount to offset being upside down. Otherwise, you're stuck with it. Eat PB&J sandwiches for a year and double/triple your vehicle payments.

I love how I'm being lectured to on financial stuff but then I'm getting advice to trade it in instead of selling it privately.

Trading in is a convenience. Lately my mind has shifted.. and I'm not going to do things that set money on fire.

I will get way more if I sell it privately. Then there's no worry about being underwater on "trade in value" or whatever a dealership wants to give me.

And again. I did research for YEARS .. "The Gladiator is not a Wrangler" ... in context ..All evidence I've seen over years and years of seeing the prices in the used market including RIGHT NOW.. tell me that the Gladiator is in fact just like the Wrangler value wise.

I dunno. Keep telling me I'm wrong. I'm looking at ACTUAL listings.. ACTUAL dealerships andI also have like 3-4 years two of them BEFORE the pandemic when I was looking at the prices of all sorts of Jeeps.

This is completely pointless. I'm done explaining 378297858935879 times that I my vehicle DID not lose value.. That I'm not complaining about anything and all this..

I've spent way too much time today correcting people to probably a absolutely colossally pointless endeavor.

 

[JamesWyatt]

I love how I'm being lectured to on financial stuff but then I'm getting advice to trade it in instead of selling it privately.

Trading in is a convenience. Lately my mind has shifted.. and I'm not going to do things that set money on fire.

I will get way more if I sell it privately. Then there's no worry about being underwater on "trade in value" or whatever a dealership wants to give me.

And again. I did research for YEARS .. "The Gladiator is not a Wrangler" ... in context ..All evidence I've seen over years and years of seeing the prices in the used market including RIGHT NOW.. tell me that the Gladiator is in fact just like the Wrangler value wise.

I dunno. Keep telling me I'm wrong. I'm looking at ACTUAL listings.. ACTUAL dealerships andI also have like 3-4 years two of them BEFORE the pandemic when I was looking at the prices of all sorts of Jeeps.

This is completely pointless. I'm done explaining 378297858935879 times that I my vehicle DID not lose value.. That I'm not complaining about anything and all this..

I've spent way too much time today correcting people to probably a absolutely colossally pointless endeavor.

Dude, do whatever the fuck you want to. Good luck to you.

 

[Hootbro]

Is selling private party going to cover the loan or you going to have to add something to cover the difference?

I can say though that selling something like this and still having a bank loan that has to get paid and title released for the new buyer is a bit tricky. It is doable, but you are going to deal with a lot of tire kicker and time waster potential buyers.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I go camping with a cheap tent, cheap cooler, cheap lantern and a sleeping bag I bought in about 1980. Doesn't take anything for a vehicle to camp with. Heck, used to sleep in the back of a Rambler station wagon.
Gym membership? Naw, I have even asked others "why" and don't get a really logical answer other than it forces them to exercise because now they are paying a fee.
I can exercise at home for free - and use tips from my brother, a former national champion drug-free body builder. (Not that I really do much of it, so a gym membership would be a total waste for me - time to get there, time to get back, gas, etc.
I get that some really want that stuff badly. It's just not for me.

My first apartment was pretty crappy - green shag carpet on all floors (including bathroom and teeny kitchen area!), my first chair was a lawn chair I salvaged and re-webbed. My first TV came from a dump, I resurrected it in electronics class and used it for a couple of years. My first TV stand - 4 concrete blocks and an old salvaged 2x10 draped with some scrap fabric.
Yeah, I remember those days - couch came from a thrift store, free because someone had cut the legs off of it. I put it up on blocks.

I don't worry about "entertaining" where I live because the house is too small for more than 4 people in a room at one time. It's crowded when my wife has her quilting friends over - they take up 2 rooms.

I bet thousands of people have run into the situation where a job falls apart and the next one doesn't cover the bills and they have to unload a vehicle - only to find they are up-side-down on it. Count it on - it's happening to people all over the country - with Jeeps, with Fords, with whatever.
Sometimes one has to cut their losses and run and not look back and brush the sweat off their forehead and breathe a big WHEW and move forward.
I've dodged some bullets - like farming in the 1980s. Owed for equipment, owed for a lot of stuff, the farm sale gave me enough to drive around and find a place to live, and nothing more. I literally left with nothing, broke even. Thankfully my then vehicle (ironically, a Jeep Comanche) was paid for and my new wife's car was paid for and she at least had a job and health insurance. I had none of that.
I landed a job making a whopping 14K a YEAR, in 1990. my wife took on another job - serving burgers at McDonalds, every evening and every weekend plus her 40 hour job paying crap - she was a secretary.

There are so many ways to save money.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Is selling private party going to cover the loan or you going to have to add something to cover the difference?

I can say though that selling something like this and still having a bank loan that has to get paid and title released for the new buyer is a bit tricky. It is doable, but you are going to deal with a lot of tire kicker and time waster potential buyers.

Gotta get permission from the bank. Been there on farm equipment.

I did better selling my Silverado to a local Chevy dealer. Private sales suck around here. Everyone wanted to take the WJ I was trying to sell to someone for a day, or take it home so their son could look at it, or whine about this or that. Screw private sales.

 

[foxwalkhq]

One thing I will say. I love how it seems every thread gets so much conversation and sub-threads pop off and it's

Is selling private party going to cover the loan or you going to have to add something to cover the difference?

I can say though that selling something like this and still having a bank loan that has to get paid and title released for the new buyer is a bit tricky. It is doable, but you are going to deal with a lot of tire kicker and time waster potential buyers.

You have to cover the difference.

 

[Hootbro]

You have to cover the difference.

No shit Sherlock. The question was framed asking if you had a difference between what you owed and what you expect to get on a private sale?

I will give it to you, sure is some asshat comments in this thread and probably a few of mine in there as well and will take the hit for that.

I can say though, you act like the smartest guy in the room but are in a shit situation of your own making and taking offense to any legitimate questions asked of you.

Good luck navigating this.

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