My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[JTGuy]

Have any other vehicle follow a JT and let's see how it does for problems. The Mojave road of 150 miles of wash board and dust would be a good start. Then do a BDR with some side trails. The Rubicon trail will torture test anything.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Have any other vehicle follow a JT and let's see how it does for problems. The Mojave road of 150 miles of wash board and dust would be a good start. Then do a BDR with some side trails. The Rubicon trail will torture test anything.

Check out these folks - I've been to some of those places. The videos make it look a heck of a lot more tame and level than any of it is.

https://www.youtube.com/@JeepClubIsrael?app=desktop

 

[CJ5w4wdSmokyOnMyTail]

OP is more even-tempered than I would be in his shoes. So far I've been lucky with Pentastar engines. Mine has over 105,000 miles and never a single problem. My JTM has 27,000 and never a single problem. I hope Jeep makes it right for the OP.

 

[chr15m]

Well I read it, the whole thing, which frankly felt like a test considering the OPs picture was like an intrusive thought the whole time.

Bum deal I suppose. Unfortunately for me I did not how "terrible" the Pentastar was until I joined here. My only previous experience with them were the two Dodge Journeys my uncle drove for work. Both logged 500k miles, each.

Honestly though, Ive driven Toyotas pretty much my whole life and while people always talked about how reliable they were I pretty much never shared that sentiment. It is what it is, I could detail the many issues I had with my Toyotas but in actuality I would most likely forget some of them. More than I can remember.

 

[Gvsukids]

My engine woes continue; burning oil from the front of the engine after just having that same part replaced in April.

 

[adamjedgar]

As i said, we have a 200 series landcruiser with V8 diesel...a weapon of a vehicle (Especially for towing). Any pentastaf fan here who thinks they tow well hasn't driven a v8 diesel. Also, my point about towing was a comparison between mine towing a trailer with ride on mower and a hilux pulling a 2.5 ton van.

I'm not so much worried about lemon laws... I like this car, I dont want a new one. To me this car is like family, it's part of me and I am attached to it...im not interested in another one, I want this one to work properly.

Finally, I got a call from Stellantis today...im definately getting a new engine and there is one here stock.

 

[Stuntman Mike]

My condolences for what happend with your JT.

But I have to say, this sad story was very well written, I really enjoyed reading it.

Maybe you should write a book sometimes ...

 

[Maximus Gladius]

the internal combustion chambers within the engine were borescoped and it was noted that there was excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers of the engine.

This was the reason I suggested a catch can. The “excessive carbon build up” is oil getting up into the intake manifold and down the combustion chambers and creating your carbon build up. There isn’t enough gas additive that could get all that off and the oil that’s getting in there needs to be caught in a catch can first. Then maybe a good diet of gas cleaner can work it’s way through all that carbon.

What's a catch can have to do with a rear main?
A plugged PCV can result in crankcase pressure, but I have a feeling with the use this one is seeing, it's dirt and water getting to that rear main if it's leaking.
You must run 0 pressure to negative pressure in the crankcase.
Only the PCV handles that, not a catch can.
Catch can only deals with oil getting past the cyclonic oil separator and PCV system - and usually, if the PCV valve is ok, it means a lot of operation at low intake vacuum. You need to keep the air velocity up to a certain point for the oil separator to work properly, running low RPM under load, trying to keep the RPM down, etc. will cause excess oil getting into the intake.
The solution for cars like my Javelin with dual quad carbs and a race cam, which cause very low vacuum at the intake manifold, is a special PCV replacement that is a simple tiny orifice.

These PCVs seem to operate in a very narrow vacuum band - high and they shut off flow, low and they open wide, with very little in between (although the spring appears to have multiple rates, the way it's wound)

Anyway, back to my original thing - the catch can only impacts oil up top.

So forget I mentioned the rear main seal, the thought made sense to me and if we had enough time for me to explain further and for you to listen what I’m trying to say, you might lean a little in my direction but for now, are you going to suggest a catch can for his excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers or am I wrong here too?

 

[Smokeenbandt]

Alot of the problems in developed countries like ours, including engine choices in modern vehicles, can be deduced down to one thing.

I've had 3 jeeps with the pentastar and have been pretty happy with them. The worst problem I had was with a 2014 Wrangler that developed a tiny leak in the radiator. I really hate to see people like you though, go through nightmare scenarios like this with their jeeps but it happens with many brands.

This

My ‘20 Overland has been trouble free minus bad batteries off the lot. (Knock knock). Dealership never would do the right thing, so finally replaced both at my cost and no issues since.

My wife has a ‘19 Honda Odyssey that could fill up a couple of pages as well. We have been going around with dealership and Honda corporate for 2 years and it is still not resolved.

 

[Smokeenbandt]

As some of you know, i purchased a new Jeep Gladiator Rubicon at the end of October 2022.
It came already fitted out with a 2" lift kit and 33" x 12.5 Yokahama mud terrain tyres on 21" rims
I had a bullbar, towbar and 13,000 pound Warn winch fitted as part of the deal

Up to the first service, the car was great, however, the very next morning after that first service problems arose.

Transmission seemed weird in second and i noticed a very slight engine ping as low throttle settings...the pinging gradually got worse over the next few months until at the second 24,000km service i had the dealership take a serious look at the engine. They contacted Jeep and initially put an upper cylinder cleaner through the engine...which worked for about 2 weeks.

I then took the car back and once again Jeep were contacted and from what service department told me, the internal combustion chambers within the engine were borescoped and it was noted that there was excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers of the engine. It was determined that the engine needed some parts in order to correct the problem, however, for the next 6 months...silence. Whenever i called to enquire what was going on with the arrival of parts it was always the same answer...they haven't arrived yet.

At about 35,000km the transmission failed in my driveway at home. After some jiggling around and switching off the engine and restarting, eventually i was able to get the car into drive and it would move forward. I contacted the dealership and drove it straight down to them. For the next 2 weeks it sat in their worship waiting to be looked at (the workshops are already running way behind and often a 2 week wait is minimum even on emergency works such as this).

Eventually i got a call from the dealership who informed me that the transmission was stuffed and a new one was being installed. Fortunately, there was one available in the local MElbourne warehouse and it was immediately installed (that was fantastic).

Ironically enough, 2 days into the transmission work, i get another phone call saying the engine parts had arrived and they were going to pull the heads off the engine and decarbon it, whilst also replacing whatever component it was that was believed to have caused the excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers of some of the cylinders. i now know it was the PCV valve that had caused the problem and was replaced. The idea it takes 6 months to get a PCV valve is ludicrous and I'm still completely miffed as to how that could have really been the hold up on the engine repairs...in the meantime the car did over 20,000km with a pinging engine during that 6 month period. I cant imagine that was good for the engine, however, no one seemed to care other than me about this fact.

Anyway, about a week later, i go and check on the car in the workshop...i look through the workshop roller door and see my two engine heads lying in the back of the ute without any kind of packing or protection ...it was if they had just been dumped into the tray without a care. That really pissed me off...alloy heads dumped into a steel tray without at least cardboard padding..WTF??? I held my anger and said nothing.

The next week i get the car back...much to my delight. However, the very next morning on a cold start i cant believe my ears...very loud timing chain rattle. This engine had never once done that before...how is it possible that straight after reassembly of the top end by mechanics I'm getting timing chain rattle? Something clearly wasn't right. I contacted the dealership and they said it was normal, even after i complained it had never done this before in the 35,000km i had driven the car.

At the end of that week, my son and i were walking on our driveway and he happened to notice oil on the concrete under my jeep. I climbed underneath the car only to find the engine sum plug so loose i could undo it with just two fingers and absolutely no effort. We got a socket and tightened it up. I then went over the entire engine bay checking it. Something didn't appear right but i couldn't put a finger on what it was...something was missing.

After about 15 minutes of going around the engine i suddenly came across a bracket along the top rhs of the engine where a round hose was supposed to be mounted...i went looking for that hose and down behind the engine dropped over the top of the bell housing i found it...the transmission breather. It was a simple thing to sort out and took 30 seconds...no big deal, however, in light of the oil drain plug being left so loose i was pretty pissed off. I rang the service manager and he gave me the lame ass excuse "oh we've had those sump plugs come loose...its not our fault. It was at this point i lost my cool and blasted the absolute shit out of him. For a start, my gladiator sump plug has a rubber washer...when tightened up properly they do not fu#$ing vibrate loose!

Ok so fast forward a couple of months, everything mostly seems ok with the exception that I'm sure there is diff whine coming from one of the axles (or the new transmission?) and at the 48,000 service i take it to a different jeep dealership who are great and very proactive with the car. I update them on the past history of the car, they take it for a drive, however, given the slow speed limits in the area around the dealership, they cannot get the car up to the needed 90km/hr to hear the diff whine. I say to them, we will book a time in the near future for a mechanic to come on a 20km round trip with me to some motorways so he can listen to it...in the meantime i needed to travel interstate for a few months for work...so we would look at this when i got back.

Well...the shit really hit the fan. Whilst away, i went 4wding a few times in deep water and at the end of one particular trip, the jeep broke down in the middle of a major arterial road in Sydney (centre lane peak hour traffic on a sunday evening). We were stranded unable to even leave the vehicle for more than 1 hour waiting for a tow truck.

The jeep was towed back to a Jeep workshop and sat there for 2 weeks with nothing being done to it. To cut a long story short, the Sydney dealership found that water had entered the transmission because the breather was not connected to the top of it by the previous mechanics who installed it (the same ones who left the engine sump plug loose and the top of the breather hose down across the back of the engine). After almost 2 months, i got my car back with another new transmission (yes its now had 2 more in addition to its original).

Im stoked and put a tank of fuel in the car in readiness for a return trip with the car from Sydney to Melbourne (about 900km.). Halfway to Melbourne, an error code pops up on the dash...i plug in my scanner tool and it tells me the low oil pressure sensor is stuck open.

I manage to get the car to Melbourne and strangely enough, the error code doesnt reappear again.

I was only in Melbourne for a week or so and i had to return to Sydney...just 4 hours into the return journey, i stop for fuel and smell burning oil. I look. underneath the car and to my amazement there is the equivalent of about 4 tablespoons full of oil on the ground under my car...and its dripping more whilst I'm looking at it. I immediately text the service manager in Sydney and warn him the car is coming back to his workshop.

The next day i drop off the car, they look at it and cannot immediately diagnose the problem other than to say, it definitely engine oil and not the transmission.

My next call from them is to explain that somehow, the oil cooler in the engine V is cracked and leaking oil.

Anyway, oil cooler repairs are completed after a week or so and i get the car back just in time to head back home to Melbourne.

You wont believe this...in almost exactly the same place as the last Melbourne trip (only this time on the southbound side of the same hwy), i can smell oil again. I stop the car and its leaking oil again. There is no possibility of driving it back to sydney, so i ring the Melbourne jeep dealership who did the 48,000km service on the car and plead to them for urgent help. They are brilliant, and my car is in their worship the very next morning. The service manager and mechanic take me to the car up on the hoist and explain that the engine oil cooler is leaking oil...badly. Im shocked..."its just been supposedly replaced in Sydney" i tell them. They look at each other with raised eyebrows!

Anyway, i explain to them about the other pinging issue that had now gotten much worse, the really bad timing chain rattle on cold starts, and that i was certain that i could at times hear one of the tappets knocking sometimes. They ask if i can give them permission for a mechanic to take the car home for a night or two so they can drive the car for an extended period to really assess the noises I'm claiming to be able to hear.

well last Friday afternoon, i get "the phone call"...you know the bad phone call. The service manager tells me that they have gone over the engine and are convinced that the issues with it are such that in all honesty, they would prefer to put an entirely new engine in the car. They are concerned that I've had such a bad run with it, and given they really don't want to try to fix a lemon and be burnt themselves, a request has been put into Jeep for a replacement pentastar v6.

So...i have a $115,000k AUD Gladiator that in the last 5 months has been in a Jeep workshop for almost 3 months of that time. Honestly, WTF am i paying car payments at the rate of $1869 per month, for a vehicle i don't even have in my garage? In addition to that, I've spent almost $2000 on hire cars (i know i know it should be a lot more given the amount of time, however, I'm trying to only hire a car when i absolutely need one for work).

The irony of all of the above...i absolutely love my Jeep, i really do. Its by far the best car i have ever owned myself and i love the Tonka truck look. Ive had it in some tough tracks as well as on the beach and absolutely loved it, a brilliant 4wd given its wheelbase. Its my absolute pride and joy and i would buy another one in a heartbeat. The only thing is, if i could give one piece of advice to Jeep engineers...it has a huge pitfall...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP PUTTING THAT SHIT V6 ENGINE AND 550 N/m TRANSMISSION IN A NEARLY 3 TON GLADIATOR??? Even the Wrangler has a v8 option as well as a stronger transmission at 750N/m and the Wranglers are a lighter car.

YOU HAVE GOT FUCKING ROCKS IN YOUR HEADS.

FIND A SMALL V8 DIESEL (like the 4.5 litre engine in my wifes 2019 toyota 200 series landcruiser) and build gladiators with a decent engine ffs! I don't give a shit about environmental protection when this piece of shit engine is burning and leaking oil all over the fucking ground, and running so badly its pollution system is shitting itself trying to cope (I've had 3 failed O2 sensors as well).

I wont even get into towing...i got absolutely eaten/overtaken by a Toyota Hilux (2.8ltr 4cyl turbo diesel) towing a 2.5 ton caravan and you know what i was towing? A fucking 440kg trailer with a small ride on lawnmower on it!!!

Not only that, t oadd insult to injury, the Hilux is pulling that 2.5 ton van whilst burning on a little more than half the fuel i was!

BTW...just to cap off...apparently jeep sales in Australia have had the bum fall out (dropping from something like 39,000 vehicles in 2022 to 4900 vehicles in 2023). Clearly someone is deaf! Instead of fixing the bloody design issues with Jeep vehicles, the solution...drop the price by $20,000 AUD. Fucking great for me....my $115k AUD Gladiator just had the ass fall out of its value so much so that now i owe a shitload more on the car than its actually worth thanks to that retail screw-over!

Im sorry for descending into a swearing rant...but I'm hopeful that others will follow suit and maybe someone at Jeep will grow a brain! So close to an iconic vehicle but so far from fit for purpose given that engine and gearbox paring!

BTW...as an afterthought...some trivia for those who may not know...

the pentastar v6 engine uses old technology "port injection". Port injection doesnt operate as efficiently as direct injection, however, one known benefit of port injection is that fuel is injected into the port before the intake valve means that the upper cylinder should stay relatively clean compared with direct injection because it cleans the recycled oil out of the intake ports and around the valve seats. Apparently my Pentastar engine doesnt work by those rules...so that gives an idea of how bad the near new PCV valve was at 12,000 km service when it started pinging! (with the exception of two tanks of 95, i have only ever run the highest octane fuel in this car which in Aus is 98)

Very sorry to hear your struggles with the vehicle and I really hope the new engine will give you some peace.

 

[JTGuy]

My Gladiator has been trouble free so far. When it's not, it's gone and I will move on from Jeep. I put about 10K on it a year, it will never see 100K with me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My Gladiator has been trouble free so far. When it's not, it's gone and I will move on from Jeep. I put about 10K on it a year, it will never see 100K with me.

So, you are saying you fit the type that a company has one shot with you and if it goes badly, you won't consider them again?

So forget I mentioned the rear main seal, the thought made sense to me and if we had enough time for me to explain further and for you to listen what I’m trying to say, you might lean a little in my direction but for now, are you going to suggest a catch can for his excessive carbon buildup in the combustion chambers or am I wrong here too?

Catch can is nothing but an oil filter - removing oil from air much like similar systems in your shop's compressed air. The better ones have a cyclonic type "sorter" (oil is heavy so is slung out) and a fiber or similar filter to also block oil but let air through.
So they do nothing at all for seals, leaks, gaskets or anything for that matter, other than helping remove oil from the air headed from the crankcase into the intake manifold.
No impact on leaks of any sort at all.

There's a lot of reasons for "excessive carbon build-up". And in some cases, some folks see any carbon and assume it's bad. Not necessarily. Excessive, yes, but there will be some carbon, depending on those reasons or factors I alluded to in the first sentence of this paragraph.
Those reasons can include driving habits, driving speeds, short drives, not running the engine hot enough, type of oil used among other things.
If the PCV system is defective or the driver themselves drives in such a way the PCV isn't going to operate in the design range it's intended for - they will see more oil get through ad thus more carbon.
People tend to over-simplify - it's not that cut and dried, but the other thing people, humans, need to do is place blame.

Not everyone "needs" one, the majority won't, but for the rest - whatever, go for it.

 

[Labswine]

My Gladiator has been trouble free so far. When it's not, it's gone and I will move on from Jeep. I put about 10K on it a year, it will never see 100K with me.

All my past jeeps have gone well over 100K miles. I had a '96 ZJ Laredo with the I-6, that had over 240K miles on her. Gave her to charity because the second AC compressor died, and other electrical issues but, I definitely got my moneys worth out of her, and the engine was still strong and didn't burn a drop of oil. Those I-6s were virtually indestructible. That and my '08 GC Overland (Hemi) are the two I miss the most

The only reason Jeep gave up on the I-6 was they had reached the limits of getting decent fuel economy out of them. It wasn't hard to get decent fuel economy from them...my '96 ZJ, I had swapped the factory 19lb/hr fuel injectors for 22 lb/hr multi-point injectors (Mustang 5.0L injectors were a direct swap), opened up the intake and exhaust, and I would typically get at least 22 MPG commuting to and from work (S.E. MA to the western Boston 'burbs so heavy traffic) and, the best I saw on the highway was just over 25 MPGs on a trip from S.E. MA to Orlando, FL and back. It was possible to get those I-6s to get better mileage. What I get from my JT is pretty much similar.

 

[ZeeJay]

All my past jeeps have gone well over 100K miles. I had a '96 ZJ Laredo with the I-6, that had over 240K miles on her. Gave her to charity because the second AC compressor died, and other electrical issues but, I definitely got my moneys worth out of her, and the engine was still strong and didn't burn a drop of oil. Those I-6s were virtually indestructible. That and my '08 GC Overland (Hemi) are the two I miss the most

The only reason Jeep gave up on the I-6 was they had reached the limits of getting decent fuel economy out of them. It wasn't hard to get decent fuel economy from them...my '96 ZJ, I had swapped the factory 19lb/hr fuel injectors for 22 lb/hr multi-point injectors (Mustang 5.0L injectors were a direct swap), opened up the intake and exhaust, and I would typically get at least 22 MPG commuting to and from work (S.E. MA to the western Boston 'burbs so heavy traffic) and, the best I saw on the highway was just over 25 MPGs on a trip from S.E. MA to Orlando, FL and back. It was possible to get those I-6s to get better mileage. What I get from my JT is pretty much similar.

Yeah but thankfully it’s gone…..I mean where would be without 3.6 catch can drama.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The only reason Jeep gave up on the I-6 was they had reached the limits of getting decent fuel economy out of them. It wasn't hard to get decent fuel economy from them...my '96 ZJ, I had swapped the factory 19lb/hr fuel injectors for 22 lb/hr multi-point injectors

A big reason is likely tooling. The 4.0 was quite long in tooth by the early 2000s.
It was also based on a very old design - the AMC 4 cyl engine. The head design had been changed more than once, changing port positions and shape, they went to a split pattern cam - giving more power and economy, changed the intake design about 96 if I recall, but if referring to the 4.0 in particular, it was old, and so was the tooling.

I've done the injector swap and found no difference in either power or economy. So far no one has showed any factual difference with dyno testing.
In theory, it sounds fine, but with enough turbulence of the incoming air, they shouldn't actually make a lot of difference.

This pic is right after I put on a newly restored fuel rail, new regulator, and the Ford injectors, but wasn't impressed.

I have an experimental aluminum head I may put on someday if I get the energy and time.
Already have a Comp cam and roller rockers so it should be ready for other upgrades.

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