OIL, 0-20 or otherwise (couldn't find the other oil threads)

[ShadowsPapa]

I’d like to know how they determined oil flow was restricted in the head. That’s my main worry… they are just throwing parts at it to get past warranty and not addressing the root cause

Yes, but........... they are doing something no one else seems to be doing, and, there's very little else to impact oil flow in that area.
I also would like to SEE what they found, where, and how.

There's really almost nothing left if the head, lash adjusters for intake and exhaust, followers for intake and exhaust, and the intake cam are replaced. That's pretty much the entire right bank oiling system.

I'd literally pay to have them ship me the head they removed.

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[WK2JT]

Yes, but........... they are doing something no one else seems to be doing, and, there's very little else to impact oil flow in that area.
I also would like to SEE what they found, where, and how.

There's really almost nothing left if the head, lash adjusters for intake and exhaust, followers for intake and exhaust, and the intake cam are replaced. That's pretty much the entire right bank oiling system.

I'd literally pay to have them ship me the head they removed.

Guess I’ll find out in approximately another 42K miles. Assuming if it’s an oiling issue from the head, I’d expect the flow to remain consistent and wear the parts on about the same interval.

 

[Deleted member 67086]

I’d like to know how they determined oil flow was restricted in the head. That’s my main worry… they are just throwing parts at it to get past warranty and not addressing the root cause

I kind of feel like the first dealership fired the proverbial parts cannon (cams, lifters, rockers, etc.) trying to address the problem. I can’t help but think that Jeep knows what the root cause is for this issue. Them not owning it and communicating it makes the issue worse for Jeep owners, and ultimately Jeep. Some feel this problem affects an incredibly small number of engines, which makes Jeep’s lack of communication of this issue even more unfortunate. If they would like to maintain their already dwindling customer base, and improve their subpar reliability reputation, they need to be forthcoming about things like this and address the problems, not bury their head in the sand. Any automobile manufacturer can have problems, it’s how they address them that instills confidence and maintains customers.

 

[FloridaAussie]

Unfortunately, engineers are not immune to political (internal politics, needed to clarify so I don’t get banned) pressure and also lose those battles most of the time.

Engineers are people too.

 

[FloridaAussie]

I run 5W-30 with no issues. I use that weight due to the heat in Florida.

Same here; I just switched over to 5W30 when I hit 25,000 miles on me Jeep.

 

[Deleted member 67086]

For those looking for an informational video on oil viscosities, this video is decent.

 

[Stan H]

Engineers are people too.

Now, inhuman anamatronic AI driven Androids filled with evil computer coding bent on world domination.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We do not have a thin oil problem but some who insist on finding something have no end of "resources".

 

[Badunit]

The 3.6L is known for cam and rocker arm failures. It was the rollers on the older version now it is the high-lift parts. None of us know how prevalent the problem really is, percentage-wise. Some say their shops are constantly replacing cams and can't keep them in stock. Others say it is a rare occurrence and the Internet is just an echo chamber. But there is a nationwide backorder on the parts, which lends more credence to it being a relatively common problem. Until the cause is determined, how can anyone be so sure that thicker oil won't help? Sure, anecdotally there are reports of failures even with thicker oil but that doesn't mean it doesn't help, only that it is not a 100% cure. Or maybe it makes it worse or does nothing, who really knows until the problem is identified and solved. Maybe it is a materials/hardening problem. Maybe it is a design flaw. There are reports of the oiling holes getting plugged. Maybe it is an oil filter problem or manufacturing debris. Who knows. Maybe using thicker oil is just grasping at straws but at least it is an attempt at a solution.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Back order doesn't mean a whole lot to me as there are backorders on things that rarely need to be replaced as well, and still shortages of some parts out there.
MAY be a clue but not a solid indicator when other things are also on BO.
But humans like neatly fitting puzzle pieces.

Until I see the actual parts, the "reports" are just grasps at a simple explanation. There's been no pictures, no tech saying "here are the things we found in the head".
"Show me" .......

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Anyone who comes across a tech who says "we found this problem" - and says it's the head, or for that matter, any number of other parts where there's a question about "what happened" (like the poor fellow who was dealing with aux switch wire installs and has PDC ground issues, for example)
I'll pay for shipping to my home so I can dig into those things (for that fellow with the issues after the aux switch wiring boo-boo), I would, at his choice - repair it and send it back IF IT'S POSSIBLE, or forward it along to another if he so chose.
If someone says "the HEAD is the problem for these CAMs" -
well, stand behind that statement if you are a tech and send me the head - I pay shipping - and I'll dig into it and see if there's anything to it, or if it was a "toss mud and see what sticks" type of thing.

 

[FloridaAussie]

My understanding is that the manufacturers recommend 0W20 to be used in vehicles in the USA. But in other countries they recommend viscosities such as 5W30.

I believe the EPA and whoever else has a hand in anything to do with cars, is that they push for better gas mileage and punish manufacturers that don't achieve predetermined results.

I'm pretty sure that manufacturers would prefer your engine to grenade the day after warranty expires, but there's a balance somewhere between repeat business and those no longer brand loyal.

Looking at oil manufacturers, they engineer their oils to standards of viscosity and temperature combinations.

I'm going to run with whatever temperature recommendations I have for my climate; Destin area. 0W20 in winter, 5W30 in summer. I'll consider 0W30 and 0W40 in the future. Oil change intervals no more than 5000 miles; I saw someone mentioned changing filter mid interval and I think that's an interesting idea, but I don't think the filter would be obstructed at 2500 miles.

 

[Hootbro]

My understanding is that the manufacturers recommend 0W20 to be used in vehicles in the USA. But in other countries they recommend viscosities such as 5W30.

I believe the EPA and whoever else has a hand in anything to do with cars, is that they push for better gas mileage and punish manufacturers that don't achieve predetermined results.

I'm pretty sure that manufacturers would prefer your engine to grenade the day after warranty expires, but there's a balance somewhere between repeat business and those no longer brand loyal.

Looking at oil manufacturers, they engineer their oils to standards of viscosity and temperature combinations.

I'm going to run with whatever temperature recommendations I have for my climate; Destin area. 0W20 in winter, 5W30 in summer. I'll consider 0W30 and 0W40 in the future. Oil change intervals no more than 5000 miles; I saw someone mentioned changing filter mid interval and I think that's an interesting idea, but I don't think the filter would be obstructed at 2500 miles.

Globally, the Gladiator and any other FCA product with the 3.6L PUG engine calls out 0W-20 only with no alternates listed.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/next-oil-change-opinion.71700/page-2#post-1230525

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Globally, the Gladiator and any other FCA product with the 3.6L PUG engine calls out 0W-20 only with no alternates listed.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/next-oil-change-opinion.71700/page-2#post-1230525

Yes, and in the EU, it has to be a lifetime number. In other words, they can't change it or say "use xxx over yyy kilometers"
If it says 0w20 it must be capable of using that for the life of the vehicle.

I'm pretty sure that manufacturers would prefer your engine to grenade the day after warranty expires, but there's a balance somewhere between repeat business and those no longer brand loyal.

That's the old-school, what my papa thought, internet lore. Not factual, if it ever was.

My understanding is that the manufacturers recommend 0W20 to be used in vehicles in the USA. But in other countries they recommend viscosities such as 5W30.

As I've posted elsewhere - in the case of the PUG 3.6, it's also a matter of the other controls which are now hydraulic. It started many years ago with Mercedes and others using the oil pressure to control variable volume intake runners and several other features of the thing that were all operated by the OIL in the engine. Mess with viscosity, and things may not work (a Mercedes master tech friend and I have discussed some of this over the last couple of decades)
5w20 or 5w30 are hardly different from each other - if it makes you feel better, go for it. the viscosities actually overlap quite a bit.

I saw someone mentioned changing filter mid interval and I think that's an interesting idea, but I don't think the filter would be obstructed at 2500 miles.

This is from a FOUR CYLINDER car owner manual from the mid-1970s -

Short drives KILL YOUR OIL.

For the 6 and 8 cylinder versions of this car, it was 7500 miles and I'd have to look at the other recommendations for filter and such.

 

[FloridaAussie]

Globally, the Gladiator and any other FCA product with the 3.6L PUG engine calls out 0W-20 only with no alternates listed.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/next-oil-change-opinion.71700/page-2#post-1230525

My other cars are Subarus. I guess I was applying what they have done. I know there are other manufacturers doing the same thing. Maybe Jeep is an outlier in that respect?

I'm still using the theory of oil viscosities and temps and applying them to my climate.

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