Oil - going from 0w20 to 0w40

[Sw00per]

@Minty JL did you happen to watch this?

The Motor Oil Geek

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[ShadowsPapa]

@Minty JL did you happen to watch this?

The Motor Oil Geek

Be careful what you read from that.......... if you don't watch the whole thing and listen carefully, you might believe that we should switch viscosity, but he's not saying that.



(That video has been posted here a few times if onlookers are wondering - but some want to read into it what isn't really there)

 

[Mike5]

So based on the first and only Jeep?
I wonder how many guys swear off women if the first is a lemon?

Comparing a Jeep to a woman? Bet your a real catch!

 

[Jteakus]

I waited to read this thread until it had six pages, What a great way to enjoy Sunday morning coffee,

 

[DanW]

Ok, this going to be a highly debated thread for numerous reasons and I get it. Yes, I have always been an advocate for using what the manufacturer states. BUT it seems both Jeep and GM have screwed the pooch on this topic.

First, the 3.6 only on bank 2 the cam getting chewed up by the rockers once the Teflon coating wears away the damage begins as we know......why is this issue not an issue on the other 3 cams and rockers. Analysis would lead me to believe poor oiling or pressure.

Second case point, the recent recall on all GM vehicles equipped with the LT based 6.2 why is this relevant to Jeep and the 3.6.......both from the factory use 0w20 oil. I have watched hours of video from professional technicians and read several articles on the diagnosis procedures.

GMs diagnostic procedure to determine an issue or immenant engine failure is scanning for the Crank to Cam timing/correlation, if exceeds a specified threshold......engine replacement if it hasn't already failed. IF the values are within specification........drain engine oil, replace filter and fill with 0w40. Yes, that's the fix and is how ship now right off the assembly line.

So.......I will be a test monkey and I'm switching to 0w40 with today's oil change. Anything I can do to prolong engine life is a win with these 3.6s.......and there is currently a national back order on the cams with dealers saying 6 to 8 weeks.

Call me dumb, damn that's a good idea or state an educated or well articulated thought.

What is your source on the Teflon coating? There is a coating on wear parts, but according to my friend the Pentastar (gen 1) designer, it was a new coating developed to mitigate wear from the ESS. It was never used on the gen 1 engines.

0w40 should be just fine unless you use the start/stop. If you use that, I would stick with 0w20 or 5w20.

The reason GM went to the 0w40 had nothing to do with 0w20 causing a problem. In fact, they have moved right back to 0w20 once they corrected the problem. The problem was a combination of debris in the new engines and improper machinging of the cam surfaces causing massive bearing wear. The 0w40 was an attempt to increase the fluid barrier to compensate for the rough surface. Guess what? It did not work. My brother has a recalled engine. They did the 0w40 change and then told him he was fine and extended his warranty. He spoke to the service manager and he said they are seeing engines that passed the test and went to 0w40 still failing.

When those cam surfaces are properly machined (meaning smoothed), 0w20 provides more than enough fluid barrier to meet the same durability standard they´ve always met.

I have three PUG Pentastars. One in a 2018 JL, one in a 2021 Gladiator, and one in my daughter´s 2021 JL. The two JL´s have over 100k miles on them. My JL has been run hard, but very rarely on short trips and never uses ESS. The other has Etorque and is an automatic and sees mostly very short trips....the hardest duty cycle an engine can have, with many cold starts and many times not warming up fully. It also goes to 0 percent on the OLM and often goes well past the oil change light. It has seen oil changes over 10,000 miles, including one that went 14k. It has about 110k miles on it. It also runs the ESS, always. So MANY starts/stops. It has been run on bulk oil change shop oil which varies by brand. The owner, a friend of mine, buys whatever buik oil he can get the most cheaply. He says it is mostly Pennzoil, but sometimes others like Mobil full synthetic (all 0w20´s are full synthetic). That Mobil oil is not Mobil 1, btw. It is their cheaper Group III based synthetic with no GTL or PAO in it. This engine is running like new. Never an issue. I have started changing her oil and putting Mobil 1 EP in it to handle going past the oil life monitor, but she now brings it to me when it tells her the change is due. The JT/auto is driven more gently than my JL, because it is a manual. But the ESS is never used and it does do more towing. I fully expect to go well beyone 300k with all of these engines on 0w20. Time will gell, but there´s no issues so far.

That 14k mile oil cycle on the 2021 JL came on the cheap bulk oil. I should have done a UOA on it, but I would almost be afraid to look at it. LOL.

If one of those rockers was going to fail due to an oil issue, it would be that 2021. I will certainly post up if it does.

My suggestion to anyone worried about oil would be to go for the expensive stuff....Amsoil Signature, HPL, or Red Line. Those all have primarily PAO synthetic base stock. That´s where you´ll get the best wear protection and at the same time quick flow....I think the HPL pour point is something like 80 degrees below zero (F)!! That is CRAZY! They will also take much higher heat before oxidizing and breaking down than even the 40 weights. MUCH higher. And the bonus is they will keep an engine clean as it can be. But you´ll pay out the ass for those oils. I think HPL has a big sale coming up.

 

[DanW]

Comparing a Jeep to a woman? Bet your a real catch!

If I found a woman that compares to any of my Jeeps, she´d be the catch!

LOL!!! (Just kidding....maybe)

 

[Sw00per]

Be careful what you read from that.......... if you don't watch the whole thing and listen carefully, you might believe that we should switch viscosity, but he's not saying that.



(That video has been posted here a few times if onlookers are wondering - but some want to read into it what isn't really there)

At the end he cautions you about switching. I might just do an oil analysis next oil change to see if there is any actionable data.

 

[JTGuy]

A long time good friend and Baja Racer swares by BG products and has for years. I don't use it but this thing has me thinking.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What is your source on the Teflon coating? There is a coating on wear parts, but according to my friend the Pentastar (gen 1) designer, it was a new coating developed to mitigate wear from the ESS. It was never used on the gen 1 engines.

0w40 should be just fine unless you use the start/stop. If you use that, I would stick with 0w20 or 5w20.

The reason GM went to the 0w40 had nothing to do with 0w20 causing a problem. In fact, they have moved right back to 0w20 once they corrected the problem. The problem was a combination of debris in the new engines and improper machinging of the cam surfaces causing massive bearing wear. The 0w40 was an attempt to increase the fluid barrier to compensate for the rough surface. Guess what? It did not work. My brother has a recalled engine. They did the 0w40 change and then told him he was fine and extended his warranty. He spoke to the service manager and he said they are seeing engines that passed the test and went to 0w40 still failing.

When those cam surfaces are properly machined (meaning smoothed), 0w20 provides more than enough fluid barrier to meet the same durability standard they´ve always met.

I have three PUG Pentastars. One in a 2018 JL, one in a 2021 Gladiator, and one in my daughter´s 2021 JL. The two JL´s have over 100k miles on them. My JL has been run hard, but very rarely on short trips and never uses ESS. The other has Etorque and is an automatic and sees mostly very short trips....the hardest duty cycle an engine can have, with many cold starts and many times not warming up fully. It also goes to 0 percent on the OLM and often goes well past the oil change light. It has seen oil changes over 10,000 miles, including one that went 14k. It has about 110k miles on it. It also runs the ESS, always. So MANY starts/stops. It has been run on bulk oil change shop oil which varies by brand. The owner, a friend of mine, buys whatever buik oil he can get the most cheaply. He says it is mostly Pennzoil, but sometimes others like Mobil full synthetic (all 0w20´s are full synthetic). That Mobil oil is not Mobil 1, btw. It is their cheaper Group III based synthetic with no GTL or PAO in it. This engine is running like new. Never an issue. I have started changing her oil and putting Mobil 1 EP in it to handle going past the oil life monitor, but she now brings it to me when it tells her the change is due. The JT/auto is driven more gently than my JL, because it is a manual. But the ESS is never used and it does do more towing. I fully expect to go well beyone 300k with all of these engines on 0w20. Time will gell, but there´s no issues so far.

That 14k mile oil cycle on the 2021 JL came on the cheap bulk oil. I should have done a UOA on it, but I would almost be afraid to look at it. LOL.

If one of those rockers was going to fail due to an oil issue, it would be that 2021. I will certainly post up if it does.

My suggestion to anyone worried about oil would be to go for the expensive stuff....Amsoil Signature, HPL, or Red Line. Those all have primarily PAO synthetic base stock. That´s where you´ll get the best wear protection and at the same time quick flow....I think the HPL pour point is something like 80 degrees below zero (F)!! That is CRAZY! They will also take much higher heat before oxidizing and breaking down than even the 40 weights. MUCH higher. And the bonus is they will keep an engine clean as it can be. But you´ll pay out the ass for those oils. I think HPL has a big sale coming up.

One reason I like Mobil 1 is that Mobil 1 uses Group IV PAO base oils like AMSOIL Signature.

 

[Stan H]

One reason I like Mobil 1 is that Mobil 1 uses Group IV PAO base oils like AMSOIL Signature.

Except the oil that was in it from the Dealership when I bought it . Every single oil change on my JT has been Amsoil signature series 0W-20 . 126,400+

 

[JTGuy]

I juist did an oil change with pensoil super ultra platinum full synthetic 5-30. My cams are probably toast.LOL.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I juist did an oil change with pensoil super ultra platinum full synthetic 5-30. My cams are probably toast.LOL.

Better unload that clunker as fast as you can. Don't tell them what you did.

 

[jav_eee]

I juist did an oil change with pensoil super ultra platinum full synthetic 5-30. My cams are probably toast.LOL.

I just put Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 so same.

 

[Stan H]

I just put Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 so same.

"ESP" =extra sensory perception ??

 

[jav_eee]

"ESP" =extra sensory perception ??

“Extra super protection” especially for PUG 3.6 (when used instead of the recommended 0w20)

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