Cam shaft backordered

[Stan H]

Engines, yes, but spare parts?
That could be a different animal than production line parts.

Engines for 24 and later are US "made".

Made in the USA from foreign imported parts .
Foreign parts content % ???

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[ShadowsPapa]

Mine was built just prior to this and several older than mine had this situation. I think( here we go again) it has nothing to do steel quality . I think it is the manufacturing process itself . How they are hardened them and the cam followers.

Yeah, unrelated to Covid - this all started before Covid

 

[Stan H]

Yeah, unrelated to Covid - this all started before Covid

Also the polished finish on bothe surfaces that will make contact ( minus that microscopic thin layer of oil) must be slicker than a whistle the polishing process IMHO must be immaculate.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I think( here we go again) it has nothing to do steel quality . I think it is the manufacturing process itself .

I can guarantee no steel supplier ever supplied steel, Covid or not, without a C of A and it meeting all required specifications.

Covid as an excuse it some BS that we'll live with forever.

 

[bill61]

I can guarantee no steel supplier ever supplied steel, Covid or not, without a C of A and it meeting all required specifications.

Covid as an excuse it some BS that we'll live with forever.

I know in the Aerospace industry they found counterfeit C of A’s, so why not fake it in the automotive industry?

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I know in the Aerospace industry they found counterfeit C of A’s, so why not fake it in the automotive industry?

That is the most straightforward explantion.

Cuz Covid, Arbomex faked their COA's, and actually made cams out of old Faygo cans.

Now just to prove it, file a sweet class action, and collect my 53.00 payday!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know in the Aerospace industry they found counterfeit C of A’s, so why not fake it in the automotive industry?

This has been going on since way before Covid, so any explanation has to predate the covid supply chain mess which didn't start until well into 2020. Covid didn't really get a big hold here until the beginning of 2020, all other things happened after that. Failures were happening with 2020 models made in 2019, very pre-covid.
In fact, the numbers seemed to be the highest in the 2020 model year into 2021, and it's still happening with later models, but the numbers DON'T APPEAR TO BE as large in subsequent model years.

So we have to leave covid out and have some other explanation. Fake blanks are about all that fits, and it might fit with what FCA has said the cause was in the TSB.
Perhaps they did figure out, finally, they were being duped?

The cams at least as far as replacement parts, can't speak for the production engine parts, do come out of Mexico.

 

[chr15m]

Shift Autowerx is detailing their rocker failure and the consequent camshaft replacement now.

He's been running 5W20 so I guess the alternative oil group can hang it up now, although I doubt that'll happen.

He seems set on it being a needle bearing issue in the rocker arm.

Just another voice in the echo chamber, take it for whatever you think its worth. I did find it funny that he posted about how a 5.7 swap seemed good right about now. Guess I wont mention the rocker failure on the Hemis being much more likey to result in a whole engine replacement as the roller lifter on the Hemis seem to absolutely grenade once it occurs.

 

[bill61]

This has been going on since way before Covid, so any explanation has to predate the covid supply chain mess which didn't start until well into 2020. Covid didn't really get a big hold here until the beginning of 2020, all other things happened after that. Failures were happening with 2020 models made in 2019, very pre-covid.
In fact, the numbers seemed to be the highest in the 2020 model year into 2021, and it's still happening with later models, but the numbers DON'T APPEAR TO BE as large in subsequent model years.

So we have to leave covid out and have some other explanation. Fake blanks are about all that fits, and it might fit with what FCA has said the cause was in the TSB.
Perhaps they did figure out, finally, they were being duped?

The cams at least as far as replacement parts, can't speak for the production engine parts, do come out of Mexico.

I agree Covid is a cop out for a lot of stuff to this day. I just don’t understand how any manufacturer or retailer can use it as an excuse four years later.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

He seems set on it being a needle bearing issue in the rocker arm.

Hilarious. Really? Even though the low lift is unharmed? That's funny stuff right there.
Now if it was a GEN I 3.6, yeah, that's exactly what failed on those. They had no high lift lobe.

He's been running 5W20 so I guess the alternative oil group can hang it up now, although I doubt that'll happen.

That's all just more proof to me that "the best" aren't always perfect and are still just people - and at times they get kudos only because no one really understands what they are saying. If it sounds plausible enough, then people "like" and agree and move on saying "gee, they are the best". OK, whatever.

You can easily find 5w30 people with cam failures. And they don't even haul 7,000 pounds and wheel straight up the side of Grand Canyon! So it's not excessive loading or heavy use, or pounding on the engine. It's happening even with heavier oil and typical use outside of towing loads in mountains and harsh crawling conditions.
I guess I'm still saying the emperor has no clothes.

 

[chr15m]

Hilarious. Really? Even though the low lift is unharmed? That's funny stuff right there.
Now if it was a GEN I 3.6, yeah, that's exactly what failed on those. They had no high lift lobe.



That's all just more proof to me that "the best" aren't always perfect and are still just people - and at times they get kudos only because no one really understands what they are saying. If it sounds plausible enough, then people "like" and agree and move on saying "gee, they are the best". OK, whatever.

You can easily find 5w30 people with cam failures. And they don't even haul 7,000 pounds and wheel straight up the side of Grand Canyon! So it's not excessive loading or heavy use, or pounding on the engine. It's happening even with heavier oil and typical use outside of towing loads in mountains and harsh crawling conditions.
I guess I'm still saying the emperor has no clothes.

His truck is a JT, so not Gen I. But he was referring to all gens as he mentioned his 15yrs with Jeep as a mechanic. His primary focus was his truck though, so I infer that he is in fact still talking about the bearing in regard to Gen III.

Perhaps he's looking at it from the perspective that failed bearings are present in some or most cases? Hard to say which happens first when all you find is the outcome, but I get what you mean and I cant say where he is coming from.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

His truck is a JT, so not Gen I. But he was referring to all gens as he mentioned his 15yrs with Jeep as a mechanic. His primary focus was his truck though, so I infer that he is in fact still talking about the bearing in regard to Gen III.

Perhaps he's looking at it from the perspective that failed bearings are present in some or most cases? Hard to say which happens first when all you find is the outcome, but I get what you mean and I cant say where he is coming from.

There's only two generations - the first up through 2015 model year, then the second, the Pentastar Upgrade Engine (PUG) from 2016 model year forward, not used in Wrangler until JL (2018)

There are no bearing failures connected with the PUG cam failures.

Failed bearings would have zero impact on the failures we see - it's high lift only and there are no bearings involved. The low lift lobes are pretty much always perfect. There are many dozens of pictures of them here and on the JL side of things.

Sorry, but he rather lost some credibility if he talks bearings at all.
Bearings failed on the intake follower ROLLERS in the Gen 1
The high lift mode - center lobe and center of the follower fails on ours, which are Gen 2 or PUG engines.

BIG differences in the valve train between the original, Gen 1, and ours, Gen 2

 

[Deleted member 67086]

Shift Autowerx is detailing their rocker failure and the consequent camshaft replacement now.

He's been running 5W20 so I guess the alternative oil group can hang it up now, although I doubt that'll happen.

He seems set on it being a needle bearing issue in the rocker arm.

Just another voice in the echo chamber, take it for whatever you think its worth. I did find it funny that he posted about how a 5.7 swap seemed good right about now. Guess I wont mention the rocker failure on the Hemis being much more likey to result in a whole engine replacement as the roller lifter on the Hemis seem to absolutely grenade once it occurs.

he (Shift Autowerx) said the needle bearings were the issue with the previous gen Pentastar, not the PUG.

To all, he said he feels the issue with the PUG is a materials issue with those components. He said oil weight and frequency of oil changes do not seem to prevent this issue. And to those in the Baxter anti drain back device camp, he said those do not prevent this either.

 

[Deleted member 67086]

There's only two generations - the first up through 2015 model year, then the second, the Pentastar Upgrade Engine (PUG) from 2016 model year forward, not used in Wrangler until JL (2018)

There are no bearing failures connected with the PUG cam failures.

Failed bearings would have zero impact on the failures we see - it's high lift only and there are no bearings involved. The low lift lobes are pretty much always perfect. There are many dozens of pictures of them here and on the JL side of things.

Sorry, but he rather lost some credibility if he talks bearings at all.
Bearings failed on the intake follower ROLLERS in the Gen 1
The high lift mode - center lobe and center of the follower fails on ours, which are Gen 2 or PUG engines.

BIG differences in the valve train between the original, Gen 1, and ours, Gen 2

he was miss quoted on here, he did NOT associate needle bearings with the PUG.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

he was miss quoted on here, he did NOT associate needle bearings with the PUG.

I was going by THIS ->

so I infer that he is in fact still talking about the bearing in regard to Gen III.

and this ->

Perhaps he's looking at it from the perspective that failed bearings are present in some or most cases?

He said oil weight and frequency of oil changes do not seem to prevent this issue. And to those in the Baxter anti drain back device camp, he said those do not prevent this either.

That makes more sense - and is what I've been saying here for years.
Oil "weight" doesn't matter, will be of no help, and can make things worse in the longer run.
And the baxter thing - another item sold to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
It will resolve busted oil filter housings and associated parts, but that's it.

I'm glad he didn't actually talk of bearings...... and besides, even with the Gen 1, that's been resolved with newer parts (according to some who work on them.)

And - I qualified my comments with this - note the if...........

Sorry, but he rather lost some credibility if he talks bearings at all.

I left an out there.

FCA says it's a manufacturing issue (quality of parts, raw materials, machining or final hardening processes, whatever)

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