Official EcoDiesel Oil and Filter Recommendations

[Hootbro]

In essence, the MS-12991 spec was only chosen because Shell didn't have anything else to offer.

I do not doubt anything you said, but still think having a readable copy of the actual spec would be insightful to methodology and answer other questions. '

I have a copy of the MS-6395 spec but even it is dated and not the latest revision.

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[biodiesel]

I do not doubt anything you said, but still think having a readable copy of the actual spec would be insightful to methodology and answer other questions.

I agree 100%. We've had the oil experts look at the MS-12991 spec. They said that any oil that carries the MB229.5 (A3/B4) or MB229.51 (C3) designation will have identical performance requirements as MS-12991. The only difference is oil life expectancy. In short, MS-12991 is just an older designation.

 

[DylanM]

2020-2022 Jeep required an API SN, ACEA A3/B4.

There is no mention of ACEA A3/B4 in the 2020 through 2022 Gladiator owner's manual fluid requirements, only the API SN category is listed.

 

[biodiesel]

There is no mention of ACEA A3/B4 in the 2020 through 2022 Gladiator owner's manual fluid requirements, only the API SN category is listed.

Okay, so the ACEA A3/B4 was printed in the 2023 Jeep manuals.

 

[biodiesel]

@RudeJeepin, just so you don't think I'm crazy, I found a picture of the Valvoline MST when it still had the MS-12991 spec on the bottle!

 

[DylanM]

Okay, so the ACEA A3/B4 was printed in the 2023 Jeep manuals.

Yep. And what year JT does RudeJeepin, the person I was directly responding to earlier, have?

 

[rharr]

In my mind if the manual says api sp and acea a3/b4 and the bottle of oil seys it meets that, then what's the problem? Oil bottle even has mb229.5 listed.

It's also advertised as a high heat oil for what that is worth.

Sp is supposed to be better than sn anyways and allegedly backwards compatible if you trust Ai.

 

[biodiesel]

Yep. And what year JT does RudeJeepin, the person I was directly responding to earlier, have?

Back in 2021, Stellantis said the recommendation was MS-12991 and the API SN or SN+. It's not one or the other.

 

[biodiesel]

In my mind if the manual says api sp and acea a3/b4 and the bottle of oil seys it meets that, then what's the problem? Oil bottle even has mb229.5 listed.

Those who are trying to maintain warranty should stick with a MS-12991 oil, otherwise, you're right. I'm no longer chasing the oil debate because I've seen the data.

Amsoil MS isn't a MS-12991 oil, but I know that it will outperform any of the MS-12991 oils. Amsoil MS will last longer, have lower wear rates, and be better for the DPF. The MS-12991 specification wasn't ever intended for DPFs. It's crazy that Stellantis chose that oil spec, but they didn't have any other Shell oils that worked for the application!

 

[DylanM]

Back in 2021, Stellantis said the recommendation was MS-12991 and the API SN or SN+. It's not one or the other.

Owner's manual states recommend MS-12991 and API SN required.

 

[biodiesel]

Owner's manual states recommend MS-12991 and API SN required.

TSBs (Service Technical Bulletins) supersede what's in the owner's manual. The purpose for supplements and/or bulletins is to make corrections and add information as the manufacturer find issues after the vehicle has been produced. For example, the early 2020 Ram EcoDiesel owner's manual recommended using Rotella T6 (Gen 2 oil spec). In August of 2021, Stellantis sent out a STAR Publication to make corrections and add information for all Gen 3 engines (Ram and Jeep). In addition, they sent all EcoDiesel certified dealer techs a video explaining what would happen if you followed the outdated specification. These images are from the MasterTech video.

 

[RudeJeepin]

Yep. And what year JT does RudeJeepin, the person I was directly responding to earlier, have?

Back in 2021, Stellantis said the recommendation was MS-12991 and the API SN or SN+. It's not one or the other.

My JT is a 2022, but my (wife's) JLU is a 2021, does that confuse it anymore?

 

[DylanM]

TSBs (Service Technical Bulletins) supersede what's in the owner's manual. The purpose for supplements and/or bulletins is to make corrections and add information as the manufacturer find issues after the vehicle has been produced. For example, the early 2020 Ram EcoDiesel owner's manual recommended using Rotella T6 (Gen 2 oil spec). In August of 2021, Stellantis sent out a STAR Publication to make corrections and add information for all Gen 3 engines (Ram and Jeep). In addition, they sent all EcoDiesel certified dealer techs a video explaining what would happen if you followed the outdated specification. These images are from the MasterTech video.

The TSB you reference outlines that the oil spec'd for use in the Gen 2 is different than that spec'd for use in the Gen 3 and explains why you shouldn't use the earlier spec in the later engine. The oil spec between the two changed in that they have different API ratings, as clearly stated in the TSB. Again, there is no stated requirement for the use of an oil that carries the MS-12991 spec, it is recommended to do so.

A recommendation is not the same as a requirement.

The Gladiator owner's manual didn't have the same Gen 2 oil spec error as you allude to in the early Ram manual, it stated that the API SN category is required. As the correct required API was already stated in the manual, the TSB does nothing to update or change what's in there, rather, it merely reinforces or reminds those performing work on the vehicle that one should not use the oil spec for the previous generation of engine.

To be fair, the way that the fluid requirements blurb in the 2020-2022 JT owner's manual was written was not done so in the most clear manner, but with the rewrite seen in the 2023 manual you can still see that again, at no point was the MS-12991 spec ever stated as being required for use, it has always been recommended.

 

[DylanM]

My JT is a 2022, but my (wife's) JLU is a 2021, does that confuse it anymore?

Nah, still the same.

 

[rharr]

So in summary, use a ACEA A3/B4 API SP rated oil and you will meet the engines requirements.
Valvoline synth Euro 5w-40 does this.

If you are worried about warranty use a MS-12991 Plus ACEA A3/B4 API SP oil (aka Pennzoil platinum euro 5w-40) But also be prepared to have trackable purchase records (receipts) of every oil purchase with product name you made and the filters used. There was a reported story here where FCA did a shake down on a member (who did his own oil changes) for all the info before they honored his warranty.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/21-ecodiesel-warranty-replacement-50k-miles.101797/

My truck being a 2021 delivered in June, my powertrain warranty (5yrs) is about to expire so i am done playing stupid games.

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