Official EcoDiesel Oil and Filter Recommendations

[Ericshere03]

Out of curiosity, which airstream do you have? We've looked at a few, but I always figured they were to heavy. Yours doesn't sound too bad.

It’s a 23D or 23CB … same model just different name based on the year … it’s also a “narrow” body, so a little more aerodynamic … I can get a 17-18mpg towing!!! So it slips through the air pretty good. BUT I can also see 264+ degree oil and 244+ degree water temps.

I goofed and Apperently these things are 4700lbs … I have removed a bunch of weight, but I should still round up to 5000lb loaded weight.

there are smaller units, there is another 23 footer that’s lighter, a 20ft, 19ft and a 16ft. Then there is the new basecamp 16 and 20ft that are both pretty light

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[caryt]

I thought the bigger grille of the Ram made it run cooler, but if you think about it, the engine oil heat exchanger can't keep up, not the radiator. If the overall cooling system was undersized then the water temp and the oil temps would rise at the same time.

In my experience I can have high oil temps and good water temps at the same time.

That tells me the heat exchanger can't pull enough heat out of the oil to dump the heat into the coolant. If heat exchanger was bigger it would pull more heat from the oil and the oil temps and coolant temps would be more in line with each other.

SInce you have the Ram ED and the JT ED can you take a look at the heat exchanger on the engine and see if they are the same design?

Why is the Ram able to pull more heat out of the oil then the JT? Either the coolant going into the exchanger on the ram is cooler to start with from a bigger cooling system or the exchanger is pulling more heat out.

***Just read a thing over on the Ram forum where one guy aledges the engine oil heat exchanger is not for cooling but for heating the oil on cold days to improve efficiency, which is a interesting theory, buy why could we use it to cool as well.

The Link is to a PDF so me warned.
https://www.ram1500diesel.com/attachments/ram-ecodiesel-radiator-upgrade-draft2-pdf.88825/

https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/write-up-re-installation-of-large-aftermarket-radiator.70105/

What I have been saying since I bought my JT.. We need a big full flow oil cooler and problem will be solved.

 

[rharr]

@biodiesel mind updating the 1st page with what you have learn thus far ? aka things like Valvoline 5w-40 euro is now not good......

and the MS-12991 AND ACEA A3/B4 -SN or SN+ requirement

 

[biodiesel]

@biodiesel mind updating the 1st page with what you have learn thus far ? aka things like Valvoline 5w-40 euro is now not good......

I removed the Valvoline Euro from that list.

 

[Teqsand]

I removed the Valvoline Euro from that list.

2 questions
What happened to make the calvoline euro bad?

Do we know who makes docs oil and and filters? Because i'm pretty confident docs doesn't....

 

[biodiesel]

What happened to make the calvoline euro bad?

Valvoline changed the formulation. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm simply saying it no longer carries the MS-12991 specification.

Do we know who makes docs oil and and filters? Because i'm pretty confident docs doesn't....

DOC's doesn't make their own filters. I would not recommend their filters. I've seen too many of them fail.

 

[Teqsand]

Valvoline changed the formulation. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm simply saying it no longer carries the MS-12991 specification.



DOC's doesn't make their own filters. I would not recommend their filters. I've seen too many of them fail.

I was unaware when that change was for valvoline.Thank you....

I don't think doc makes their own oil either, i'd be curious who they use as a supplier
That they relabeled

 

[biodiesel]

I was unaware when that change was for valvoline.Thank you....

Unfortunately, these formulations change often and without consumer knowledge. Keep in mind, the MS-12991 is an American specification. Euro oils do not follow American specifications, so that's what makes this tricky. The difference boils down to regulatory emissions requirements. From my understanding, a lot of Euro oils use sulfur in their additive packages. Our very own EPA/CARB has restricted how much sulfur is allowed in the oil. This creates a difficult task for oil suppliers. In short, Euro oils and American oils are not on the same page.

I don't think doc makes their own oil either, i'd be curious who they use as a supplier
That they relabeled

Correct. Doc's is nothing more than a marketing company. They work with various manufacturers.

 

[Teqsand]

Unfortunately, these formulations change often and without consumer knowledge. Keep in mind, the MS-12991 is an American specification. Euro oils do not follow American specifications, so that's what makes this tricky. The difference boils down to regulatory emissions requirements. From my understanding, a lot of Euro oils use sulfur in their additive packages. Our very own EPA/CARB has restricted how much sulfur is allowed in the oil. This creates a difficult task for oil suppliers. In short, Euro oils and American oils are not on the same page.



Correct. Doc's is nothing more than a marketing company. They work with various manufacturers.

Well, on the upside CARB just got its pee pee smacked, california should not be allowed to set the emission standards for the entire country

 

[RudeJeepin]

Unfortunately, these formulations change often and without consumer knowledge. Keep in mind, the MS-12991 is an American specification. Euro oils do not follow American specifications, so that's what makes this tricky.

On Valvolines website, if I look up oil by my 22JTRD it list the Euro as an exact match and their only option.

Not arguing, just showing.

 

[DylanM]

@RudeJeepin
And technically, they're correct. Per the owner's manual it's recommended to use a 5W-40 synthetic oil that complies with MS-12991, but it requires the oil to be API SN. So Valvoline is correct in saying that oil meets the requirements for your ecodiesel, even though it doesn't carry the recommended MS-12991 cert.

 

[Hootbro]

Anybody have an actual PDF copy of the full MS-12991 spec?

I know with the gas MS-6395 spec, meeting the lubrication technical details is not a high hurdle for most major brand oils but the limitation is having the long term controlled fleet testing is usually a 2 year process to complete. Some oil brands will not even bother with it because of that and usually will put the language of "suitable for MS-6395 applications" or similar.

 

[biodiesel]

On Valvolines website, if I look up oil by my 22JTRD it list the Euro as an exact match and their only option. Not arguing, just showing.

Valvoline reformulated and removed the MS-12991 designation from their Euro 5W-40 oil to their SynPower MST 5W-40 oil. They have since removed the MS-12991 from the MST SynPower as well. Interestingly, the Valvoline SynPower MST is a C3 oil, which offers pretty much the same performance requirements as MS-12991.

 

[biodiesel]

Anybody have an actual PDF copy of the full MS-12991 spec?

Let me try to explain this in a way that makes sense. Stellantis has had a long-term partnership with Shell. I believe that partnership started back in 2011. Shell owns Pennzoil, Rotella, etc. So, Stellantis will choose an oil from Shell's oil collection that best meets the application. In the case of the Gen 3 EcoDiesel, the best oil from Shell's offering was Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40, which is a A3/B4 oil. I've been told by the oil gurus that A3/B4 oils are designed to operate at temperatures up to about 275*F.

Amsoil MS is a C3 oil which is also designed to operate at those super high temps. From my understanding, the A3/B4 spec is an older specification for older tech engines. C3 is the newest spec that is designed for modern engines with DPFs (think Mid-SAPS). I've been told that C3 oils can do everything that a A3/B4 oil can do, and perhaps do it better.

Back when the Gen 3 EcoDiesel was released, Amsoil's technical department couldn't understand why Stellantis chose a very outdated spec (MS-12991). But now we understand why. Shell has a very good C3 oil (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-30) which was the original oil specified for the Gen 2 EcoDiesel in 2014. However, FCA revised that specification to 5W-40, which is why they started recommending Rotella T6 5W-40 (another Shell product).

In essence, the MS-12991 spec was only chosen because Shell didn't have anything else to offer.

 

[biodiesel]

Per the owner's manual it's recommended to use a 5W-40 synthetic oil that complies with MS-12991, but it requires the oil to be API SN.

2020-2022 Jeep required an API SN, ACEA A3/B4.
2020 - 2021 Ram also required an API SN, ACEA A3/B4.
2022 - 2023 Ram required API SP, ACEA A3/B4.
FIAT required an API SN/SN+/SP, ACEA A3/B4.
Alfa Romeo required an API SN/SN+/SP, ACEA C3

ACEA C3 oils are a direct replacement for A3/B4 with lower SAPS levels. What we found is that MS-12991 oils also meets MB229.5 (A3/B4) or MB229.51 (C3). The only oils that can withstand the 10,000-mile oil change interval is a C3 oil.

In my opinion, any oil that has the C3 specification will be a good choice for the Gen 3 EcoDiesel, especially if you're emissions compliant.

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