Running Hotter and Losing Coolant

[Chadnutz]

I called moparsuperstore.com and asked him if the valve train or head gaskets have been redesigned. This guy proceeds to tell me he is unaware of any design changes to either, and furthermore he is unaware of any issues with camshaft wear or head gasket failure in Pentastar engines. I told him I was very surprised given the fact that he sells Mopar parts for a living.

He then proceeded to tell me he wished more would fail so he could sell more, and also that, even if part numbers changed, it does not mean the designs or suppliers have changed. Why would any OEM change part numbers without changing suppliers or designs? There is a cost to changing part numbers. One doesn't just willy nilly do that.

Needless to say I was quite frustrated.

Back in 2022 they installed camshaft 5047913AD.

If I go to factorychryslerparts.com, I get the following progression..... Yeah....unaware of any design changes....

CAMSHAFT. Intake. Right Side.



Part Number: 05047913AD
Supersession(s): 05047913AC; 05047913AB; 68661147AA; 5047913AD

@JeepCares .... I'm not sure what you can do for me having had this Jeep for 7 years, but I brought it in at 52,244 miles on August 22, 2022 for a DTC and loss of power. I knew the fault code and I told them these engines have an issue with camshafts and cam followers, and that is where they needed to look. It took them until the FIFTH time of me bringing it in to finally realize what the problem was, and that was after switching technicians and telling me they were going to replace parts they already had replaced. I asked them if they relayed the information on what had already been done to the new tech, and they had not. They replaced what is shown below. Now here I am around 126k miles, and I have two worn intake camshafts, which means the replacement has already failed, and a failed head gasket. This is my first new vehicle, and my first Jeep, and this is heartbreaking. With all the metal shavings running around, and the overtemp the engine saw, which wasn't even an over-temp according to the Jeep, due to headgasket failure, I have to consider completely replacing the engine. I'm sure the warranty for the work was expired by 3 years and 36k miles.... Just lovely.

52,244​	8/22/2022​	Dealer found camshaft damage due to follower interference.	5047788AM Cam phaser sprocket (1)
			5047785AE Exhaust camshaft phaser (1)
			5047913AD Intake camshaft (1)
			5048030AD Exhaust camshaft (1)
			5047883AC Valve lash tappet (12)
			5047896AD Rocker arm (6)
			4893804AB Valve cover gasket (1)
			5048043AD Cam phaser (1)
			68245463AA Valve lash adjuster arm (6)

Sponsored

 

[Stan H]

I just checked all around the reservoir with a dry paper tower and found no liquid. I would expect a reservoir leak to be large enough to see, but it was worth checking anyway.

Your looking for a pink residue
Look at the pink line this is what the antifreeze will look like if its leaking as it burns and dries on the block.

 

[Stan H]

Where do I get the parts? Jeep?

@AllMoparParts.com they are forum sponsor and the best place ever found for ordering parts. Always accurate always great prices.

 

[Stan H]

Confirmed by inspecting spark plugs and then even more so by borescope... Head gasket failed around cylinder 4. Expecting to find cam wear when I pull the valve covers. I'll have to decide if I am fixing what is broken or just putting a new engine in it. Lovely.

Fix it . It will hold.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I wish you would have reached out to me before you cut the tank in half…I would have flown down to your place and we could have had a tank cutting party, it would have given me extreme pleasure to take a band saw to yours and my POS, leaking, proprietary bottom fitting (it leaks as well), unbelievably horrible designed coolant reservoir tank, with the worst possible selection of plastic materials that goes to full brittle with the coolant temps that run at near surface temperature of the sun.
If anyone from Jeep is reading this…focus on this for just a second…quality of materials matters! Aluminum Please, Geeze. Oh, one more thing, lose the POSP cap. Jeep, make or source these out of metal as well. You’ve been doing it since 1941 for hells sake, wake up and work on your customer satisfaction numbers. 85 years of this product line…your customers expect better.

You can cut mine. It’s out as of Saturday.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I sell used jeeps with milage from 95k to 160k have done 20+ top ends cams lifters and gaskets and some valves have not had any comebacks after sale of jeep most terms 36 months customers still no problems cost for me is about $1800 out the door my labor rate is $75ph because its dedicated shop,if it was mine i would do topend..IMHO

Want to help me do mine? Mostly joking because I’m guessing you’re not close to me.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Your looking for a pink residue
Look at the pink line this is what the antifreeze will look like if its leaking as it burns and dries on the block.

I haven’t found the leak, and it’s definitely less smell after 9 hours over the mountains either a trailer, with the new aluminum reservoir. But it’s not gone.

 

[WILDHOBO]

@AllMoparParts.com they are forum sponsor and the best place ever found for ordering parts. Always accurate always great prices.

They’re FANTASTIC.

 

[JeepCares]

I called moparsuperstore.com and asked him if the valve train or head gaskets have been redesigned. This guy proceeds to tell me he is unaware of any design changes to either, and furthermore he is unaware of any issues with camshaft wear or head gasket failure in Pentastar engines. I told him I was very surprised given the fact that he sells Mopar parts for a living.

He then proceeded to tell me he wished more would fail so he could sell more, and also that, even if part numbers changed, it does not mean the designs or suppliers have changed. Why would any OEM change part numbers without changing suppliers or designs? There is a cost to changing part numbers. One doesn't just willy nilly do that.

Needless to say I was quite frustrated.

Back in 2022 they installed camshaft 5047913AD.

If I go to factorychryslerparts.com, I get the following progression..... Yeah....unaware of any design changes....

CAMSHAFT. Intake. Right Side.



Part Number: 05047913AD
Supersession(s): 05047913AC; 05047913AB; 68661147AA; 5047913AD

@JeepCares .... I'm not sure what you can do for me having had this Jeep for 7 years, but I brought it in at 52,244 miles on August 22, 2022 for a DTC and loss of power. I knew the fault code and I told them these engines have an issue with camshafts and cam followers, and that is where they needed to look. It took them until the FIFTH time of me bringing it in to finally realize what the problem was, and that was after switching technicians and telling me they were going to replace parts they already had replaced. I asked them if they relayed the information on what had already been done to the new tech, and they had not. They replaced what is shown below. Now here I am around 126k miles, and I have two worn intake camshafts, which means the replacement has already failed, and a failed head gasket. This is my first new vehicle, and my first Jeep, and this is heartbreaking. With all the metal shavings running around, and the overtemp the engine saw, which wasn't even an over-temp according to the Jeep, due to headgasket failure, I have to consider completely replacing the engine. I'm sure the warranty for the work was expired by 3 years and 36k miles.... Just lovely.

52,244​	8/22/2022​	Dealer found camshaft damage due to follower interference.	5047788AM Cam phaser sprocket (1)
			5047785AE Exhaust camshaft phaser (1)
			5047913AD Intake camshaft (1)
			5048030AD Exhaust camshaft (1)
			5047883AC Valve lash tappet (12)
			5047896AD Rocker arm (6)
			4893804AB Valve cover gasket (1)
			5048043AD Cam phaser (1)
			68245463AA Valve lash adjuster arm (6)

Hi there,

We appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Please PM us with details of your concern, so we can see what we can do to help. Thank you.

Gia
Jeep Cares

 

[BourbonRunner]

I got some surf fishing in today on Assateague Island and ran the full length of the OSV zone to the MD-VA line. We don't have any deserts in Maryland so the National Seashore was my testing ground.

On the sand I never dropped below 215 and held consistently in the 223-229 range. At the high point it smelled horrible. I stopped, popped the hood and let it idle down to get it to 190. I can't imagine how hot this would run in the heat of the desert.

I hovered around the speed limit of 25 on most of it but did open to about 40mph a couple times on the most desolate part to get air moving through the grille. After my stop above I popped the hood latches and left it open slightly to allow for some of the heat to escape until I got off the sand and aired back up.

I had a leak down and pressure test done yesterday and per the dealer there was "nothing wrong."

@JeepCares I'm more than a little concerned about the long term effects of all this heat on the motor, especially since running in sand is what it's designed to do.

 

[Stan H]

@WILDHOBO tell me about it.

I have to wonder, with all the heat soak issues is that the cause of these blowing out prematurely?

I ask because My 2G 4Runner had the infamous 3VZE head gasket replacement because of heat soak up against the firewall roasting it.

As I see it the headmaster could be a heat soak issue but the cams are not.
Now I aint an engineer but when the oil never gets about 217 it has to be alloy or oil related on the cams.

 

[BourbonRunner]

As I see it the headmaster could be a heat soak issue but the cams are not.
Now I aint an engineer but when the oil never gets about 217 it has to be alloy or oil related on the cams.

Curious why you say this?

I asked Grok what the typical under-load in 4x4 range for these trucks is. I was a little surprised it's as high, but the thing that gets me wondering: they run hot to improve efficiency and emissions? I thought heat was the enemy of efficiency in an engine?

My last change (first with this truck since it's used) was 35,300, LiquiMoly SpecialTec with a bottle of Ceratec. I sent a sample of what was in there to Blackstone. This was the report. I'm at just over 38K right now and that engine oil is about as clean as the day I filled it.

Bottom line is I'm still very concerned about heat soak and will be exploring every opportunity to reduce it. I may even invest in a 2024+ grille to get more air moving but I kinda like my '22 OG.

 

[Chadnutz]

I thought heat was the enemy of efficiency in an engine?

Heat is not the enemy of efficiency. Heat is the enemy of durability. The average gasoline engine uses about 30% of the fuel you burn to get you down the road. The rest is lost mostly to heat rejected to the coolant the exhaust. The hotter the engine runs, the less heat moves from combustion to the block because heat transfer is driven by delta temperature, heat transfer properties of the mediums, and time.

Now I am considering making the switch to 5w-30 because I'm in S. Texas and this engine runs hotter than any other vehicle I've owned.

Also strongly considering long block due to the following:

Cam wear has sent metal fragments all over the place.
Engine has reached at least 117°C/243°F.
Long block comes with a warranty. Rebuilding current engine with new parts does not.
Price to buy all those parts and have the heads checked may approach price of a long block.
Long block has a brand new bottom end, whereas mine has 125k miles.

 

[Neomonk21]

This thread scares me. My coolant seems to always be a little low. My Jeep doesn't run hot (yet) but I've had to add a little coolant the last few months. I'll have to get out and give it a thorough inspection to see if there's a leak. My greatest fear with my Jeep is engine issues.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Heat is not the enemy of efficiency. Heat is the enemy of durability. The average gasoline engine uses about 30% of the fuel you burn to get you down the road. The rest is lost mostly to heat rejected to the coolant the exhaust. The hotter the engine runs, the less heat moves from combustion to the block because heat transfer is driven by delta temperature, heat transfer properties of the mediums, and time.

Now I am considering making the switch to 5w-30 because I'm in S. Texas and this engine runs hotter than any other vehicle I've owned.

Also strongly considering long block due to the following:

Cam wear has sent metal fragments all over the place.
Engine has reached at least 117°C/243°F.
Long block comes with a warranty. Rebuilding current engine with new parts does not.
Price to buy all those parts and have the heads checked may approach price of a long block.
Long block has a brand new bottom end, whereas mine has 125k miles.

I think I’d do the same. More work, but probably worth it. My oil temp was consistently in the mid 230’s on my towing drive Sunday and Monday. My coolant stayed consistently around 219. I wasn’t towing much weight as the trailer was mostly empty, but that size trailer, meaning wind resistance, up mountains means I’m careful. I manually shifted to stay mostly in the 3k rpm range, and kept my transmission temp from exceeding 215 F. I’m plenty fine with letting this engine use its rpm’s, but it’s the transmission I baby when I pull the cargo trailer.

my point after the rambling is the 235 degree oil I saw several times. I’d be shocked if it didn’t hit 240, as I was watching the transmission 99% of the time, sometimes flipping to coolant. Do you think that’s high? Genuinely asking. I don’t appear to have lost coolant at all, but smelled it a little when it was really under load. The sight glass on the new overflow reservoir is full, and I on purpose filled it just barely to the top of the sight glass. O higher.

Sponsored