New JT Gladiator Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel")

[DobaMark]

You’d think this would be different since a design flaw and a safety concern.

There should be a differentiation with something like this and treated more like a recall.

It's not a recall. So it's a warranty issue (or out of warranty issue).
I've long encouraged people who have the issue to file a complaint with NHTSA which might someday turn this into a recall.
All I can say is anyone who does pay for this repair should save the receipts. If it does turn into a recall they can get reimbursed.

Sponsored

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's not a recall. So it's a warranty issue (or out of warranty issue).
I've long encouraged people who have the issue to file a complaint with NHTSA which might someday turn this into a recall.
All I can say is anyone who does pay for this repair should save the receipts. If it does turn into a recall they can get reimbursed.

Not going to happen now. It's so much water under the bridge. They've resolved the majority of them already with the TSB under warranty, and the rest are saying they are fine. It's only going to be a very few from here on out.
They'll look at percentages and that percentage is going to be miniscule.
They went to the new design steering gear with 21 and 22 model years, the 2020JTs are mostly resolved. Likely there's only a few 2018-2020 JLs left with the issue. Possibly some JL owners have been living with it because of the old bull crap "It's a Jeep thing" and they believed it - likely only when one sells from this point on will it be an issue.
So at this point, don't look for a recall. The numbers just won't be there. Jeep can point to the sales numbers vs. those resolved under the TSB and show only a fraction unresolved remain. And of those - check the thread "who is on the original aluminum..........." and see - quite a few of those were not problematic. It wasn't like all of the aluminum steering gear actually had a big problem.

 

[Scrubb84]

Not going to happen now. It's so much water under the bridge. They've resolved the majority of them already with the TSB under warranty, and the rest are saying they are fine. It's only going to be a very few from here on out.
They'll look at percentages and that percentage is going to be miniscule.
They went to the new design steering gear with 21 and 22 model years, the 2020JTs are mostly resolved. Likely there's only a few 2018-2020 JLs left with the issue. Possibly some JL owners have been living with it because of the old bull crap "It's a Jeep thing" and they believed it - likely only when one sells from this point on will it be an issue.
So at this point, don't look for a recall. The numbers just won't be there. Jeep can point to the sales numbers vs. those resolved under the TSB and show only a fraction unresolved remain. And of those - check the thread "who is on the original aluminum..........." and see - quite a few of those were not problematic. It wasn't like all of the aluminum steering gear actually had a big problem.

Im no expert, but with the number of people (myself included) who have gotten another shitty steel box, it’s quite clear they never fixed the problem in the first place. That problem being the horrendous tolerances in the machining process. When they switched to steel vs aluminum they might have made some attampt at a quality control procedure, which is why there are a lot less bad ones being sent out. But the fact remains that they ARE still sending out bad ones.
just my 2 cents

 

[Hootbro]

Im no expert, but with the number of people (myself included) who have gotten another shitty steel box, it’s quite clear they never fixed the problem in the first place. That problem being the horrendous tolerances in the machining process. When they switched to steel vs aluminum they might have made some attampt at a quality control procedure, which is why there are a lot less bad ones being sent out. But the fact remains that they ARE still sending out bad ones.
just my 2 cents

The problem is the community is not privy to any Jeep or OEM vendor data on what the exact failure rate of either the aluminum or redesign steering box is. We just know that it is more than one and less than a billion.

Many draw the conclusion that all the aluminum boxes are bad or eventually will be and the replacement steel boxes are still failing for some but way less.

Last time I looked, the NHTSA volunteer reporting website for JL and JT issues, steering is the number one complaint. Until a Wrangler full of Nuns die in a crash contributed to poor steering, I doubt the NHTSA is going to be pushing Jeep to issue a recall on this.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You are seeing internet numbers - where people gather to complain, share bad luck, share bad service experiences, and find others who have similar problems so they can compare experiences and look for solutions.
Of the many thousands of Gladiators and Wranglers sold in total, if you saw 100 people talking of a bad steering gear replacement here and on FB, you'd be a fraction of 1% of all out there on the road. It looks like a lot because of the concentration all in one place, but I bet there aren't 100 forum members who have gotten a faulty replacement steering gear. Could be wrong, but even if there was, compared to real totals? Pretty small, not going to get a recall or even "Swift, immediate attention of the top of FCA".

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Last time I looked, the NHTSA volunteer reporting website for JL and JT issues, steering is the number one complaint.

I got the same impression. I read some of them - and a couple I actually laughed about, though - and wondered how the guy got a license and is allowed to operate a large machine in public.
But yes, steering is number 1. But that includes things not totally steering gear related, as well. So it's even hard to say from those complaints. I've seen a couple that talk of what I would consider the wobble issue but it was written more as if it was a steering gear problem. A person would have to go through them all and sort through the "self-diagnosed" complaints to find the real problem and cause. (not that a steering gear issue can't contribute to worsening wobble and shimmy - loose parts is loose parts)
I also got the idea after reading reports about Jeeps, GMs, and other vehicles - uh, has the author bothered a dealer with this issue? Doesn't sound like it....... Go to a dealer, get it on record.
All this means - we'll never know the true numbers.
We may not actually ever know if any accidents were ever caused by steering issues. We can assume not - but - do we KNOW not?

 

[Scrubb84]

Last time I looked, the NHTSA volunteer reporting website for JL and JT issues, steering is the number one complaint. Until a Wrangler full of Nuns die in a crash contributed to poor steering, I doubt the NHTSA is going to be pushing Jeep to issue a recall on this.

Correct. Recall? Lmfao. The NHTSA is paid for by companies such as the FCA. They are a complete farce. Just like JDpower. People who believe those kinds of reports and statistics need a real life wake up call. Or they can be sheep for the rest of their lives, doesn’t matter to me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Lmfao. The NHTSA is paid for by companies such as the FCA.

Where did you get that idea? It's a completely federally funded entity, part of the United States Department of Transportation and as such, their budget comes from US DOT funds. POTUS chooses who heads the DOT, congress funds the DOT and thus NHTSA.
No auto makers or parts suppliers pay them.
Congress also authorizes NHTSA to give grants to states, etc. for highway safety projects - federal money.
NHTSA was created somewhere in the early 1970s by the US Congress replacing some other agency and making it part of the US DOT.

 

[DobaMark]

Not going to happen now. It's so much water under the bridge. They've resolved the majority of them already with the TSB under warranty, and the rest are saying they are fine. It's only going to be a very few from here on out.
They'll look at percentages and that percentage is going to be miniscule.
They went to the new design steering gear with 21 and 22 model years, the 2020JTs are mostly resolved. Likely there's only a few 2018-2020 JLs left with the issue. Possibly some JL owners have been living with it because of the old bull crap "It's a Jeep thing" and they believed it - likely only when one sells from this point on will it be an issue.
So at this point, don't look for a recall. The numbers just won't be there. Jeep can point to the sales numbers vs. those resolved under the TSB and show only a fraction unresolved remain. And of those - check the thread "who is on the original aluminum..........." and see - quite a few of those were not problematic. It wasn't like all of the aluminum steering gear actually had a big problem.

No it isn't resolved. Because the NHTSA can make Jeep provide numbers on how many vehicles they've had to repair already and that can and will factor into recall possibility - especially if the complaints keep being logged as people are expected to pay out of pocket and normal wear deteriorates the steering boxes even more. It's never too late for a recall as the recall of 15-20 year old Grand Cherokees to install trailer hitches to protect the gas tank shows.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No it isn't resolved. Because the NHTSA can make Jeep provide numbers on how many vehicles they've had to repair already and that can and will factor into recall possibility - especially if the complaints keep being logged as people are expected to pay out of pocket and normal wear deteriorates the steering boxes even more. It's never too late for a recall as the recall of 15-20 year old Grand Cherokees to install trailer hitches to protect the gas tank shows.

Did I ever say it was too late for a recall? I know they can go back years, and have.
I was pointing out that the complaints, while seemingly massive in numbers on a forum, are not necessarily massive in the real world. I know very well that NHTSA can compel a car maker to disclose numbers, that's a given.

I said it's resolved in the fact that the design was changed - so it's not a problem or issue going forward. The numbers of vehicle out there with problematic steering gear isn't growing.
It's shrinking due to attrition (accidents - totaled vehicles) and steering gear being replaced.
These had issues from day one, not due to wear or age. You don't see people who still have the aluminum housed gear saying it's ok but getting worse. You see them with growing miles saying it's still ok. They were ok or they were not ok.
Those not ok were realized 2 years ago on the JT 2020 models. Those that were ok are "generally" still ok. The fact that the replacement needed the EHPS to be reflashed also says it's not totally "because it's aluminum". My bet is that it was bad from the first 10,000 miles, or it wasn't and won't be for the most part.
Check the thread about those who are still on the original steering gear......... it's interesting that they are STILL ok, years and miles later.

This is a different animal than exposed fuel tanks as well.
This is something users/owners/drivers will feel and experience - the fuel tank is not related in any way as most owners will never realize it's a problem until there is an accident. Can't compare.
The Grand Cherokee issue wasn't covered by a TSB telling people "if you don't like how the fuel tank is sitting and exposed come in and we'll replace parts".

I'm looking at it logically as a tech, not out of anger and hate for big corp and companies getting away with things.

 

[seven30]

There is a under car video on one of these threads showing steering/axle during the wobble. Interestingly the steering arm was moving with the drag link allowing some energy build up.

But I do not believe the steering boxes are defective (waiting for someone to do an analysis/teardown) but rather were designed to try and mitigate any rollover tendency and just missed the mark a tad. This DW issue is the main result.

I noticed the late model 2000/2001 XJ has very stiff almost wooden steering compared to earlier years.
DaimlerChrysler took over in 1998 and Ill bet were responsible for that change.
Who knows maybe that same team oversaw the JT/JL boxes too.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But I do not believe the steering boxes are defective (waiting for someone to do an analysis/teardown) but rather were designed to try and mitigate any rollover tendency and just missed the mark a tad. This DW issue is the main result.

We're talking steering gear causing wander, "looseness" or pull. Not death wobble or anything related.
The steering gear was not replaced due to that, it was due to the other symptoms.
They are indeed problematic. don't know where you are coming up with that.

mitigate rollover tendency?
How would they do that with steering gear? That's not where rollovers come from.
And then why would the replacements take care of the looseness, wander and pull (at least in most cases)
There's nothing they can do with a steering gear to "mitigate" rollover. That's a different animal. And handled by other parts.

Steering gear was indeed problematic, nothing to do with "engineering for rollover" whatever.
DW has zip to do with those steering gear. Death wobble goes back decades, it's not new and the steering gear has literally nothing to do with it. Loose steering can exacerbate it, but it's not the cause.

 

[NC_Overland]

We're talking steering gear causing wander, "looseness" or pull. Not death wobble or anything related.
The steering gear was not replaced due to that, it was due to the other symptoms.
They are indeed problematic. don't know where you are coming up with that.

mitigate rollover tendency?
How would they do that with steering gear? That's not where rollovers come from.
And then why would the replacements take care of the looseness, wander and pull (at least in most cases)
There's nothing they can do with a steering gear to "mitigate" rollover. That's a different animal. And handled by other parts.

Steering gear was indeed problematic, nothing to do with "engineering for rollover" whatever.
DW has zip to do with those steering gear. Death wobble goes back decades, it's not new and the steering gear has literally nothing to do with it. Loose steering can exacerbate it, but it's not the cause.

If anything, it could have caused a roll over. I remember one time going through a construction zone on I-85 in SC and I almost lost control. I want slightly out of my narrow lane and the pavement dropped off a bunch and I almost lost control. It was scary AF

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If anything, it could have caused a roll over. I remember one time going through a construction zone on I-85 in SC and I almost lost control. I want slightly out of my narrow lane and the pavement dropped off a bunch and I almost lost control. It was scary AF

Wow.
Yeah, having steering loose, wandery or similar could cause one to go where one should not go, then react to pull out of it, and..................

 

[NC_Overland]

Wow.
Yeah, having steering loose, wandery or similar could cause one to go where one should not go, then react to pull out of it, and..................

To be fair, that was after my first steering gear replacement with the same box and the bolts weren’t torqued to spec, but I had similar experiences on the original one.

Sponsored