Mark another one dead

[K-Dog]

That’ll buff out.

Go buff it out then

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[LOGS]

Totally confused on this was this the gas or Diesel engine and I see something about a refund is that in the tune or for a new engine also these Jeep engines are designed to run a certain way I can’t understand why people try to get more out of them than the engine has just like people putting the throttle commander on the Jeep because they say it’s sluggish my gladiator moves right on down the road running 37 inch tires it is the gladiator rubicon model okay before I posted this I see it was the gas engine I guess now you can get a Hemi I don’t think you’re warranty is going to cover that good luck

Dude...use punctuation and lay off the white powder. It's obvious it's not diesel because it's NOT in the diesel section lol

Also perhaps you are happy with the (lack)performance of the vehicle stock but MANY are not. The pedal commander on the diesel wakes up the motor significantly since FCA purposely put a delay in the throttle response to improve EPA rating. You obviously don't have experience with higher performance vehicles.

On a side note...I have a diesel but the way this tuner has responded and been transparency is EXTREMELY rare in the tuning world(I come from Evolutions) and I am very impressed.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

I knew this was a possibility when I started tuning, and quite frankly why it took me so long to even offer stuff. With the way things were going I got to a point I felt confident enough I had a better solution than anywhere else.

To be honest I am not a business guy and I was never in this to make money. I am a family guy with two kids and a day job, and my wife was totally freaked when I told her I was gonna do this startup, just for this very reason. She said she knew I was good at what I do but things happen, and what then. Well she is right. I probably should have more stuff in place to protect all involved, but like I said, I just acted this paying part so I could justify the time.

I try to be as honest and transparent with people as possible. I do my best to respond quickly to any issues, and my hope is my reputation will speak for itself.

Now that this has happened, I can tell you it has really given me pause. Ryan seems to be really reasonable about this, but there are many who wouldn't and not sure I could weather that storm.

FWIW I have no hard feelings toward you nor do I blame you. Your responsiveness and engagement is leaps and bounds ahead of Magnuson and HPT - you helped me quickly resolve the lurching/drivability issues (and there was noticeable improvement). I can't imagine trying to resolve issues through either Magnuson or HPT, as it's basically impossible to get ahold of them or get timely responses. I'd also argue there's no reason to think this would have had a different outcome - as cmb396 said, even new stock engines can and have blown.

It actually crossed my mind that it must be equally as nerve-racking being on the other side of this as the tuner, be it liability or morality. There's obviously a level of expectation when you purchase something and have it installed (i.e. warranty), but in my opinion it's a different beast if you take the route I did. I knew that and accepted it. Obviously I didn't want this to happen, but it did and it's my responsibility to fix it.

 

[DAVECS1]

FWIW I have no hard feelings toward you nor do I blame you. Your responsiveness and engagement is leaps and bounds ahead of Magnuson and HPT - you helped me quickly resolve the lurching/drivability issues (and there was noticeable improvement). I can't imagine trying to resolve issues through either Magnuson or HPT, as it's basically impossible to get ahold of them or get timely responses. I'd also argue there's no reason to think this would have had a different outcome - as cmb396 said, even new stock engines can and have blown.

It actually crossed my mind that it must be equally as nerve-racking being on the other side of this as the tuner, be it liability or morality. There's obviously a level of expectation when you purchase something and have it installed (i.e. warranty), but in my opinion it's a different beast if you take the route I did. I knew that and accepted it. Obviously I didn't want this to happen, but it did and it's my responsibility to fix it.

Well you and others on this forum are pretty cool customers. That is the same attitude I take towards this, but having someone's ride break under your watch, none of us want that. I treat people the way I would want to be treated, and when it is your ride, we need changes and mods when we are not working or doing family stuff, cause that is our time, right? So even if it is a quick reply I am letting you know when I can get things resolved.

With all that said. Even if I do drop tuning new customers. Everyone that has my tune will always have my support.

Ryan I will try and help how ever I can. Not that I expect you would trust my tuning again, but I know my way around Hemis if you go that route. If you were closer, I am always up for a garage day.

 

[steve68]

It could have been added c cylinder pressure that caused rod to break at the cap, or a a rod bolt could have been fatigued or stressed, over torqued, there's many variables when you have the little hole,

Buddy's boat, SBC 350 Ram Jet, 9 miles out, throws the rod, towed in, but calls me says listen to this, starts it up, its banging, Of course I tell him to "Shut it off", ends up couple months prior got a tank of water and hydro locked the motor, drained everything, got it running, built a nice bullet proof bottom end for it. Did the hydro locking bend a rod, over stress a cap, over shear strength the rod bolt,

 

[Elff]

Thanks, just saw your email and responded. Appreciate that you reached out.

Just to answer other questions and maybe shed some light:

* This was pretty much entirely 91 octane fuel at this point, as I had filled up the tank with 91 prior to the install.
* As far as when and how: it was basically a WOT pull as I was merging onto the freeway from about ~50mph. Car in front of me was being a tad sluggish, and when they switched to the left lane it was clear so I let it rip. Within a few seconds of it kicking down it pretty much blew up: immediate loss of oil pressure, white smoke, dead. It all happened pretty quickly, but there was nothing leading up to it that indicated anything was going to happen. I haven't pulled the codes yet, but the only one I saw was the low oil pressure. Engine was running smooth, wasn't rough or stuttering - literally went from normal to blown in the blink of an eye.

A Couple of things.
1. California sucks. You need some 93 Octane goodness.
2. I am curious as to what your rpms were like before you punched it. In the Kappa world, the majority of engine failures on tuned cars have occurred by punching it when they were not already in the powerband and under boost. It seems like the shock from going from no boost to WOT throws a severe shock at the engine. In the Kappa world, the Piston Ring would pull of the piston and then badness would occur.

FYI I am a tuner, and used to be very proficient in HPT and ran into a similar issue. Engine went Kaboom. In my case, it was due to the timing chain letting go, which is kind of a known thing in the 2.0L world. But until I knew that was the cause, I was completely blaming myself for the last change I made in the tune.

So I totally feel your pain and I totally understand @DAVECS1 current mental state.

This is the risk we run, when we try to push the limits.
ReBuild it stronger and better.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

A Couple of things.
1. California sucks. You need some 93 Octane goodness.
2. I am curious as to what your rpms were like before you punched it.
…
This is the risk we run, when we try to push the limits.
ReBuild it stronger and better.

1. Can’t overstate that. If it weren’t for my close friends out here, I’d be gone.

2. I think that’s what happened here. The kickdown was too much. In that sense, could I have seen it coming and prevented it? Probably. But if that’s the case, it was inevitable. If it wasn’t this time, when I was close to home, it would have eventually happened, potentially out on the trails.

As for rebuilding, still on the fence - there is a stock engine on eBay with 4K miles, but a 392 swap is oh so tempting.

 

[Elff]

I would consider a 392 swap a re-build, and quite an awesome one.

 

[19Comanche86]

I would be extremely surprised if it had to do with Daves tune, I doubt it was a lean condition or detonation. At the end of the day the rods, pistons and main/rod caps in these engines weren’t designed for boost, the increased cylinder pressure, coupled with shit internals could have been the cause. I know there was a set of forged internals for sale in the market place here not long ago. Forge It, pulley down and see what it can do. Good luck with the rebuild. I haven’t gotten the courage to boost mine yet. After years of having a Turbo 2001 cobra and a Paxton supercharged 5.0 coyote. I just got tired of reliability issues.

-Ryan

 

[Mojave2021]

I’m amazed and impressed by how well Ryan and Dave have dealt with this situation.

In terms of the 392 swap I don’t think you’ll pass smog in CA. I know you have a few years before you’ll need to smog it but it could be an issue if you want to keep it long term. I believe you have to replace it with the same 3.6L to pass.

 

[NachoRuby]

I’m amazed and impressed by how well Ryan and Dave have dealt with this situation.

In terms of the 392 swap I don’t think you’ll pass smog in CA. I know you have a few years before you’ll need to smog it but it could be an issue if you want to keep it long term. I believe you have to replace it with the same 3.6L to pass.

Even though the crate 392s come with epa certification paperwork? That sucks!

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

Even though the crate 392s come with epa certification paperwork? That sucks!

Californanny.

 

[Jeepin' John]

I would be extremely surprised if it had to do with Daves tune, I doubt it was a lean condition or detonation. At the end of the day the rods, pistons and main/rod caps in these engines weren’t designed for boost, the increased cylinder pressure, coupled with shit internals could have been the cause. I know there was a set of forged internals for sale in the market place here not long ago. Forge It, pulley down and see what it can do. Good luck with the rebuild. I haven’t gotten the courage to boost mine yet. After years of having a Turbo 2001 cobra and a Paxton supercharged 5.0 coyote. I just got tired of reliability issues.

-Ryan

This is along the lines of my own thinking. I'm not convinced that the pentastar is designed to do much more than it does N/A.

Coming from nitrous LS1 and LS2 oem GM V8's. You could tune a 125 or 150 shot and the engine handle it reliably"forever." Some engines have a lot more in them. Some don't.

 

[DAVECS1]

I have built in pretty stout torque management on the 850Re. The torque converter should unlock on a down shift and allow the gear to slide in. I actually have been working to make that a smoother transition.

This was complete unexpected as I have about 400 hours of data on this version of 2021 tune.

I have nothing solid to go off of here. Anything would be speculation.

And as far as how things are going, that is all Ryan he is being a very reasonable about this.

I am pretty rattled.

Before today I would of swore up and down this platform can be made to work reliably long term, now I have no leg to stand on

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

I have built in pretty stout torque management on the 850Re. The torque converter should unlock on a down shift and allow the gear to slide in. I actually have been working to make that a smoother transition.

This was complete unexpected as I have about 400 hours of data on this version of 2021 tune.

I have nothing solid to go off of here. Anything would be speculation.

And as far as how things are going, that is all Ryan he is being a very reasonable about this.

I am pretty rattled.

Before today I would of swore up and down this platform can be made to work reliably long term, now I have no leg to stand on

I mentioned to you in email, but I’ll pull any data (codes) I can when I get a chance. Not sure if it will help, but I treat this as a mutual endeavor.

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