STOLEN from my driveway this morning! New Jeeps are crazy easy to steal apparently...

[BLK HOLE]

Hey pal I[m going to call you out - you are being very toxic and ignorant with this statement. So your saying that as a disabled vet, since I cannot afford $50,000 to build a garage on my lot where I have a old and run down 1938 house that needs repairs that I shouldn't be allowed to own a vehicle that can get me out into the woods and enjoy some of the little things in life seeing as how I can no longer function like a normal person and go backpacking or hiking? Hmm. I guess entitled jerks like you are the only ones who should be allowed to have enjoyment in this world. Check yourself.

You comprehend poorly.

And you definitely don’t understand how entitlement works.

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[NachoRuby]

Your assertion is totally a matter of opinion. My opinion is 1 in 406 is a much, much better way. It is tangible and reflects your risk as a person and hence much more meaningful...Especially after the "Do nothing side" has been tossing out ridiculous #'s like 1 in many Million. HUGE difference now isn't there btwn 1 in 406 vs 1 in a million.

No one is saying do nothing. But I'm less worried about petty thieves, so what would concern me more are these professional thieves that can start a jeep with a laptop, like unfortunately happened to the OP here, if I'm worried about anything. So for me, the gas door lock, which many other light trucks and cars also don't have, and the hood lock aren't concerns. My Jetta doesn't have a gas door lock either, and the hood lock on most vehicles is just a cable that can easily be cut from the grille, if they are cutting things anyway. So for me, The fact that professional thieves can break into and drive away in a jeep with just a computer are the bigger issues for me.

 

[joeym7]

You can't look at national rates! That's like spreading the Chicago murder rate across the whole country and make it look like someone in WY is very likely to get murdered.
And you are saying that YOU are correct, and based only on that, and no one else is right if they don't take drastic actions? Really?
Look at the theft density, per capita, or even just per location.
Those in Odessa, TX, Yuba City or San Francisco, CA should be taking more actions than someone in IA or ID. That's way off logical. It sounds more like you work for the government where they make numbers say anything they want.
Love it - you use national rates to say "I am right, everyone else is wrong if they don't agree". That's funny.

You have chosen, yes, by choice, to leave out the CONTEXT. Vehicles get stolen - but look at HOW, where, and the situation. I watch Des Moines fairly close because if something is going to happen, it will be Ankeny or Des Moines metro area - especially some areas (and I don't mean the places some may think I mean, either! Those are actually SAFER)
Here's what Des Moines police have to say about thefts in this area -

Police say too many drivers are making it easy for thieves.
Police say drivers have given thieves a happy hunting ground by leaving unattended vehicles running in parking lots or leaving the keys in an unlocked vehicle.

"We saw this happen this winter, where people would leave their car running so they could run to the gas station quick and grab a coffee and they come outside and their car's gone," Ludwig said. "So now in the extreme heat, you want to keep your car cold, and people are leaving their cars running. They're just getting lazy."

Yeah, many of the thefts have been simple, not complex like you seem to believe. Unlocked vehicles, running vehicles, vehicles with stuff laying in plain sight, vehicles left in parking lots, etc.
So really, according to the police, that number could be cut drastically if people simply - roll up windows, take keys out, don't leave it running while you run in for a cup of coffee at Kwiktrip.
My bet is that of all of the vehicles stolen in our area - they were not tech thefts, but ordinary left the keys in the car thefts.
Walk through the parking lot at the Iowa State Fair - no joke, roughly 1/3 of them have windows at least part way down.
Employee parking lot at work - people left purses, phones, even keys, laying in the cars and sometimes even with windows down.
So - take your favorite number and cut that quite a bit because most thefts were due to fools. Not tech. Get back into context. Just because 750 cars in some area were stolen doesn't mean that number can't be cut maybe by even half by simply rolling up windows, locking doors, taking keys. It's really that simple.

Even the DC police have suggested most thefts are a matter of owners being lazy and can be prevented with these simple means -

An unlocked vehicle with a key in the ignition is an open invitation to any thief, regardless of any anti-theft device you may use. The common-sense approach to protection is the simplest and most cost-effective way to avoid would-be thieves.

You should always secure your vehicle, even if you’re parking for “just a minute.” Do this by:

Removing your keys from the ignition.
Locking all of your doors.
Closing all of your windows.
Parking in a well-lit area.
Never leaving your engine running and vehicle unlocked while you run into your home, a convenience store or anywhere else

Yes, thefts of vehicles with fobs and such happen, but most are plain old-fashioned thefts the simple way because owners/drivers are lazy..

Oh, and you left this part out, of course -
Vehicle thefts had been trending downward in the 26 years since they peaked at 1.7 million in 1991, falling 56 percent to 724,872 in 2019, according to the FBI.

You take the national number, apply it to all locations, and say people like me who have passive entry and a fob are WRONG if we don't take "drastic action".

Love your conclusion - you are right, anyone else is on the wrong side.
Even though in many areas police say many thefts would not even happen if you simply locked the doors and took the keys.

Context - can't just toss out a national number. Context. How many were high-tech thefts vs. "the car was hot so left the windows down:" or "I needed to let it warm up while I got coffee".
Notice those are the first things the police routinely mention!! That could mean - it's the most common ways things get stolen.

But obviously, you are right, anyone else is WRONG! OK

No kidding! But we don't have those statistics at hand now do we, different sample sets...If you have them post them.

So what is better to make up numbers or use the statistics we have???

Cheese, you started with 1 in many million, at least the national rate brings that nonsense down to reality!!!

Are you kidding me or what!

Maybe you have a statistic for your zip code that says only 1 in a million cars are stolen there LOL!

We have to stay in the realm of reality not made up stuff, not anecdotal stuff, not #'s pulled out of the air, if we want to have an objective discussion!

If you have a better report than the FBI's post it.

 

[am1978]

Your assertion is totally a matter of opinion. My opinion is 1 in 406 is a much, much better way. It is tangible and reflects your risk as a person and hence much more meaningful. This must be true because both ways are mathematically equal but you don't like my way because it highlights the flaws in your assertions about being complacent...This is especially true after the "Do nothing side" has been tossing out ridiculous #'s like 1 in many Million. HUGE difference now isn't there btwn 1 in 406 vs 1 in a million.

But hey, if you think leaving a $70K car unprotected is cool have at it. Don't bother me none, but the BS being slung that those who protect their vehicles are "misguided" is malarkey.

The real question is why are you trying to convince others to follow your position. Kinda odd isn't it.

After your edits…. When did I say I took a position on this? When did I say anything about complacency? I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

[am1978]

Where’s the OP? Any updates on your GPS tracking?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Your assertion is totally a matter of opinion. My opinion is 1 in 406 is a much, much better way. It is tangible and reflects your risk as a person and hence much more meaningful. This must be true because both ways are mathematically equal but you don't like my way because it highlights the flaws in your assertions about being complacent...This is especially true after the "Do nothing side" has been tossing out ridiculous #'s like 1 in many Million. HUGE difference now isn't there btwn 1 in 406 vs 1 in a million.

But hey, if you think leaving a $70K car unprotected is cool have at it. Don't bother me none, but the BS being slung that those who protect their vehicles are "misguided" is malarkey.

The real question is why are you trying to convince others to follow your position. Kinda odd isn't it.

I could say the exact same thing.

And you generalize by using a national number and applying it to all areas instead of using full context - 3 areas in CA and one in TX are the biggest risks in the country, and those massive numbers skew the whole picture. Leave out TX and CA and see what the average is.

No one is suggesting be complacent. No one here, not at all. We're only suggesting "drastic actions" are not needed - even according to the DC police and Des Moines police. They all suggest common sense, don't be lazy, and further, they suggest that the thefts you bring up in that number are easily avoided by common sense - not drastic actions.
When police talk of theft, it's always lock doors, roll up windows, take keys, don't leave it running.
Why is that? Because most thefts are just that simple, and simple to avoid.
I know of no person personally that has had a car stolen. In all of my years, working on cars for decades, towing, impound, friends, neighbors, whatever, I know of no one personally, or that I've even been told about personally (other than forums, of course, that's where the densities increase greatly) who has had a vehicle stolen.
Vandalized, yes. Stuff stolen from inside, yes.
Does that mean it doesn't happen? No, it just means the odds are low for me. So ordinary means will most likely protect my stuff. No need to rip out that passive entry, no need to take the batteries out of the fob, no need for a $700 anti-theft system. Not here.
In CA or parts of TX, I would highly recommend it for sure.
But people here, according to the cops, get stuff stolen because they are lazy.
So if everyone rolled up windows, took out the keys, locked the doors, parked in safe places, watched their surroundings, etc. I bet the DSM area thefts would be cut at least in half.
Think of that.
Take the total number of thefts, dig into it and see which were crimes of opportunity, which were stolen because of lazy owners, and I bet that number drops a heck of a lot.
Some vehicles are stolen to commit other crimes - that's going to be the one that has the keys in it, or the doors are unlocked, etc. So again, be smart. No need to panic or take drastic measures in most of the country. Use simple, basic security.

BTW - as head of safety and security for On With Life years ago, I was trained by the Ankeny police and Iowa Highway Patrol on such things..... including how employees should be aware of surroundings when coming to work or leaving work. I had to take training and I had to train the OWL staff on carjacking, thefts, women avoiding being attacked going to or from car, etc.
I don't come into it fully blind and unarmed.
But again, because you say so, anyone who won't take drastic action is wrong. Even though most thefts are simple..... lazy drivers.

 

[joeym7]

No one is saying do nothing. But I'm less worried about petty thieves, so what would concern me more are these professional thieves that can start a jeep with a laptop, like unfortunately happened to the OP here, if I'm worried about anything. So for me, the gas door lock, which many other light trucks and cars also don't have, and the hood lock aren't concerns. My Jetta doesn't have a gas door lock either, and the hood lock on most vehicles is just a cable that can easily be cut from the grille, if they are cutting things anyway. So for me, The fact that professional thieves can break into and drive away in a jeep with just a computer are the bigger issues for me.

And that mode is going to get a lot worse than better any time soon...Very few on this forum even knew it existed myself included before that thread was posted about 1 month ago. As it gets more known it will proliferate and attract many more thieves. There are lots of benefits of it to (them).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hey pal I[m going to call you out - you are being very toxic and ignorant with this statement. So your saying that as a disabled vet, since I cannot afford $50,000 to build a garage on my lot where I have a old and run down 1938 house that needs repairs that I shouldn't be allowed to own a vehicle that can get me out into the woods and enjoy some of the little things in life seeing as how I can no longer function like a normal person and go backpacking or hiking? Hmm. I guess entitled jerks like you are the only ones who should be allowed to have enjoyment in this world. Check yourself.

I either don't remember, or didn't realize and should be saying mega-thanks for your service to us all.

Anyway, like my brother - They have a garage, and he being who he is, has no "stuff" in that garage. No real tools, a push mower, no garden tools, no hobby stuff, no golf clubs. His life is his family, his dogs and cats and his businesses. So what's in his garage is their vehicles. And yet - something has to sit outside.

M shop is large, 2 story, so of course when it was built it cost plenty - we sold a business and treated ourselves after getting out of that "heck". I had my shop built. $40K at that time, about 10 r so years ago. Try to build it now for that.
The addition on our garage wasn't cheap, either, and today, according to a contractor friend, we likely couldn't even afford it at $8+ for simple cheap studs, crazy plywood costs, and I don't even want to think about concrete. Then try to find a builder - our friend is months behind (due to shortages of supplies/materials and other issues)
Anyone who doesn't have a garage and is even thinking about building one, if you can afford it, do it now. It's getting worse and he doesn't see things coming down much if at all.

 

[joeym7]

After your edits…. When did I say I took a position on this? When did I say anything about complacency? I think you have me confused with someone else.

In that case my apologies, I was referring to the side making the argument to do less.

 

[joeym7]

I could say the exact same thing.

And you generalize by using a national number and applying it to all areas instead of using full context - 3 areas in CA and one in TX are the biggest risks in the country, and those massive numbers skew the whole picture. Leave out TX and CA and see what the average is.

No one is suggesting be complacent. No one here, not at all. We're only suggesting "drastic actions" are not needed - even according to the DC police and Des Moines police. They all suggest common sense, don't be lazy, and further, they suggest that the thefts you bring up in that number are easily avoided by common sense - not drastic actions.
When police talk of theft, it's always lock doors, roll up windows, take keys, don't leave it running.
Why is that? Because most thefts are just that simple, and simple to avoid.
I know of no person personally that has had a car stolen. In all of my years, working on cars for decades, towing, impound, friends, neighbors, whatever, I know of no one personally, or that I've even been told about personally (other than forums, of course, that's where the densities increase greatly) who has had a vehicle stolen.
Vandalized, yes. Stuff stolen from inside, yes.
Does that mean it doesn't happen? No, it just means the odds are low for me. So ordinary means will most likely protect my stuff. No need to rip out that passive entry, no need to take the batteries out of the fob, no need for a $700 anti-theft system. Not here.
In CA or parts of TX, I would highly recommend it for sure.
But people here, according to the cops, get stuff stolen because they are lazy.
So if everyone rolled up windows, took out the keys, locked the doors, parked in safe places, watched their surroundings, etc. I bet the DSM area thefts would be cut at least in half.
Think of that.
Take the total number of thefts, dig into it and see which were crimes of opportunity, which were stolen because of lazy owners, and I bet that number drops a heck of a lot.
Some vehicles are stolen to commit other crimes - that's going to be the one that has the keys in it, or the doors are unlocked, etc. So again, be smart. No need to panic or take drastic measures in most of the country. Use simple, basic security.

BTW - as head of safety and security for On With Life years ago, I was trained by the Ankeny police and Iowa Highway Patrol on such things..... including how employees should be aware of surroundings when coming to work or leaving work. I had to take training and I had to train the OWL staff on carjacking, thefts, women avoiding being attacked going to or from car, etc.
I don't come into it fully blind and unarmed.
But again, because you say so, anyone who won't take drastic action is wrong. Even though most thefts are simple..... lazy drivers.

Again, stay away from anecdotal evidence "I know no one who had a car stolen". Neither do i thankfully, that doesn't change the FBI statistic...We can only base a discussion on factual evidence. The FBI statistic qualifies, your anecdotal claims do not...This is just statistics 101.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Oh, and you left this part out, of course -
Vehicle thefts had been trending downward in the 26 years since they peaked at 1.7 million in 1991, falling 56 percent to 724,872 in 2019, according to the FBI.

Hey, this just hit me - the peak was 1.7 million in 1991.
This is over 30 years later - what's the population of driving age people, or car owners today, vs. 1991. So if we extrapolate that out, with many many more drivers or car owners today than 30 years ago, and the lower numbers of vehicle being stolen, the number of vehicles being stolen per driver or per vehicle total at that time is a lot lower - not just the total number, but the number stolen per owned vehicle on the road has taken a nose dive.
I bet there weren't conversations like this in 91 where people said you had to take drastic actions.......
So 1.7 million of how many total vehicles vs. 725,000 out of total vehicles today? The number has dropped, but the percentage of vehicles stolen has dropped a lot as well.

 

[chorky]

I either don't remember, or didn't realize and should be saying mega-thanks for your service to us all.

Anyway, like my brother - They have a garage, and he being who he is, has no "stuff" in that garage. No real tools, a push mower, no garden tools, no hobby stuff, no golf clubs. His life is his family, his dogs and cats and his businesses. So what's in his garage is their vehicles. And yet - something has to sit outside.

M shop is large, 2 story, so of course when it was built it cost plenty - we sold a business and treated ourselves after getting out of that "heck". I had my shop built. $40K at that time, about 10 r so years ago. Try to build it now for that.
The addition on our garage wasn't cheap, either, and today, according to a contractor friend, we likely couldn't even afford it at $8+ for simple cheap studs, crazy plywood costs, and I don't even want to think about concrete. Then try to find a builder - our friend is months behind (due to shortages of supplies/materials and other issues)
Anyone who doesn't have a garage and is even thinking about building one, if you can afford it, do it now. It's getting worse and he doesn't see things coming down much if at all.

No worries, my pleasure, it was all worth it, I dont typically spout that stuff off but that guys statement was not cool. The sad thing is there are lots of people who are even far worse off - and many dont have the support of the va or insurance.... Anyway, yeah wood costs are insane. And the loggers aren't the ones driving it, if anything they're making less than they did a few years ago. I did look at a small 12x20 option but the cost was crazy as construction would also require cutting some hazel trees and prep the ground first. There's a lot of people though who would never be able to fit a gladiator or even wrangler in their garage - and far more people live in apartments in cities. Thats pretty sweet you have a nice large shop! Also provides a place to do things in bad weather too! I agree with you that its going to be quite a while until things become 'affordable' for most people again.

The old state I grew up in went so far as to publicly suggest by a state agency that people purposefully buy 'junk cars' to go to hiking trails or camping areas because theft is so bad in those areas and they're not prosecuting anybody. The terrible thing about that is a lot of those thieves will still slash somebody's tires even of a junk car out of spite because they didn't offer something to be stolen. So I would still argue that a garage does help and is really nice as it offers more than an added layer of security, but if somebody wants something, it won't really do anything but slow them down. It is terrible that we live in an era where people have the 'victim blaming' attitude instead of pushing and rallying for actual prosecution of crimes, and where a person has to consider not living a life they want out of concern that what they worked hard for will be destroyed or stolen. Even in the state I currently live in, there is concern of parking a vehicle and leaving it alone in certain areas.

 

[am1978]

And that mode is going to get a lot worse than better any time soon...Very few on this forum even knew it existed myself included before that thread was posted about 1 month ago. As it gets more known it will proliferate and attract many more thieves. There are lots of benefits of it to (them).

Key code grabbing has been “a thing” for over 7 years. It’s safe to say this is pretty well-known.
https://www.wired.com/2015/08/hackers-tiny-device-unlocks-cars-opens-garages/

 

[Gvsukids]

But hey, if you think leaving a $70K car unprotected is cool have at it. Don't bother me none, but the BS being slung that those who protect their vehicles are "misguided" is malarkey.

So really, according to the police, that number could be cut drastically if people simply - roll up windows, take keys out, don't leave it running while you run in for a cup of coffee at Kwiktrip.

Is mine easier to steal with the doors off?

 

[joeym7]

I’m not arguing about taking precautions or adding security devices. That FBI stat is a little meaningless since it applies to “all motor vehicles”. Some are easier to steal than others. That stat on its face leaves out critical information. Motor vehicles of any model year, particular makes/models, locales/zip codes, and a host of other variables. We aren’t all driving F-150s or Honda Civics.

Do you have a nation wide statistic for Gladiators? I'd love to see it. And because they are a niche vehicle (mostly) that would have to be the number stolen vs the number of Gladiator owners per say. I doubt it exists...Just comparing the number stolen vs all stolen cars is meaningless because relatively there isn't that many gladiators. Using the 150's to compare doesn't hold water, everyone and their brothers have one so more will be stolen. Only a relatively few have a gladiator...

In statistics choosing the right sample set is the most important thing.

Until someone produces a better, or more targeted (eg to gladiators) study the FBI statistic is all we have and is much more meaningful than opinions and anecdotal evidence.

I'm routing for folks to come up with a better study!!! If it tells me to draw a different conclusion and it is sound study I would sure consider it. I try to base my conclusions on the facts at hand, not the facts I hope. Not always easy, because all the facts aren't always available. Still better that the other options.

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