2021 gladiator death wobble

[545moose]

New (to me) 2020 JT Rubicon 3.6L w/17k mi. owner here as of last night and couldn't be happier, but it wanders like a drunken Stevie Wonder. It's also got 20" wheels and Nitto Ridge Grapplers on it, don't judge me, that's how it sat Long story how I arrived at a JT, but nevertheless here I am. I had done a lot of research on lifts with JLUs and heard of "the wobbles" and many have had it solved using the AEV stabilizer, but I know there's more to the entire equation. It seems it's been documented on my truck before, but not sure if anything was ever done about it, just could see the complaints doing the VIN search and info from the NHSTA.

My main question is where can I get the torque specs to check EVERYTHING first before I run off and try to find a dealer to have look at it and address the wandering? This is my first solid axle truck and coming from Toyota/Lexus IFS and hydraulic KDSS, something more simple to work on is a relief. Is there an online FSM or spec sheet? I know there's a TSB out on it, and an outstanding recall that it needs done as well, but I just want to have my ducks in a row prior to showing up to the service dept. TIA.

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[JET_83]

New (to me) 2020 JT Rubicon 3.6L w/17k mi. owner here as of last night and couldn't be happier, but it wanders like a drunken Stevie Wonder. It's also got 20" wheels and Nitto Ridge Grapplers on it, don't judge me, that's how it sat Long story how I arrived at a JT, but nevertheless here I am. I had done a lot of research on lifts with JLUs and heard of "the wobbles" and many have had it solved using the AEV stabilizer, but I know there's more to the entire equation. It seems it's been documented on my truck before, but not sure if anything was ever done about it, just could see the complaints doing the VIN search and info from the NHSTA.

My main question is where can I get the torque specs to check EVERYTHING first before I run off and try to find a dealer to have look at it and address the wandering? This is my first solid axle truck and coming from Toyota/Lexus IFS and hydraulic KDSS, something more simple to work on is a relief. Is there an online FSM or spec sheet? I know there's a TSB out on it, and an outstanding recall that it needs done as well, but I just want to have my ducks in a row prior to showing up to the service dept. TIA.

have you done the TSB and gotten the steering box replaced with the new one yet? It’ll be a black steel one if you have instead of the aluminum one that came on the older models.

 

[jsalbre]

Here you go:

 

[chorky]

I have read through this thread a couple times now and havent seen it posted. Maybe I just missed it. but. All the folks experiencing DW. Has anyone had Jeep or anybody else check their alignment? A few folks suggested those with DW look into what causes it. There could be many things. One major factor is improper caster angles. Usually with a lift. So. With QC being a known issue during covid times the manufacturer of the non-adjustable control arms is suspect. I would imagine that replacing with aftermarket adjustable arms and being able to change alignment numbers would provide solutions.
i experienced this first hand on my TJ years ago when a shop instaled a lift and totally jacked up the caster as in they didnt do it properly at all. I faught with them Because they had no clue what actually caused DW. Finally they succumbed to my demand and adjusted it according to what I specified. DW instintaneouslt went away and never came back

Since then I constantly see people talk anout DW especially on TJ’s. Few realize the inpact a lift has on angles. Now granted folks with a stock JT are experiencing these problems. But. With non-adjustable components, somebody by now should have had the thought to at least attempt aftermarket arms and made adjustments just to experiment.
anyway. Food for thought.

 

[545moose]

have you done the TSB and gotten the steering box replaced with the new one yet? It’ll be a black steel one if you have instead of the aluminum one that came on the older models.

I have not, I'll call my local dealer and make an appointment for it now.

 

[seven30]

DW and wander dont seem to always go together. I noticed the MT tires that came on my JT were really fantastic offroad but did have more pavement wander than AT tires. A failed steering damper on my JT allowed some DW. Replaced it and that went away.
I run 37 cold in the AT tires. This rises to about 42 hot. Tracks decently on pavement.

 

[Geoarch]

Yes Ive seen DW back in the 70s on an old Willys truck that was pretty beat. DW is nothing new. Just the forums and such. Before the web only dealers knew how many owners were complaining.

Both my 53 M38A1 and 73 CJ-5 never had it, but both had zerk fittings that I greased religiously. I have the CJ-5 for 15 years and used it off road much of that time. Of course, they both had leaf spring suspension that I never modified.

 

[ecidiego]

DW and wander dont seem to always go together. I noticed the MT tires that came on my JT were really fantastic offroad but did have more pavement wander than AT tires. A failed steering damper on my JT allowed some DW. Replaced it and that went away.
I run 37 cold in the AT tires. This rises to about 42 hot. Tracks decently on pavement.

I've kept my 21 Mojave right there on the Falken ATs. 37 cold. 0 issues. Factory specs are good.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

New (to me) 2020 JT Rubicon 3.6L w/17k mi. owner here as of last night and couldn't be happier, but it wanders like a drunken Stevie Wonder. It's also got 20" wheels and Nitto Ridge Grapplers on it, don't judge me, that's how it sat Long story how I arrived at a JT, but nevertheless here I am. I had done a lot of research on lifts with JLUs and heard of "the wobbles" and many have had it solved using the AEV stabilizer, but I know there's more to the entire equation. It seems it's been documented on my truck before, but not sure if anything was ever done about it, just could see the complaints doing the VIN search and info from the NHSTA.

My main question is where can I get the torque specs to check EVERYTHING first before I run off and try to find a dealer to have look at it and address the wandering? This is my first solid axle truck and coming from Toyota/Lexus IFS and hydraulic KDSS, something more simple to work on is a relief. Is there an online FSM or spec sheet? I know there's a TSB out on it, and an outstanding recall that it needs done as well, but I just want to have my ducks in a row prior to showing up to the service dept. TIA.

Here's the TSB - print it and show them.........

Since then I constantly see people talk anout DW especially on TJ’s. Few realize the inpact a lift has on angles. Now granted folks with a stock JT are experiencing these problems. But. With non-adjustable components, somebody by now should have had the thought to at least attempt aftermarket arms and made adjustments just to experiment.
anyway. Food for thought.

I've posted in great detail many times info from steering and suspension engineers and designers, what will and what won't, what's a fix and what's a bandaid, etc. It's all here as far a death wobble.

 

[545moose]

Here you go:

Where is that out of? Is that the FSM or anywhere as a .pdf by chance? I ask since I'm new to Jeeps/SFA, and trying to learn what the components are now compared to coming from Toyotas and IFS, the UCA is not the same thing lol!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Upper control arm goes from the frame on each side to the top of the axle tube on each side.
Lower control arm goes from the frame on each side to the bottom of the axle tube on each side.
Track bar goes from frame on the left or driver side over to the right and connects to the right axle tube. That keeps the front axle "centered" under the truck. Because it swings in an arc as the vehicle lifts up on a bounce the axle will shift left a bit and when you hit bottom it will center again, perhaps slightly to the right and then when the vehicle settles back to curb height, the front axle is pretty much centered under the truck again by the track bar.
The control arms set the caster. Caster is not adjustable without replacing the control arms either with longer lower arms for more positive caster, or with adjustable lower control arms. It gets into more depth and detail with lifts but that's the gist generically speaking for an unlifted of slightly lifted Jeep, etc.
Camber cannot be adjusted without replacing parts. Camber is very seldom a concern as it's set at the factory when the steering knuckles are put in place and parts welded into the ends of the axle tube.
Toe is set very similar to IFS/independent front suspension except you have a drag link from the pitman arm all the way over to the right knuckle and then a single tie rod from the right knuckle over to the left knuckle. Set toe with the tie rod, center the steering wheel with the drag link.

 

[jetrocker]

Just an update on my front end wobble/shimmy issue. After 2 trips to dealer with a thorough check of everything connected to the front end (per their summary invoice of all work), including rechecking all torques, alignment, and tightness of everything, it was fixed with new, beefier tires. Jeep refuses to acknowledge this, per communications both I and the dealer had with them thru Jeep Care (joke). In my case anyway, I had the cheap baseline Bridgestone tires which have very flexible sidewalls and apparently get even more wimpy at around 8K miles or so..when the shimmy/wobbles starts after hitting minor cross-lateral bumps in the expressway, like at a bridge transition.

The new tires are a higher load range and also have Kevlar sidewall material. Goodyears. In a video they sent me, you can clearly see the significant difference in sidewall stiffness between the two when they pressed on both using hand pressure. And again, I had no problem with this until about 8K miles, so it appears to be the factory Bridgestones fatigue somewhat at this point and the front end shakes when "excited". The dealer has had about 10-12 come in with this problem and they say in each case, it's this tire issue. YMMV. Just another data point.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's not the "wimpy sidewall" as you call it, it's a problem with the tire otherwise. My generals have a standard type sidewall, they aren't a heavy load range, and I have zero wobble or balance issue.
The tires may have cause it, but the stiffer sidewall wasn't the solution, it's just that the tires on it now aren't causing a problem and are likely far better balanced. Death wobble isn't due to "wimpy sidewalls". (higher air pressure would stiffen things up)

Tires is a possible cause, but it's a problem with the tire like balance or other issues. Not sidewalls. In fact, some of those who have the issue have some of the stiffest tires out there.

In a nutshell - higher load range isn't the fix - getting a defective or improperly balanced tire out of the equation is the fix.

 

[jetrocker]

My tires were inspected and also balanced twice, alignment x2. Tires fixed my problem. Not going to get into an argument here. Just sharing my experience. Dealer says this fixed a dozen Gladiators, including mine. As I said, YMMV.

 

[Hog]

It's more than just a death wobble, it had leaking exhaust pipe due to a bent flange from the factory, leaking left rear shock, knocking noise when braking, and the rear axle had to be replaced due to a bad limited slip diff binding. It only has 4,827 miles and has been back and forth to the dealer several times. I mean how many more problems do I need to have with this thing? I've already tightened every ball joint and suspension bolt on this thing.

The quality control is terrible at Jeep, in my experience. My 21 Gladiator, Rubicon diesel had a check engine light when it was started at the dealership to offload my Gladiator. It was a bad DEF pump and it was completely out of alignment upon deliver from the factory as well. The dealership made it all right, but how could it even leave the factory that way? Answer, Garbage Quality Control.

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