2023 JT Willys Aftermarket “Max Tow Package”

[ShadowsPapa]

They can't deny your claim for doing something stupid or illegal.

Yeah, they can. Read all of the whole policy start to end, fine print and all. They usually say "unless engaged in illegal activity.........." etc. So if you vehicle is damaged in commission of a crime, they sure can deny it. Maybe you are lucky, or just missed that part..........
Stupid, no, but watch out for the rates.

Then there's the civil suits (as confirmed by the IHP officer I spoke with on the phone) and in some locations, they'll consider "could you have avoided the accident" or "how much did you contribute to the accident" meaning if a guy takes off from a stop sign thinking he's going to make it, and under normal circumstances he could because YOU would have full control of a properly equipped and loaded vehicle, then part of the blame - I've seen 40% - can be placed on you. That means even if he pulled away when he shouldn't have, properly loaded YOU could have averted disaster, you are xx% responsible - again, there goes rates (again, as confirmed by the IHP officer on the phone)
Not all states work that way but it's getting more common. If you could have braked or stopped in time to avoid it, but didn't for whatever reason, you have blame even though technically they started the whole thing. You were not able or willing to avoid it.
You can't just keep going if someone blows a light, you have to try to avoid them. If you don't, some places will put blame on you.
So you end up in a big battle, the other party takes you to court and how fun is that.
Why not avoid the whole thing and not be STUPID about it.

I got curious about all of this a while back, messaged the IHP, and got a nice call back from one of their officers who also does training, including accident investigations and so on.

Anyway, another zombie risen from the dead - over a year old in the ground, a bit musty.

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[Zachanadandy]

Yeah, they can. Read all of the whole policy start to end, fine print and all. They usually say "unless engaged in illegal activity.........." etc. So if you vehicle is damaged in commission of a crime, they sure can deny it. Maybe you are lucky, or just missed that part..........
Stupid, no, but watch out for the rates.

Then there's the civil suits (as confirmed by the IHP officer I spoke with on the phone) and in some locations, they'll consider "could you have avoided the accident" or "how much did you contribute to the accident" meaning if a guy takes off from a stop sign thinking he's going to make it, and under normal circumstances he could because YOU would have full control of a properly equipped and loaded vehicle, then part of the blame - I've seen 40% - can be placed on you. That means even if he pulled away when he shouldn't have, properly loaded YOU could have averted disaster, you are xx% responsible - again, there goes rates (again, as confirmed by the IHP officer on the phone)
Not all states work that way but it's getting more common. If you could have braked or stopped in time to avoid it, but didn't for whatever reason, you have blame even though technically they started the whole thing. You were not able or willing to avoid it.
You can't just keep going if someone blows a light, you have to try to avoid them. If you don't, some places will put blame on you.
So you end up in a big battle, the other party takes you to court and how fun is that.
Why not avoid the whole thing and not be STUPID about it.

I got curious about all of this a while back, messaged the IHP, and got a nice call back from one of their officers who also does training, including accident investigations and so on.

Anyway, another zombie risen from the dead - over a year old in the ground, a bit musty.

Like the dui example, civil and criminal liability is still there, and if you kill a bunch of people your policy won't cover near enough, but your insurance still pays. Again, almost every accident involves some sort of "criminal activity". Be that speeding, failure to yield, or whatever. They still pay. Sure if you rob a bank and get in a high speed pursuit they may invoke that clause, but towing a few hundred pounds over your rated limit? Every time the topic comes up I ask for 1 example and nothing. If it's something like an rv trailer in an accident, have you ever seen what happens to them? Are they going to pick up all the road debris, water that's no longer in the tank, passengers that are no longer in the vehicle, etc to go weigh it all in order to prove you were a few hundred pounds over? I'm willing to bet no, and any competent lawyer will just argue they weighed a bunch of stuff they found on the side of the road that wasn't even in your trailer. Nobody is saying throw a 12k pound trailer behind your JT and send it, but if I end up with 6500 pounds behind my mojave at some point I'm not even remotely worried about it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Are they going to pick up all the road debris, water that's no longer in the tank, passengers that are no longer in the vehicle, etc to go weigh it all in order to prove you were a few hundred pounds over?

You've never been involved in accident investigations, obviously. They don't even need to do that. They can tell how fast each vehicle was going, brake application, weight and so on. I've watched the IHP put it all together in the case of the kid who killed my father. The information they had was amazing.
Even in an accident I was in years ago - they knew how fast each vehicle was going, even how or if brakes were applied, acceleration and so on. And no, I don't mean "black boxes".
It's a real science. They don't need to pick up and weigh anything.

Again, almost every accident involves some sort of "criminal activity". Be that speeding, failure to yield, or whatever. They still pay.

Now you are REALLY digging deep. Totally missed the points.

I also never said "they won't pay", just that YOU can be held partially responsible, and in that case, it goes against you as being partly at fault, rates, rates, rates (and an excuse to be dropped)

The tow ratings on these push the envelope as it is - going over is just dumb, IMO. Why do it? Seems more of a "macho, I have a truck and I'll do what I want" bit and harm to others be damned for a lot of people who come asking about the ratings.
Buy the right truck for the job.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

You've never been involved in accident investigations, obviously. They don't even need to do that. They can tell how fast each vehicle was going, brake application, weight and so on. I've watched the IHP put it all together in the case of the kid who killed my father. The information they had was amazing.
Even in an accident I was in years ago - they knew how fast each vehicle was going, even how or if brakes were applied, acceleration and so on. And no, I don't mean "black boxes".
It's a real science. They don't need to pick up and weigh anything.


Now you are REALLY digging deep. Totally missed the points.

I also never said "they won't pay", just that YOU can be held partially responsible, and in that case, it goes against you as being partly at fault, rates, rates, rates (and an excuse to be dropped)

The tow ratings on these push the envelope as it is - going over is just dumb, IMO. Why do it? Seems more of a "macho, I have a truck and I'll do what I want" bit and harm to others be damned for a lot of people who come asking about the ratings.
Buy the right truck for the job.

I'm a little confused what your point was. I thought you were implying they won't pay.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I'm a little confused what your point was. I thought you were implying they won't pay.

Informing us we can be at fault if we cause an accident... not sure how under or over loaded would matter if I'm already at fault though....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm a little confused what your point was. I thought you were implying they won't pay.

They can deny claims if you are doing illegal things - running drugs, for example.......but I'm not saying they WILL, just that it's going to depend on the policy, state, and what you are doing. I've see the text. I was simply replying to the quote I quoted stating they can't deny a claim for doing something illegal - note I had the word "illegal" in bold, because depending on what it is, they can.

The tricky bit is that towing a 6500 pound trailer when your rating is 6,000 pounds isn't illegal, but it is dumb.
These do go through SAE testing to ensure you can steering and brake under various conditions.
There's also no law against falling asleep at the wheel and killing someone - even if you admit you haven't slept in xx hours. It's stupid, but it's not illegal.
Oddly, drinking over a certain amount and driving and killing is illegal, but aren't they really the same thing? Both stupid yet there's laws against one but not the other. You can stay away for 2 days straight, drive, kill someone, and the penalty is a ticket for crossing the line and/or failure to maintain control.
Stupid, but not illegal.
If stupid was against the law, most states could stop building highways due to lack of traffic.

I'm talking crime or criminal, not traffic violations.

Most don't really think of that as "criminal" even though it is going contrary to laws.
If you decide to run over a few people you don't like on a sidewalk, some policies will deny a claim for damage.
You have to read the policy closely. I've seen the fine print like that.

There may be exclusions for civil unrest - your car gets rolled and torched in a MN riot, you could be on your own.
Every state, every policy is different. Even the same company in a different state could have different coverage depending on if that state allows for exclusions.
It's next to impossible to make a blanket statement on some of this stuff.

(It's also stupid when people want to compare insurance costs, coverage in PA vs IA, that sort of thing. You can't. )

 

[Hootbro]

Most vehicle and road use violations of law are civil infractions and do no constitute criminality until extensive personal injury or death is involved.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Most vehicle and road use violations of law are civil infractions and do no constitute criminality until extensive personal injury or death is involved.

Said better than I did - that's why I said I wasn't talking traffic infractions like speeding, etc.

I was talking crimes.
Murder, drug running, and so on. (we had a few vehicles in our impound lot that had been involved in various crimes - one still had the body in it........ ewwww the smell, and the narcs got some really fun cars out of their work.)

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Said better than I did - that's why I said I wasn't talking traffic infractions like speeding, etc.

I was talking crimes.
Murder, drug running, and so on. (we had a few vehicles in our impound lot that had been involved in various crimes - one still had the body in it........ ewwww the smell, and the narcs got some really fun cars out of their work.)

If you’re murdering people or running drugs, I’d guess you’re not too worried about your vehicle being covered by insurance.

 

[Josh00333]

I appreciate the reply! The trailer we have is the Imagine 2500RL. It has a dry weight of 5,800 lbs. I don’t imagine we have 2,000 lbs of extra stuff, I was trying to be all encompassing with my scenario.

sorry, Boomer, that is a pretty large and heavy trailer for a gladiator. 100% empty no propane no water no food no gear. You’re on the upper end of all the gladiator specifications, especially in your case with your actual limits.. I would hazard to guess even hooked up that would actually be over your tongue weight. The truck would probably be overloaded not to mention the size of the trailer is over the maximum for the front area..

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