3.6 Engine - Now I understand the power issue

[ShadowsPapa]

Directly from a design engineer of the Gen 1 Pentastar team. The standard they were to meet was 1% at 150k miles.

Other than roller follower (rocker) issues, I'd not be surprised.
The Gen 2 is great as well, save for some cam issues.

But that's a really tight goal!

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[DanW]

Are you sure it's 1%? The EcoDiesel has a B10 service life of 150,000 miles, which means that 10% of the engines will either fail or require a major repair by 150,000. Life expectancy is on a bell-shaped curve. I'm pretty sure that a B10 service life of 150,000 miles is standard on all light duty engines. My guess is that the Pentastar also has a B10 life of 150,000 miles.

Think this way. That's 140,000 failures in 14 million Pentastars at 150k. It goes up to a higher percentage at higher mileage. So it's easy to see why mechanics think they are trouble prone. They have all seen them in the shop multiple times, many for similar things.

14,000,000 is a colossal number of engines.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Think this way. That's 140,000 failures in 14 million Pentastars at 150k. It goes up to a higher percentage at higher mileage. So it's easy to see why mechanics think they are trouble prone. They have all seen them in the shop multiple times, many for similar things.

14,000,000 is a colossal number of engines.

6 million out of Mexico alone.

I have a feeling someone's engine had something else going on......... things just don't sound typical for these. There's some amazing posts of people pulling some really full loads and having no issues. Threads like "what did you tow" or what are you towing or whatever. Some have some big loads and over a lot of miles. I just suspect there was more to it.

 

[ericw.]

6 million out of Mexico alone.

I have a feeling someone's engine had something else going on......... things just don't sound typical for these. There's some amazing posts of people pulling some really full loads and having no issues. Threads like "what did you tow" or what are you towing or whatever. Some have some big loads and over a lot of miles. I just suspect there was more to it.

Maybe, but that's 2 out of 2 engines that I've had with the same characteristics.

We don't need to focus so much on the blown engine. Simply the fact that they both have a tendency to run hot and will overheat if I don't pay attention on mountain passes.

The fact that '3.6 overheating/running hot' (in some variation) is a commonly reoccurring topic on Wrangler forums shows that it's not just me and both of my engines.

A short while ago I came across a post on a Colorado group, where people were complaining and in agreement about being stuck behind slow Jeeps. lol I felt bad because I'm that guy blocking up traffic while I try to keep my Wrangler at or under 245 degrees... manually shifting an automatic to manage temps. That shouldn't be normal.

My father's TJ doesn't have to be shifted manually.. His ram 3500 while loaded with a huge camper and towing his TJ doesn't have to be shifted manually. He's over there enjoying "luxuries" like cruise control. lol

 

[Gvsukids]

My 3.6 will complain about cooling the entire trip. Coolant temp will see 235 degrees on the trail with ease, 245 degrees on any highway mountain pass while it bogs down. Temps will climb until self-destruction if I don't back off.

It's one of the biggest reasons I have my 3.6 for sale right now and I'm swapping to the eco diesel.

How will that be better? I have a diesel work truck that screams driving into the wind uphill.

Empty, maybe.
But add 1000 pounds to your Jeep and try that and you’ll see the difference.

What's your payload capacity?

 

[Hootbro]

You've missed all of my other threads on engine temps, obviously.

No disrespect intended Bill, but not everybody reads everything you write or retains it to memory like it will be a mid term test exam question.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No disrespect intended Bill, but not everybody reads everything you write or retains it to memory like it will be a mid term test exam question.

True that. Poor wording. Point taken

 

[Stan H]

Well it lasted 140k which is about the lifespan of an engine according to the manufacturer.

Can you show me that in Writing ??
Cause I am at 135k and I need to start saving money now I guess

So really truly that's straight
I think you know it your behind is just chaffed cause yours let loose.

 

[Gladiatorx2]

I previously mentioned in a post my experiences with the 3.6 in the Dodge Charger Pursuit. We have a fleet of them. The average mileage to date is 175,000 to 200,000. The average idle hours are 13,000 to 15,000. Most fleet maintenance programs equate an idle hour the equivalent to 20 miles. That means up to an additional 260,000 to 300,000 miles!

You can do the math. From 2013 to date we have had zero engine failures . Radiator, cooling fans, oil coolers and thermostats are the most common maintenance items
Many of the 2013/14 models had cylinder head replacement as they were equipped with faulty heads. Regardless of mileage they were replaced for free.

As far as performance it is adequate, as it is quicker than the Crown Victoria that the replaced. Top speed on most is in the mid 130's

I have owned at least 10 3.6 engines and zero issues.

My only complaint is lack of low and mid range torque. I built an AMC 360 with Holley Fuel Injection. It had a 4 speed and was a CJ 7 with 35's and 4.10 gears. It was scarier due to its platform, but no quicker. Fuel economy was much worse. It was not capable of towing much.

Is the 3.6 ideal, no. Is it pretty good...in my opinion, yes.

 

[Gladiatorx2]

I should add that between Gladiator's 3 and 4 I owned a 2024 Bronco Badlands Sasquatch with the 2.7 ecoboost. The torque delivery was much better. The Tow rating was much worse. With the 35's and 4.70 gear I averaged 18.2 mpg from day one. With 37's and 4.10 I am sitting at 17.2 for the last 5 000 miles or so. With just 1 mpg difference I would think that on 37's the Bronco would have been about the same.

If they install the Hurricane in the Gladiator I will buy one. I truly think that would fit my needs.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The fact that '3.6 overheating/running hot' (in some variation) is a commonly reoccurring topic on Wrangler forums shows that it's not just me and both of my engines.

Links, please, so we see what you are seeing.
My gut tells me, knowing the Wrangler side of things, they are panicked over temps like 220-230

manually shifting an automatic to manage temps. That shouldn't be normal.

Actually, it is. Especially for transmission temperatures. The book even states as much to control transmission temperatures. For engines it makes sense as well as it's all about that load vs. throttle vs. RPM sweet spot for heat rejection. So it's "a thing" - use manual mode. It's there for multiple reasons, one is to control heating.

Funny thing is - you are the only one on the Gladiator side I see complaining about heat, other than one guy who insists anything over 220 is not normal and is dangerous. (bunk)
The Gladiator is rated to tow and has a payload rating well over the Wrangler - so if heating was an issue, I'd expect the JT people to be bitchen' up a storm more than any Wrangler owner.

Remember, the way things are rated is the SAE testing (and what engineers deem ok with a buffer based on supplier input) and such testing isn't for speeds of 60 mph on extreme inclines. So if you are trying to pull full payload or trailer capacity (likely ignoring the frontage calculations) and expect to keep up 60+ mph - what do you expect??

OF course what no one reveals when talking heating is - how is it modified? Tires? Added weight? Winch up front blocking air? No one admits that they already almost hit their max payload with steel bumpers, sliders, winch and winch plate, a bar and lights that partially block the grill........

Is your Jeep stock? Fully?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No disrespect intended Bill, but not everybody reads everything you write or retains it to memory like it will be a mid term test exam question.

(you are a good friend, keeping me in line..........)

 

[montechie]

I haven’t done it yet, but I’m really curious to have WranglerFix do the tune he’s offering on the ECU’s. Not sure about yours but my original ECU died quite spectacularly one day. His ECU replacement saved the whole vehicle.

Mine is still "fine", it had a period of misleading codes, but after a reset's been behaving the last few years. The WranglerFix ECU replacement is tempting while it's still available. That plus a tune would be interesting.

 

[Coltron_Actual]

Mine is still "fine", it had a period of misleading codes, but after a reset's been behaving the last few years. The WranglerFix ECU replacement is tempting while it's still available. That plus a tune would be interesting.

There was no bringing mine back. Fine one day, and then complete FUBAR the next. It threw codes for everything. Random misfires, all O2 sensors bad, and I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting about. I fully endorse the product, but I'm not sure if it's worth the $650 to get one if you aren't having problems though. Although I've sort of believed it's not "if" the PCM fails, but "when".

He's not advertising the tune on the website anymore. A post by the man himself in a related thread on TJ forum points to avoiding legal troubles. I've emailed to see if it's something still offered, but not advertised.

 

[Mr Miami]

Wow, I didn't think I was opening a can of worms (large can) when I posted about my experience with the 3.6 in a Grand Cherokee driving across the Northwest.

I have absolutely nothing against the 3.6 and personally own two of them now ('16 and '24). With my JKU, it has taken me off-road numerous times and never missed a beat. The JTR is new but when I pulled my boat trailer (6k+) out at the marina to take the boat home for some maintenance, it felt very capable to tow where ever I wanted to go (full disclaimer, I was towing on a flat road for less than 10 miles round trip). But even pulling the boat out of the hole at the marina, it came right up and I barely felt any resistance even with all the weight.

Again, my earlier comments were comparing a rental Grand Cherokee with the same 3.6 driving across the Northwest at 80-90 MPH on some relatively steep hills at elevations over a mile high. The vehicles (a lot of Fords) that had blowers on them really blew by me while I was doing a lot of downshifting. That's it .... that's all. Maybe comparing a NA engine to one with a blower(s) at 8k feet doing 80MPH is not a fair comparison, and probably isn't.

But so far, for what I do, and I'm sure most of other people, the 3.6 does what it is designed to do and I am very happy with both of mine.

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