3.6 oil cooler fail

[Maximus Gladius]

No way in hell I'd use a "stop leak" for a newer engine when there are solutions out there - like either a new OEM setup, or a Dorman setup.
I'd not risk all of the other seals and rubber or neoprene parts in these just to avoid fixing a cooler than leaks.
That stuff is for last resorts and I'd never accept it being put into anything I have, new or old, unless I planned on dumping it off on someone else really soon.
That stuff is crap.
Good grief - go get a new piece and new seals and be VERY VERY careful with the install, making sure the seals don't shift and that you torque things down EVENLY, and a bit at a time.
I'd suspect some of the failures are owner-induced - meaning at least some of the failures of the new parts are due to DIY people making a mistake.



What antidrainback issue? you mean the one that doesn't really exist except in some marketing materials?
What a hoot.

As far as the cooler - from what I've seen one some forums, I'd bet at least some of those are self-induced by DIYers.
I've seen where people who do their own oil changes totally screw up on the o-ring bit - that's a owner issue, one of the "I can do anything, this is simple, instructions? I don't need no damned instructions" type believing because they think they can, that they should. Naw, some should just keep hands off such things. believe me, the stuff that gets sent to me for repairs is so often self-induced issues - I look at some things when I open the package and say to myself - yeah, this wasn't wear or normal breakdown, he tried to fix it himself, and now he's paying me to correctly fix it.

Yes, the design isn't great because the materials respond to heating and cooling cycles by aging and eventually getting brittle and failing. The solution would be an aluminum housing.
The o-ring seals themselves should not be any issue for years - why are o-rings not failing in large numbers elsewhere?

He’s baaaaaack! Great to see you’re in full spirit and giving it in your “never be humble opinion”! You were missed by many Bill. Hope you’re healing up well.

Sponsored

 

[Stan H]

It very could depending on the failure mode which is exactly why I asked what the failure mode generally is. If it's a crack in the housing, not, won't fix. If it's leaking o-rings due to heat cyling, damned well could. If it leaking due to heat cycling resulting in less clamping pressure, it could adress that also if only temporarily.


I have seen people with 2024 models bitching about oil cooler leaks. Did Daddy Stellanis just forget to put the new uber improved cooler on those or do they save them up for those of us needing replacement parts only? Maybe that's why I often hear people bitching about the housings on backorder????

No, it will be an aftermarket, cast aluminum oil cooler housing for me if or when. Not buying anything Stellanis is dishing again if I can help it. They have had years, damned near a decade to address the oil cooler housing, no anti drainback filter design and wiped cam issue and they have not addressed any of it. They just sell us fundamentally flawed engineering and then sit on their hands hoping the warranty runs out.

@Judd ain't knocking those that feel more secure with a Baxter but ,I have been starting and restarting my Jeep for 4 years at least 4 or 5 times a day . It isn't a dry cam issue . There is no way in #e!! The cam is bone dry after sitting past 35minutes or 3-5 hours. If the oil people are using drains off that complete I question did they add a can of paint thinner in the oil ?
The oil leaves a film. We lube our O-rings before filter installs. The piston skirts are lubed with squirters. The main bearings . So 3.5seconds . Is enough time to ruin an engine. ? Hahaha.
I rolled a 79 ford one time in a curve in winter weather and it rain upside down for 30 seconds or more as I gained my bearings. I literally took it home . Went to Napa bought bearings rod and mains.
Dropped the pan loosened each main cap loosened rods one at a time replaced all of em the journals looked great but I did it anyway. Found 1 main that bearing was rubbed down some but journal looked good. Slid em out slid em in tightened and torqued everything back. Replaced pan. Let it set over night( for gasket sealer to set up good.
Went down the next morning fired it up . Ran that sucker for years after wards .
I do not buy into that . No offense.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@Judd ain't knocking those that feel more secure with a Baxter but ,I have been starting and restarting my Jeep for 4 years at least 4 or 5 times a day . It isn't a dry cam issue . There is no way in #e!! The cam is bone dry after sitting past 35minutes or 3-5 hours. If the oil people are using drains off that complete I question did they add a can of paint thinner in the oil ?
The oil leaves a film. We lube our O-rings before filter installs. The piston skirts are lubed with squirters. The main bearings . So 3.5seconds . Is enough time to ruin an engine. ? Hahaha.
I rolled a 79 ford one time in a curve in winter weather and it rain upside down for 30 seconds or more as I gained my bearings. I literally took it home . Went to Napa bought bearings rod and mains.
Dropped the pan loosened each main cap loosened rods one at a time replaced all of em the journals looked great but I did it anyway. Found 1 main that bearing was rubbed down some but journal looked good. Slid em out slid em in tightened and torqued everything back. Replaced pan. Let it set over night( for gasket sealer to set up good.
Went down the next morning fired it up . Ran that sucker for years after wards .
I do not buy into that . No offense.

Anyone who has had their cluster display showing the engine side of things -oil pressure - when they push that button to start it would see that the high volume oil pump defaults to high volume and according to the documents is higher volume than the pre-PUG engine.
That pressure builds really fast and you don't have pressure until the oil galleries are filled with oil and that means things are getting wet.

Build/rebuild an engine and then prime the oil pump while watching for oil on the top end - it's actually coming out the openings before pressure is fully built.

 

[Stan H]

Anyone who has had their cluster display showing the engine side of things -oil pressure - when they push that button to start it would see that the high volume oil pump defaults to high volume and according to the documents is higher volume than the pre-PUG engine.
That pressure builds really fast and you don't have pressure until the oil galleries are filled with oil and that means things are getting wet.

Build/rebuild an engine and then prime the oil pump while watching for oil on the top end - it's actually coming out the openings before pressure is fully built.

Your correct. I don't know what would happen to one of these of left sitting for years and never started. .
And you bring up a great point. When something like I mentioned happened although I preoiled all those bearings. The older engines you could pop that distributor and stick a drill and hex rod and spin the pump . How or even could one of these motors be primed prior to start after years of setting ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

How or even could one of these motors be primed prior to start after years of setting ?

only with a pressure system. That's the only way - remove a gallery plug, hose in a pressure tank, and push oil into the galleries.

Guess what the TSMs (Technical Service Manuals) of the 70s said about priming:
Fill the oil pump with petroleum jelly and reassemble.

And that's how thousands and thousands of engines were done.

 

[Judd]

Well folks, here is my problem. My wife's car crapped it's clutch a few weeks ago so a car down right now. Just got the car to a mechanic and ot looks like it will be awhile before it's fixed due to parts availability issues. About a week after my wife's car crapped, we were roughly 600-700 miles away visiting my mom for Thanksgiving boom, my Gladiator started leaking!

So, I'm not a dude that has alot of disposable income and can not readily just put my second vehicle in the shop over in Ga., grab a rental, come go to work while a shop fixes the Jeep. So, contrary to the learned folk on here, I have used Blue Devil stop leak twice on two different vehicles and for different leaks.

First time was when I was on the Trans Lab in Labrador City. The countershaft seal started pooring oil. Would literally leak out a quart a day or more. A real PITA if anyone here nows that route and how remote it is. A heavy truck repair shop literally gave me about a pint or two as last resort along with a gallon of oil to get me to Churchill or Red Bay (which was 250 miles of nothing but dirt, no stores, no gas, no nothing).

Well, it worked and worked well. A few days later, it was no longer lesking. Made it all the way back home to Ga. from Labrador City. Had about 60K miles on that DL650 and I sold it years later with around 120K miles on it. Guess what, no issues from the Blue Devil treatment years and 60K mile previously!!!

Second time I used it was on a 74 Ford F700 Dump truck I bought back in 2020 or so. It was a vehicle used in a ag program at a college. Only had something like 40K miles, hardly no rust and the interior was still in good shape due to being under a pole barn for all those years. It did need a battery, fuel was dumped, changed out the fuel filter, points, condensor, cap, rotor, plug wires and plugs. Believe it or not, the carb was mostly fine.

Cranked it up and drove it directly to a heavy fruck shop and put tires and tubes all round because the tires, while having plenty of tread, were age cracked like crazy. Picked it up and drove it to a friend's shop to change all the fluids. Bad news! Thing was leaking like a sieve. I changed all the fluids and literally put 150$ worth of Blue Devil and put it in anything that had oil in it including the hydraulic system that really leaked bad from the dump cylinders.

Drove it 700 miles back to AR at a governed 50mph checking and topping off oils ever few hours. Over the next few month I added a bit more Blue Devil to the engine and hydraulics and most of the leaks either stopped or were greatly improved. The only exception was the rear main that continued to leak and of which I just ignored.

Sold it two years later to, believe it or not, some dude that lived with-in an hour of where I bought it in Ga. and he drove it back.

So, I've had good luck with the stuff.

And guess what? After a week or so of pouring that terrible snake oil in,,,,, surprise, haven't smelled any oil burning off on hot exhaust in two, three days. Will be changing out the oil with the terrible snake oil it in a few weeks. In contrast, it was leaking at a pretty decent rate and had to put two quarts in over about 1K miles.

Hopefully the wife's car will be addressed in the new few weeks and I'll have the ability to address the oil leak on Gladiator. Might buy the Dorman oil cooler kit and put it up just in case.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Well folks, here is my problem. My wife's car crapped it's clutch a few weeks ago so a car down right now. Just got the car to a mechanic and ot looks like it will be awhile before it's fixed due to parts availability issues. About a week after my wife's car crapped, we were roughly 600-700 miles away visiting my mom for Thanksgiving boom, my Gladiator started leaking!

So, I'm not a dude that has alot of disposable income and can not readily just put my second vehicle in the shop over in Ga., grab a rental, come go to work while a shop fixes the Jeep. So, contrary to the learned folk on here, I have used Blue Devil stop leak twice on two different vehicles and for different leaks.

First time was when I was on the Trans Lab in Labrador City. The countershaft seal started pooring oil. Would literally leak out a quart a day or more. A real PITA if anyone here nows that route and how remote it is. A heavy truck repair shop literally gave me about a pint or two as last resort along with a gallon of oil to get me to Churchill or Red Bay (which was 250 miles of nothing but dirt, no stores, no gas, no nothing).

Well, it worked and worked well. A few days later, it was no longer lesking. Made it all the way back home to Ga. from Labrador City. Had about 60K miles on that DL650 and I sold it years later with around 120K miles on it. Guess what, no issues from the Blue Devil treatment years and 60K mile previously!!!

Second time I used it was on a 74 Ford F700 Dump truck I bought back in 2020 or so. It was a vehicle used in a ag program at a college. Only had something like 40K miles, hardly no rust and the interior was still in good shape due to being under a pole barn for all those years. It did need a battery, fuel was dumped, changed out the fuel filter, points, condensor, cap, rotor, plug wires and plugs. Believe it or not, the carb was mostly fine.

Cranked it up and drove it directly to a heavy fruck shop and put tires and tubes all round because the tires, while having plenty of tread, were age cracked like crazy. Picked it up and drove it to a friend's shop to change all the fluids. Bad news! Thing was leaking like a sieve. I changed all the fluids and literally put 150$ worth of Blue Devil and put it in anything that had oil in it including the hydraulic system that really leaked bad from the dump cylinders.

Drove it 700 miles back to AR at a governed 50mph checking and topping off oils ever few hours. Over the next few month I added a bit more Blue Devil to the engine and hydraulics and most of the leaks either stopped or were greatly improved. The only exception was the rear main that continued to leak and of which I just ignored.

Sold it two years later to, believe it or not, some dude that lived with-in an hour of where I bought it in Ga. and he drove it back.

So, I've had good luck with the stuff.

And guess what? After a week or so of pouring that terrible snake oil in,,,,, surprise, haven't smelled any oil burning off on hot exhaust in two, three days. Will be changing out the oil with the terrible snake oil it in a few weeks. In contrast, it was leaking at a pretty decent rate and had to put two quarts in over about 1K miles.

Hopefully the wife's car will be addressed in the new few weeks and I'll have the ability to address the oil leak on Gladiator. Might buy the Dorman oil cooler kit and put it up just in case.

Now here’s a great real science life story with real use results and it didn’t blow up. I totally agree with ‘if you know what’s leaking and it’s a parts, gasket/seal fix and can peal off the dollar bills, then do the repairs, if money is tight and you have to use the vehicle, then you do what you have to to keep going’.

The curious side of me would want to see what it looks like inside the block and under the valve covers after many miles put on such as you’ve done.

 

[Stan H]

Now here’s a great real science life story with real use results and it didn’t blow up. I totally agree with ‘if you know what’s leaking and it’s a parts, gasket/seal fix and can peal off the dollar bills, then do the repairs, if money is tight and you have to use the vehicle, then you do what you have to to keep going’.

The curious side of me would want to see what it looks like inside the block and under the valve covers after many miles put on such as you’ve done.

Still wouldn't do it . Sorry @Judd but that's what ownership is all about your do with yours as you see fit .

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Still wouldn't do it . Sorry @Judd but that's what ownership is all about your do with yours as you see fit .

But in his case would you say the Blue Devil worked or do you think it’s done damage?

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Does Blue Devil say it’s “conditioning” the seals? This stuff isn’t just looking for the leak and dealing with it by gelling up only at flat spots or cracks in a seal, it’s reacting with everything that’s rubber or silicone. It’s all at the mercy of this product.

 

[DanJT]

That's why I did the oil cooler/lower intake aluminum replacement. I do notice however, the o rings on both the Mopar ones I ordered and the one that came with the Amazon oil cooler looked an felt exactly the same.either way, 6 months later and everything runs great.

 

[smlobx]

Well folks, here is my problem. My wife's car crapped it's clutch a few weeks ago so a car down right now. Just got the car to a mechanic and ot looks like it will be awhile before it's fixed due to parts availability issues. About a week after my wife's car crapped, we were roughly 600-700 miles away visiting my mom for Thanksgiving boom, my Gladiator started leaking!

So, I'm not a dude that has alot of disposable income and can not readily just put my second vehicle in the shop over in Ga., grab a rental, come go to work while a shop fixes the Jeep. So, contrary to the learned folk on here, I have used Blue Devil stop leak twice on two different vehicles and for different leaks.

First time was when I was on the Trans Lab in Labrador City. The countershaft seal started pooring oil. Would literally leak out a quart a day or more. A real PITA if anyone here nows that route and how remote it is. A heavy truck repair shop literally gave me about a pint or two as last resort along with a gallon of oil to get me to Churchill or Red Bay (which was 250 miles of nothing but dirt, no stores, no gas, no nothing).

Well, it worked and worked well. A few days later, it was no longer lesking. Made it all the way back home to Ga. from Labrador City. Had about 60K miles on that DL650 and I sold it years later with around 120K miles on it. Guess what, no issues from the Blue Devil treatment years and 60K mile previously!!!……

I’ve driven the Trans Lab and you’re right it is the most desolate road in North America and I’m including the Haul Road going to Prudhoe Bay. Glad you made it through there. Did you go to the Manic 5 Dam?

 

[Judd]

@Judd ain't knocking those that feel more secure with a Baxter but ,I have been starting and restarting my Jeep for 4 years at least 4 or 5 times a day . It isn't a dry cam issue . There is no way in #e!! The cam is bone dry after sitting past 35minutes or 3-5 hours. If the oil people are using drains off that complete I question did they add a can of paint thinner in the oil ?
The oil leaves a film. We lube our O-rings before filter installs. The piston skirts are lubed with squirters. The main bearings . So 3.5seconds . Is enough time to ruin an engine. ? Hahaha.
I rolled a 79 ford one time in a curve in winter weather and it rain upside down for 30 seconds or more as I gained my bearings. I literally took it home . Went to Napa bought bearings rod and mains.
Dropped the pan loosened each main cap loosened rods one at a time replaced all of em the journals looked great but I did it anyway. Found 1 main that bearing was rubbed down some but journal looked good. Slid em out slid em in tightened and torqued everything back. Replaced pan. Let it set over night( for gasket sealer to set up good.
Went down the next morning fired it up . Ran that sucker for years after wards .
I do not buy into that . No offense.

I don't have a Baxter unit and doubt I ever will as I don't thinks it's the "silver bullet" to correct the cam issue and it sure ain't gonna address my once leaking oil cooler.

After alot of research, I think the oil cooler leak issue is, in most cases, a leak coming from the sealing o-rings resulting from the effect of thousands of heat cycles on the o-rings themselves combined with reduced clamping force as a result of those thousands of heat cyles on the housing material itself. Basically, the composite material is slightly deforming over time under the clamping bolt heads. This results in marginially less clamping force over time. Combine that reduced clamping force with o-rings that lose their ablility to return to their original shape (basically harden up and take on a flattened shape) and you get alot of leaking from the oil cooler junction.

I think the Dorman oil cooler being cast in aluminum is one answer to this issue. Stellanis should have already got off their ass and done this but hey, leave it to capitalism and the aftermarket to do the right thing and at try to offer a potential fix.

Better o-rings is the other. Hope the Dorman kit will address the o-ring issue as well. So that addresses the oil cooler leak issue IMO.

The crappy cam issue? Again, I do not think there is a single failure mode nor a single fix. It's way more complicated than the oil cooler issue thst Stellanis shoulda already got off their ass and adressed.

1. The design of the oil galley itself. While I have not torn down a 3.6 and tried to really sit down and figure it out,,, alot of folks that have state that like on alot of engines, the cams are last in line before draining back to the pan.

2. Modern oils not having a good additive package due to certain additives that were once used in high contact areas that usually didn't neccissarily have oil pressure like a cam, rod od main bearing. No more zinc or moly due to not playing well with cats.

3. Modern, super then oils that I honestly believe were picked by the manufacturer to appease CAFE standards rather than ultimate reliability. And yes, I know variable cam timing devices/cam phasers run pretty much hydraulic equipment or an automatic trans valve body. I also know that idling in 100+ ambient temps is not for 0W20 oils, especially those oils that favor emmisions equipment preservation over exceptional wear prevention additive packages.

4. Start/Stop tech added due to CAFE concerns. If you do not defeat the Start/Stop BS, it's shutting down alot more than 4-5 times a day, it's could be 20-30 times a day or better depending. And it's shutting off when the oil is hot.

5. Stellanis not getting off their ass, kicking tgeir powertrain engineers in the ass and telling them to fix this damned cam and oil cooler issue. Geeze folks, the cooler issue has been and issue for what, a damned decade or more and it should be a relatively easy/low cost issue to address. No excuse. Stellanis will not get any more of my money after having a problem plagued Ram Cummins 3500 and not this Gladiator. If tgey can't get off their collective ass to aðdress two, long going issues that frequently cause their customers real issues, especially when at least one issue should be a easy, cost effective fix,,,,,,, screw them.

Do I think any one of those issues is "THE ISSUE"? Why of course not but I do believe that all those issues add up and I will do my due diligence, research and mack

I’ve driven the Trans Lab and you’re right it is the most desolate road in North America and I’m including the Haul Road going to Prudhoe Bay. Glad you made it through there. Did you go to the Manic 5 Dam?

We actually camped at the overlook!!!

I changed my wife's front tire for a knobbie there too. Turned out to be a PITA because the little 12v compressure didn't have enough ass to pop the bead up on the rim. We down to the truck stop about a mile from the dam looking for ether to no avail. Ended up using a cap full of white gas camp stove fuel to blow the bead up on the rim.

Btw, black flies tore us up at that spot!!!!

 

[smlobx]

^^^^
We camped at that spot and that’s where the evening picture of the dam was taken.
the flies and mosquitoes were the worst of any place we’ve ever been in the world. With so few people there you wonder what those flies and mosquitoes eat in order to survive!

 

[Stan H]

Modern oils not having a good additive package due to certain additives that were once used in high contact areas that usually didn't neccissarily have oil pressure like a cam, rod od main bearing. No more zinc or moly due to not playing well with cats.

Zinc was a thing in much higher levels exceeding 1500ppm in old style race rod and flat tappet style rockers which did not feature a roller rocker . It was also common for big V-Twin flat tappet air cooled motorcycle engines to use such oil.
As Zinc is applied over and over and over through countless hours and heat cycles it attaches itself to metal parts this then in return left a sacrificial zinc zddp coating thereby softening or quieting the tappet. It literally did nothing more than coat everything. Molybdelum ( Moly) does the same thing coats things over time. Someone got smart a few years back even figured out it can coat projectiles used in weaponry , and it did speed up the projectile but what they discovered was the moly was slowly coating the barrels and then accuracy fell off the map not to mention it made the weapon very dirty.
Now with Zinc and Moly to imagine those 2 additives going into a modern engine that has solenoid that push high pressure oil to open up the high side of the lifters is troubling. It would eventually straight Gum up the works .

In today's oils especially modern synthetics additive such as Hybrid Ash is used the base oils of modern synthetic oils are so refined that oils of old even with additive could never come close to the strength of the film that is left on the metal by modern oils.
Modern oils for the win.

Sponsored