Amp specs for Alpine Premium System?

[Kevin_D]

I did mine how I did for sound clarity. Wasn't necessarily for how "loud" I could get it (that was an end result and it turned out so good I was talked into entering contests by the shop I bought the stuff from). I heard sounds in my music I had not heard before. I already had high frequency hearing loss to some extent by then but still - I could hear some of the background instruments and vocals I'd not really heard like that before. I had to have some real "power" and really good speakers to get to that point.
I also had the Alpine CD that had a mix of music on it that demonstrated more clearly how things sounded with good clean power.
So for me, it started out wanting to hear the music as it was intended to be heard, and hear ALL of it - hey, I didn't know there was sitar in that piece, sort of thing.

With that system, you didn't have to have the windows shaking to hear the music, ALL of it, well.
But if you wanted that outdoor concert sound, you had that as well. It was more like the band was right there.

That's what I'd like out of this truck - true quality sound reproduction, to hear those vocals or instruments you don't normally get to hear in just "so-so" systems.

Meh…
The road noise and shitty compression algorithms kill most of the subtleties anyway.

Kevin

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[Radio Guy]

Are you talking dB changes in acoustic power or dB changes in power driving the speaker? I can easily hear a 1dB change in acoustic power from aligning speaker cross overs with tones and reading results with a acoustic dB meter. I got to the point were I was making small changes of 1dB and less in cross overs using just my ears.

I’ve said it before…


Here's some interesting reading...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure
Look at the Examples of Sound Pressure table in particular. You'll note that hearing damage will begin to occur at 85dB.
Even low quality speakers will produce close to 85dB with only 1 watt of power.
Also worth mentioning, a 3dB level change is barely noticeable, and 5dB is noticeable. To double the loudness, you need a 10dB increase, which is a 10 times increase in power.
Bottom line: a change from 23W to 40W will be a barely noticeable increase in loudness.

Kevin

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Meh…
The road noise and shitty compression algorithms kill most of the subtleties anyway.

Kevin

Yeah, but if I've always used my tunes for non-road purposes, too. Loading up a felled tree, unloading a load of block, just hanging out with the cooler and some guys having a few drinks.....
I have ripped some of my own vinyl and try to use a better bit rate.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Are you talking dB changes in acoustic power or dB changes in power driving the speaker? I can easily hear a 1dB change in acoustic power from aligning speaker cross overs with tones and reading results with a acoustic dB meter. I got to the point were I was making small changes of 1dB and less in cross overs using just my ears.

OK, you are hired - next time you are in Iowa - I'll supply the amps, cable, beer, etc.

 

[YayMud!]

I’ve said it before…


Here's some interesting reading...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure
Look at the Examples of Sound Pressure table in particular. You'll note that hearing damage will begin to occur at 85dB.
Even low quality speakers will produce close to 85dB with only 1 watt of power.
Also worth mentioning, a 3dB level change is barely noticeable, and 5dB is noticeable. To double the loudness, you need a 10dB increase, which is a 10 times increase in power.
Bottom line: a change from 23W to 40W will be a barely noticeable increase in loudness.

Kevin

It's not at all about increasing the max volume. It is about clarity and fullness of sound. When I added larger and higher quality 4 ohm speakers to my Jeep I gained a lot of clarity, but I lost the rich powerful bass because the 2 ohm Alpine amp is not supplying enough power to the speakers. I now have to turn the stereo up to over level 20 to equal the same volume I was able to obtain before around level 10.

If all I wanted was a louder stereo I would have gone with speakers that can handle a lot more power and much stronger amps. But stereo competitions and hearing loss are not really my thing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's not at all about increasing the max volume. It is about clarity and fullness of sound. When I added larger and higher quality 4 ohm speakers to my Jeep I gained a lot of clarity, but I lost the rich powerful bass because the 2 ohm Alpine amp is not supplying enough power to the speakers.

What he said.

 

[Kevin_D]

Are you talking dB changes in acoustic power or dB changes in power driving the speaker? I can easily hear a 1dB change in acoustic power from aligning speaker cross overs with tones and reading results with a acoustic dB meter. I got to the point were I was making small changes of 1dB and less in cross overs using just my ears.

Then you, my friend, have exceptional hearing. Most people cannot perceive a 1dB change in SPL.

Kevin

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Then you, my friend, have exceptional hearing. Most people cannot perceive a 1dB change in SPL.

Kevin

Might clarify with "most MEN........" because women have superior hearing. My wife can hear things that only our cats can otherwise hear.

 

[Kevin_D]

Might clarify with "most MEN........" because women have superior hearing. My wife can hear things that only our cats can otherwise hear.

Evolution.
It comes from them listening for us to do something stupid.

Kevin

 

[Radio Guy]

Others have been around when I used to make these adjustments and could also hear the small changes. Actually everyone involved agreed that around 1dB is about the lowest perceivable change in acoustic level that could be discerned reliably.

If you have an SPL meter you can test your own ears. Make a switchable attenuator that will provide a 1dB change in acoustic level that is verified on the SPL meter, then send a tone out to the speakers and make the 1dB change. I think anyone can hear the change. For low power use a cheap L pad in the speaker path will do with a switch that bypasses it.

Then you, my friend, have exceptional hearing. Most people cannot perceive a 1dB change in SPL.

Kevin

 

[downtroddengoat]

Has anyone been able to pin down the amp specs? I am replacing the soundbar speakers and am looking at the Infinity Kappa 60csx. My concern is that the speakers are at 2.5 ohms and may be too far outside specs.

 

[lhigham]

Hi all,

I have a Wrangler with the Apline premium setup which I think is quite similar to the Gladiator install. It's a hybrid which apparently means I need to be afraid to install amps of any substance. (the dealer has made it quite clear that they're clueless about what will happen if I put 100A worth of amps in and that if there are any errors or faults they're not going to fix anything under warantee, of which I have more than four years remaining so would just as soon not lose it).

Questions I have, if anyone feels like answering :

Do you think that (focal ps 165 fse (shallow) 6.5") replacement speakers with max 60 watts (4 ohms) would be driven well enough by the Alpine amp ?

In addition, if I change out the Alpine sub (which I understand from this thread to have four voice coils) to a (JL Audio Stealthbox 2 ohm) sub with a single voice coil should I just use one of the four pairs of sub wires to connect it to the factory amp or combine the four pairs down into one pair to 'un bridge' the amp?

Thanks in advance,
Lars

 

[Radio Guy]

In addition, if I change out the Alpine sub (which I understand from this thread to have four voice coils) to a (JL Audio Stealthbox 2 ohm) sub with a single voice coil should I just use one of the four pairs of sub wires to connect it to the factory amp or combine the four pairs down into one pair to 'un bridge' the amp?

Thanks in advance,
Lars

I don't have the specific answer for the Alpine amp but its generally a bad idea to parallel multiple amplifier outputs to the same speaker voice coil. Some amps will blow up and others may not. This would be a question for the amplifier mfr. You also don't want to leave any amplifier speaker outputs unterminated and by only using one output of four that were in use, you would only be driving the speaker with 1/4th the power.

 

[lhigham]

I don't have the specific answer for the Alpine amp but its generally a bad idea to parallel multiple amplifier outputs to the same speaker voice coil. Some amps will blow up and others may not. This would be a question for the amplifier mfr. You also don't want to leave any amplifier speaker outputs unterminated and by only using one output of four that were in use, you would only be driving the speaker with 1/4th the power.

Thanks Radio Guy - much appreciated

I got an answer from JL Audio (very impressed with their response time) :

We are actually trying to get our hands on a 4XE model in R&D so they can test fit the enclosures. From some photos we have gathered, the battery for that vehicle lifts the rear floors a bit and it may not allow the enclosure to be installed properly. For now, I would not recommend ordering that Stealthbox until we specifically list the 4XE in the online fitment guide as being tested.​

​

As for the questions on wiring to the OEM amp, I would not recommend that as the factory amp uses the 4 coils in order to be able to use less power per channel while still getting decent power delivery to the sub. Once you try using just two channels, you drop power in half which will result in very underwhelming performance.​

​

Given the Jeep dealer's statement that my warantee would be at risk if I add amps, my plan now is to leave the stock amp and sub for now and swap the stock Alpine front and overhead speakers for those realtively low power Focals (ps 165 fse 4 ohm / 60 watts RMS max) and hope the stock amp can drive them sufficiently.

Thanks again,
Lars

 

[lowso]

I did mine how I did for sound clarity. Wasn't necessarily for how "loud" I could get it (that was an end result and it turned out so good I was talked into entering contests by the shop I bought the stuff from). I heard sounds in my music I had not heard before. I already had high frequency hearing loss to some extent by then but still - I could hear some of the background instruments and vocals I'd not really heard like that before. I had to have some real "power" and really good speakers to get to that point.
I also had the Alpine CD that had a mix of music on it that demonstrated more clearly how things sounded with good clean power.
So for me, it started out wanting to hear the music as it was intended to be heard, and hear ALL of it - hey, I didn't know there was sitar in that piece, sort of thing.

With that system, you didn't have to have the windows shaking to hear the music, ALL of it, well.
But if you wanted that outdoor concert sound, you had that as well. It was more like the band was right there.

That's what I'd like out of this truck - true quality sound reproduction, to hear those vocals or instruments you don't normally get to hear in just "so-so" systems.

what's your set up?? alpine or basic?

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