Another Cam bites the dust...

[chr15m]

My SIL has a 2012 Focus that had the transmission issue. The one that Ford basically said "it's a feature, not a bug" for Focus and Fiestas (a friend also had a Fiesta with the Amazing Shuddering Transmission). Yet go to any transmission shop and there were stacks of that transmission (according to the other forums). It took Ford quite a while before admitting they screwed up.

The other issue Ford was reluctant to take ownership on was the continued problems with painting aluminum and the eventual corrosion. When it started to impact the Expeditions, Ford blamed owners for not keeping their vehicles clean and denied warranty claims. Some owners fought Ford and were reimbursed for repainting of liftgates.

I haven't paid much attention to Ford's issues since ~2018 timeframe.

But yes, I agree that all manufacturers have issues. VW had the infamous MAF sensor and window regulator issues in the MKIV Golfs and Jettas.

One vehicle issue I forgot to mention was what I thought a most egregious f**king of owners (in my time as an automotive enthusiast). The Audi S4 V8, 2004-08 model years (iirc).

The 4.2L V8 had plastic timing chain guides and tensioners that would break on a whim. Some owners got 20,000 miles, some got 100k+. The problem affected all the 4.2L engines, but the highest concentration was in the S4, I think. When the plastic parts broke, it was rare the engine escaped damage.

The "best" part? The 4.2L V8 had the timing chains on the back of the engine. The issue was impossible to fix without removing the engine. And removing the engine required disassembly of pretty much everything from the firewall forward.

The replacement kit was in the $3000+ range and years later $2000. Now it's about $1500. The labor was around $5000-$8000, depending on the shop.

Sounds like the Evo Xs with the glass transmissions. That sucks.

When I refer to Ford im looking more at the mid and full size market over the last 5ish years.

They've had a lot of issues but there are lots of TSBs and revisions within the generations. Not just with the engines either.

Im not necessarily defending them since they seem to have quite a few problems, it's just that they seem to apply engineering to products already in production. I don't see that as often anymore. Cost seems to be a major prohibitor for that. Which again is likely why they've had some bad publicity for their recalls and warranty claims.

Sponsored

 

[MPMB]

What I'm seeing reported in forums pre-dates 2020 model year in several cases.
We can't forget that some FCA vehicles with the upgrade engine are just now hitting the mark where they need a cam - some go over 100,000 before the issue presents itself, some fail below that, but still in an older model.
I've seen people in the Wrangler side talking of their 2019 just now needing a cam - they don't go any 10K/year.

We know the failure hits JL and Ram models as well. For some reason, doesn't seem to be as prevalent with the Grand Cherokee and that seems a bit odd. It happens, it's not hard to find examples out there, but not in the numbers of the JT.

The Promaster keeps coming up but that didn't get the VVL engine until 2022 model year.

Not disputing your logic, time and math - just tossing out some other observations on this side (and conversations about the backorder with my dealership people)

I don't doubt that this issue has been around for a while since I've seen it when researching my cam failure.

So, in the random thoughts I had, which you touch on here - why some engines last 100k miles before problems vs. the JTs proclivity to have the issue earlier than other applications.

I wonder if it has to do with engine placement in the chassis. Does the JT have the 3.6l mounted at a steeper angle than a 1500 or GC? Maybe this angle starves the top of the valvetrain?

Rhetorical: What's the failure frequency between transverse-mounted engines and non-transverse-mounted (what's the term here - normal? in-line? straight?).

In any case, my other SIL and her husband have a ProMaster #vanlyfe ('21, I think) with the 3.6l. I'll be curious if that develops any issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder if it has to do with engine placement in the chassis. Does the JT have the 3.6l mounted at a steeper angle than a 1500 or GC? Maybe this angle starves the top of the valvetrain?

I'm sure you are just tossing that out there ........... sort of.

They are spray oiled, and it won't matter if they are sitting at a 30 degree angle as long as there's adequate oil to supply to the pump - and the oil pressure stays at regulated pressure. There will be 30 psi throughout, for example.

They are pressure oiled. Sprayed by the exhaust lash adjusters.
Having had multiple Grand Cherokees - and 3 JTs so far, the engine really sits fairly similarly, if there's a difference, it's not much.

 

[FrankFrqnkFrank]

In any case, my other SIL and her husband have a ProMaster #vanlyfe ('21, I think) with the 3.6l. I'll be curious if that develops any issues.

We have a 2021 Promaster too. Common wisdom is that it has the AH replacement needle valves/bearings and a 2021 should not develop the tick.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

We have a 2021 Promaster too. Common wisdom is that it has the AH replacement needle valves/bearings and a 2021 should not develop the tick.

Beat me to it - that came out in about 2019 so all subsequent models should be ok.

 

[MPMB]

I'm sure you are just tossing that out there ........... sort of.

They are spray oiled, and it won't matter if they are sitting at a 30 degree angle as long as there's adequate oil to supply to the pump - and the oil pressure stays at regulated pressure. There will be 30 psi throughout, for example.

They are pressure oiled. Sprayed by the exhaust lash adjusters.
Having had multiple Grand Cherokees - and 3 JTs so far, the engine really sits fairly similarly, if there's a difference, it's not much.

I'm sure it's unlikely. But...

In other Jeep work, the adjustable front track bar I installed helped greatly reduce the 51-56mph shake (not death wobble) by a noticeable amount. Now it's just a mild vibration.

I noticed some "sliding" wheel weights and some missing ones. I gotta take it to the local tire shop and have them road force balance the wheels and do an alignment. That should take care of that. Then its GTG for about 20,000 miles.

 

[JTGuy]

There is no way to prevent the cam failure. If I get it I will just deal with it as we all will. All I can hope for is a new cam in short time. My JT has been trouble free so far really. Fun and fairly easy to mod. Purchased new 3-22 so a '26 of something is in the future.

 

[yoda13]

I wish we knew why some motors go for 250K without needing cams, and some have it happen during warranty. I wonder if the pro master and gladiator have it in higher frequencies, could it be due to that fact that they are worked harder? I am thinking I’d towing, loaded with tools, beds full, etc?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I wonder if the pro master and gladiator have it in higher frequencies, could it be due to that fact that they are worked harder?

Be careful - the Promaster did not receive the upgrade engine until the 22 model year. So any PM failure before the new follower design in 2019 can't be lumped with these.
In short, only 2022 and later Promaster engines can be included with any of this.

Also note - many of the failures aren't JTs worked hard. Some are simply driven, maybe light towing. But even that shouldn't matter because the loads are on the crankshaft and rods and mains, not valves or cams.

 

[yoda13]

Be careful - the Promaster did not receive the upgrade engine until the 22 model year. So any PM failure before the new follower design in 2019 can't be lumped with these.
In short, only 2022 and later Promaster engines can be included with any of this.

Also note - many of the failures aren't JTs worked hard. Some are simply driven, maybe light towing. But even that shouldn't matter because the loads are on the crankshaft and rods and mains, not valves or cams.

Random failures, at this amount, just bother me

 

[KevinM60]

I picked up my Jeep from the dealer today.
too many crazy things going on.
After they switched out the engine and fired it up they heard a hissing sound that turned out to coming from the EGR valve. It turns out the o-ring was split and leaking so they replaced the EGR valve and seal. Looking at the picture in their file it showed damage on the flange and gasket face as if somebody had screwed it up when changing the engine.
More crazy, on the following test drive the belt tensioner pulley froze, burning up and breaking the drive belt and tearing up the tensioner pulley and idler pulley. So they replaced the tensioner, idler pulley and belt.

When I picked it up I drove around for a couple minutes and noticed the check engine light was on. I immediately drove back to the dealer to return the vehicle. When we opened the hood I noticed one of the tubes was missing from the side of the engine. The service manager said it might be part of the EGR system which was upgraded and may not be needed anymore. I’ve been looking at my engine diagrams and parts catalogs to find what this part is. So far I haven’t been able to find it so I’m going to post a pic of it here to see if anybody knows what it is

it the one on the side of the engine with the beige colored end cap on it

Needless to say, I insisted on a rental car until they figure out the mess they made of my jeep and I am now going to be very particular on the work they do with hardly any trust in their work from now on.
If I was them I would be embarrassed as hell.

 

[Hootbro]

What is that label on top of the intake?

 

[KevinM60]

What is that label on top of the intake?

You mean the 723543?
I don’t know. It looks like the part number to me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What is that label on top of the intake?

ENGINE RFID ?? Meaning reference ID?

 

[Hootbro]

You mean the 723543?
I don’t know. It looks like the part number to me.

Ok, thought it had more data on it than that. Thanks.

Sponsored