Another Gladiator build....White JTRD

[VA6489]

How did you attach the ACCUAIR ride sensors to the Clayton control arms? Did you make mounts for them? What did you have to do for the calibration after installing the Clayton control arms? Very curious as I have the lift with the piggyback shocks installed on my Mojave. I have also noticed some vagueness in the steering.

I fab'd up a attachment point on the Clayton arms. simple task. Just make sure you have enough travel and do not over center the sensor arm. Then go thru normal cal. Set the ride height at full up with the tank full and compressor off. Push Program button and ride height 1 at the same time to start the process and let it go thru the cycle.

Mounts were easy to make just a 10 guage piece of sheet metal. In my case I welded it to the arm. Make sure to drill the hole before welding (yes I did that) and adjust at full droop. The adjustment should not allow the sensor arm to align with the link to the suspension. Adjust the link so that it will not allow it to "flip"

Alternate is you can carefully cut the ACCUAIR mounting points off the control arms and reweld.

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[VA6489]

Side note, you can use any good quality heady duty control arms I would suggest ones link Clayton or similar with johnny joint like ends. After this run west I will rebuild the Clayton arm to install two ballistic or Johnny joints to remove the flex in the rubber bush.

Also Install a Teraflex forged Track bar F&R. this will also tighten up suspension feel considerably.

I would round out the upgrades Dynatrac Ball Joints or Ball Joint Deletes The OEM ball joints use a form of plastic for the wear material that adds to the Vague steering input.

 

[VA6489]

Little update on the build.
The West coast trip is in the books. 5770 miles average fuel mileage 20.7. This was a mix of highway and trail driving.

What went well:
- The truck ran great with the RTT rack and about 500# of stuff. Fuel mileage was better than expected. It was a semi comfortable ride.
What did not measure up:
- ACCUAIR suspension. Under no to light load the suspension worked OK. Had to replace their control arm due to weak bushings and flexing of the control arms. Attached tb to a Set of Clayton short arms to run the ride height sensors. Where this comes off the rail is under full load. The rear suspension spring rate underperforms allowing a kind of pogo stick bounce on most undulation of the road. More than a few times the bump stops were engaged. This also exaggerated the tendency to wander all over the road. I realize New Jeep do require a level of attention to drive but this flat wore me out. I gave the wheel to the wife for a couple hours and it looked like she was drunk wandering from line to line chasing the steering. I have 7 degrees of caster cranked in. tracking should not be an issue. The front end was aligned and tires balance right before the run. A Teraflex track bar was installed to help tighten the front end up. Still the constant rear bounce I feel contributed to the front end wander on the highway. To really fix this Shock with much stiffer valving on compression are required and HD sway bars front and rear. Something like ORO, Swayloc dual rates would be great. The rear shocks faded after a few hours of constant highway driving. a Larger diameter shock 2-2.5 would have helped and a flutter stack or straight up stiffer valving on compression would help control the bounce.

On trail this system was a failure. With the weight the rig just wallowed around producing no predictable reaction to the terrain, every bump was an adventure. I ran this no load on a local trail before the run and did not experience any of these symptoms. The only conclusion I can come up with is this system is not designed to have any payload weight in the bed to function acceptably. Since I use this rig to overland and as a daily driver my options are 1) put another $3000-$4000 into the suspension to try to fix these issue bringing the total cost above $10K or to scrap it and go with a more tried and true system of multi rate coil springs and good quality shocks.
The $3-$4K approach is a band aid and might fix some for the issues but the rear Air Springs will need to be revamped so there is no sure fix with this approach. Contacting the company yielded a standard answer with little help to try to resolve this issue. It is almost like the kids running this company are not willing to receive customer feedback if it is negative. Very disappointing. I have used their control system in the past on HD pickups with great success, this full system design need a great deal of work to get right.

Springs and quality shocks will run about $3k. The results are a known quantity. If anyone is interested in this Air suspension for their rig that doesn't intend to load the bed let me know Be happy to depart with it for half price.

Cheers

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Little update on the build.
The West coast trip is in the books. 5770 miles average fuel mileage 20.7. This was a mix of highway and trail driving.

What went well:
- The truck ran great with the RTT rack and about 500# of stuff. Fuel mileage was better than expected. It was a semi comfortable ride.
What did not measure up:
- ACCUAIR suspension. Under no to light load the suspension worked OK. Had to replace their control arm due to weak bushings and flexing of the control arms. Attached tb to a Set of Clayton short arms to run the ride height sensors. Where this comes off the rail is under full load. The rear suspension spring rate underperforms allowing a kind of pogo stick bounce on most undulation of the road. More than a few times the bump stops were engaged. This also exaggerated the tendency to wander all over the road. I realize New Jeep do require a level of attention to drive but this flat wore me out. I gave the wheel to the wife for a couple hours and it looked like she was drunk wandering from line to line chasing the steering. I have 7 degrees of caster cranked in. tracking should not be an issue. The front end was aligned and tires balance right before the run. A Teraflex track bar was installed to help tighten the front end up. Still the constant rear bounce I feel contributed to the front end wander on the highway. To really fix this Shock with much stiffer valving on compression are required and HD sway bars front and rear. Something like ORO, Swayloc dual rates would be great. The rear shocks faded after a few hours of constant highway driving. a Larger diameter shock 2-2.5 would have helped and a flutter stack or straight up stiffer valving on compression would help control the bounce.

On trail this system was a failure. With the weight the rig just wallowed around producing no predictable reaction to the terrain, every bump was an adventure. I ran this no load on a local trail before the run and did not experience any of these symptoms. The only conclusion I can come up with is this system is not designed to have any payload weight in the bed to function acceptably. Since I use this rig to overland and as a daily driver my options are 1) put another $3000-$4000 into the suspension to try to fix these issue bringing the total cost above $10K or to scrap it and go with a more tried and true system of multi rate coil springs and good quality shocks.
The $3-$4K approach is a band aid and might fix some for the issues but the rear Air Springs will need to be revamped so there is no sure fix with this approach. Contacting the company yielded a standard answer with little help to try to resolve this issue. It is almost like the kids running this company are not willing to receive customer feedback if it is negative. Very disappointing. I have used their control system in the past on HD pickups with great success, this full system design need a great deal of work to get right.

Springs and quality shocks will run about $3k. The results are a known quantity. If anyone is interested in this Air suspension for their rig that doesn't intend to load the bed let me know Be happy to depart with it for half price.

Cheers

This is a bummer to hear. I currently have AEV HD springs but I'm about 2 inches too tall for my garage door, but I need the weight capacity of the springs, but I also don't run heavy all the time so I'm over-sprung on the daily. I was hoping I could run the AccuAir rear only air suspension and solve all my problems... auto-level regardless the weight, be able air down the rear and fit into the garage, and as an added bonus I could air down at camp and the Mrs could reach over the tailgate lol

I have a buddy who has the 4 corner kit and he loves it. He is heavy, quite heavy actually, does some pretty tough wheelin' and stated it drives and handles like a dream. Not sure what else he has for suspension components, but I wonder why his experience is opposite of yours?

 

[VA6489]

Good question. I have been on Coil over , coil spring and leaf springs all my off road life. For the a full on Load 600#, I do not have enough sway bar, or shock to control the vehicle. The Kit control arms the bushing material was too soft and added to the poor on road performance loaded. Switched our the control arm and track bars to Clayton control arms and teraflex forged track bars and things began to improve greatly. To keep going down this road , shocks need to be up graded to something tunable with much better valving. Sway bar for a full load needs to be robust.

Under load the rear just pogo'd with every bump hitting bump stops occasionally. I do not call 600# too heavy a load, but maybe for this set up it is.

Flip side Empty performance is acceptable with the mods I have done ( control arms and Track bars). If you are interested you can have the complete system for 1/2 what I paid for it. can demonstrate it working as it is still on the Jeep. PM if you would liek to discuss.

 

[VA6489]

Been absent from the build for a minute. Accuair is gone... junk. back on Clayton Springs for now.

Awaiting Artec Long arm front and triangulated rear suspension.

order a set of King 2.5x14s to replace the Clayton Springs. Need to French in the rear mounts and going to use a set of Rock Krawler front mounts.

Next on the list this spring is a relocating the Oil Cooler... I have a few options in the works.

Stay tuned for updates.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

Found it!!! I’ll be watching. I’ve been looking into coilovers so if you have some cool picture content there I’d appreciate it. Looking into Carbon coilovers with Clayton long arms in the far future.

 

[VA6489]

Found it!!! I’ll be watching. I’ve been looking into coilovers so if you have some cool picture content there I’d appreciate it. Looking into Carbon coilovers with Clayton long arms in the far future.

So, you want coilovers..... what are you look for out of a coil over suspension? For me it is ride quality. If I was happy with the dump truck like ride I would stay with the OEM coils or any OEM of the aftermarket replacement coils. Simple and easy to install will work over a variety of load range. Best part is they are cheap.

I am a performance minded driver and the quality of ride in my rig is not where I want it to be. Part of the fix is a long arm suspension to fix Geometry giving me better drivability. Next is ride quality. I realize this is a subjective vs quantitative measure But I also know Jeeps do not have to ride like high speed farm tractors. I am also looking for travel more Droop than Bump.

Take a look at:
https://www.filthymotorsports.com/off_road_shocks_s/45.htm
And give Ben a call and chat about what you want in a coil over. He is a excellent source for information as shocks ARE is business. best part is he is not going to sell you on a particular brand but will steer you away from some problematic ones and might even talk you out of the Coilover route all together.

Why am I going this route/ I use my rig as a daily driver and play toy. I slog to work in NoVA across a variety of roads and pot holes. I want to improve this experience by having a more compliant suspension at also provides a level of performance to my driving style and alternate ego, rocklanding.

This is my 4th build using coilover and second Jeep build. the best shocks on the market are ADS, Fox and King. These are true racing shocks and as such are noisy during break in.

Buying shocks to get the best performance to match you style you have to custom valve them. To valve them correctly you need the weight of the rig, ideally corner weights. Variable valving, so high speed oscillations are softer than slow speed oscillations or just a straight valve stack? Next single dual or triple rate springs? For my hot rods I used single rate springs. For the Jeeps I has used dual rate springs. The spring rates are important so they carry the rig at the ride height you want.

Rig weight. are you a Overlander where you have a RTT and full kit in the back? Or are you a drive empty plus a cooler on the weekend trails rides? Do you switch back and forth? All of this get factored into the spring rates.

2.0, 2.5 3.0 bodied shocks? which is right for you? Compression adjusters? Remote or piggyback reservoirs or no reservoirs at all? All good questions.

If you just buy a set "of the shelf" you have no idea what you are getting in the way of valving and spring rates. An improperly set up coilover will leave you very dissatisfied in performance and light $5000-$6000.00 plus another $1000-$1500 in mounting bracketry.

Price, you generally get what you pay for. I enjoy a good deal as well as the next guy. I also have gone down the route of building with cheap/cheapest components..... only to tear them out and built it back right.

You could go with a "kit" like EVO manufacturing, Rock Krawler, and others that have done the engineering for you and you simply bolt it on or pay to have it bolted on. Those kits could set you back $10-$15K plus installation.

Cut cost where you can do not compromise on performance. Buy once cry once is real and the end result is more cost effective.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

I fully agree with you on that. I want to build the suspension out once and be done. I Frankensteined my last suspension and I liked it. Savvy springs, Rockmen control arms, 5100 in the front and Fox in the rear but that was a totally different vehicle. That’s a big draw of being on a forum like this. Research through others pain and experiences with different components. As I said, I’m a year or so out from a suspension makeover so I have time to do thorough research and let some other stuff come to market.

 

[VA6489]

Artec Industries...... I have no idea what is going on with this once great company, but I have been waiting 2 months for one of their suspension kits. Have some shipping info but it is only a partial shipment. They are waiting on 2 link arms to be delivered from their supplier (no ETA) ..... 2 months and they are just piecing this together one component at a time.......

Good News Shocks are on order 2.5 custom valved King coilovers. Black bodied with blue components. that should look right nice under Rattle Wagon.

 

[fourfa]

If you go with rear coilovers be sure to beef up the frame at the shock mount points. Stock, the heaviest loads are taken by the spring seats. We’ve seen several frames that buckled at the shock mount point. Usually it’s been badly overloaded, or jumped, or both - but I’ve seen one video of a Baja runner style build with rear coilovers that buckled there. And make 1000000% sure that something other than the shock length is limiting compression.

 

[fourfa]

https://shiftautoandoffroad.com/products/shift-reinforcement-bridge this is for the spring seat - something like this for the shock mount

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

[QUOTE="VA6489, post: 1670097, member:

Good News Shocks are on order 2.5 custom valved King coilovers. Black bodied with blue components. that should look right nice under Rattle Wagon.
[/QUOTE]

Wait….. King has black shock bodies available for their coilovers?!

 

[VA6489]

If you go with rear coilovers be sure to beef up the frame at the shock mount points. Stock, the heaviest loads are taken by the spring seats. We’ve seen several frames that buckled at the shock mount point. Usually it’s been badly overloaded, or jumped, or both - but I’ve seen one video of a Baja runner style build with rear coilovers that buckled there. And make 1000000% sure that something other than the shock length is limiting compression.

the intent is to move the rear frame side shock mount aft and french in a tower. As to loading not intending to have more than 500# in the bed and flyingthe rig..... LOL..... diesels don't fly.

 

[VA6489]

[QUOTE="VA6489, post: 1670097, member:

Good News Shocks are on order 2.5 custom valved King coilovers. Black bodied with blue components. that should look right nice under Rattle Wagon.

Wait….. King has black shock bodies available for their coilovers?!
[/QUOTE]


Check out

https://www.filthymotorsports.com/2_5_King_Coilover_Shocks_p/king-pr25co.htm

Call Ben and you can get a variety of colors.

Cheers

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