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Anyone else use this ATF in their Gladiator 8-speed?

Rusty PW

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Hootbro

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Did I scramble your mind with that?
Somewhat. I vaguely recalled the term but had to look it up again when you said it for clarity. I think I first heard it on some documentary about Rockefeller and Standard oil and how supposedly to make crude oil into a commodities market that he created the myth of scarcity and that is where the so called "Oil came from Dinosaurs" moniker came from.
 

Rusty PW

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Somewhat. I vaguely recalled the term but had to look it up again when you said it for clarity. I think I first heard it on some documentary about Rockefeller and Standard oil about how supposedly to make crude oil into a commodities market that he supposedly created the myth of scarcity and that is where the so called "Oil came from Dinosaurs" moniker came from.
Marketing ploy that caught on and grew. Say a lie enough times. Most will believe it's true.
 

Stan H

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Stan H

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Marketing ploy that caught on and grew. Say a lie enough times. Most will believe it's true.
Your not wrong there let me tell you .
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Any abiogenic oil that meet current API and MS-6395 spec's will do.
So GTL oils? Like Pennzoil synthetic?
Or anything created by the forces of the earth?
 

ShadowsPapa

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Somewhat. I vaguely recalled the term but had to look it up again when you said it for clarity. I think I first heard it on some documentary about Rockefeller and Standard oil and how supposedly to make crude oil into a commodities market that he created the myth of scarcity and that is where the so called "Oil came from Dinosaurs" moniker came from.
Think of how many dinos would have to have lived and died in very specific areas to furnish all the oil that's been extracted to date. You have to discount those that died and rotted away or were eaten by other things like flies and such.
 

Maximus Gladius

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Think of how many dinos would have to have lived and died in very specific areas to furnish all the oil that's been extracted to date. You have to discount those that died and rotted away or were eaten by other things like flies and such.
..and then there’s all those oil pockets that don’t have any detectable dinosaur bones that are multiple miles below the surface where the only thing there that ever grew was rocks. I think I recall someone saying that it was all made and put there and he said it was good and he left it to us to pull it out and make it better so we here can pull it out and discuss it.
 

ShadowsPapa

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..and then there’s all those oil pockets that don’t have any detectable dinosaur bones that are multiple miles below the surface where the only thing there that ever grew was rocks. I think I recall someone saying that it was all made and put there and he said it was good and he left it to us to pull it out and make it better so we here can pull it out and discuss it.

If the theory was true
- it would be from plants anyway, not reptiles. Plants grab and store tons of carbon - and what is oil?
Half of a plant is carbon (as far as dry chemicals)
Another large part is hydrogen - hmm, hydro-carbons.

I believe roughly 80% of crude is carbon, and the rest hydrogen, etc.

So it makes a whole lot more sense to have very very dense rain forests under extreme pressures turn to oil than walking creatures as most living creatures are under 20% carbon.

When I was a kid - I always laughed about the dinosaur theory - knowing earth sciences, and such - I always figured it was the dense jungle and rain forests that decomposed under extreme pressures and the carbon and hydrogen formed oils.

It was interesting a few years ago when we had a lot of rain (before our 4 year drought) and extreme humidity for weeks on end, I had sprayed weeds around the property. Normally, they turn brown, shrink and dry up and are gone in a few days or weeks.
That year they got mushy and turned really dark green almost black. I was curious and picked up a couple -really slimy. They shrank down to really dark slimy wet masses after a few weeks.
Made me wonder about such things in a dense jungle.

In any case, I never bought into the dinosaur thing - you'd need piles and piles of them in concentrated locations, piled maybe a mile deep to get any oil out of them because there's so very little carbon to them.
 

Stan H

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If the theory was true - it would be from plants anyway, not reptiles. Plants grab and store tons of carbon - and what is oil?
Half of a plant is carbon (as far as dry chemicals)
Another large part is hydrogen - hmm, hydro-carbons.

I believe roughly 80% of crude is carbon, and the rest hydrogen, etc.

So it makes a whole lot more sense to have very very dense rain forests under extreme pressures turn to oil than walking creatures as most living creatures are under 20% carbon.

When I was a kid - I always laughed about the dinosaur theory - knowing earth sciences, and such - I always figured it was the dense jungle and rain forests that decomposed under extreme pressures and the carbon and hydrogen formed oils.

It was interesting a few years ago when we had a lot of rain (before our 4 year drought) and extreme humidity for weeks on end, I had sprayed weeds around the property. Normally, they turn brown, shrink and dry up and are gone in a few days or weeks.
That year they got mushy and turned really dark green almost black. I was curious and picked up a couple -really slimy. They shrank down to really dark slimy wet masses after a few weeks.
Made me wonder about such things in a dense jungle.

In any case, I never bought into the dinosaur thing - you'd need piles and piles of them in concentrated locations, piled maybe a mile deep to get any oil out of them because there's so very little carbon to them.
It only stands to reason if dinosaurs are unearthed nearly at the surface and old conventional wells are 5,000 feet down and marcellus is 10,000 and Uttica is 15,000 feet down it isn't from dinosaurs its many pressed types of vegetation. And dead bugs and dead trees etc.. sure there are probably some animal matter there but as you say it is ...Carbon.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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It only stands to reason if dinosaurs are unearthed nearly at the surface and old conventional wells are 5,000 feet down and marcellus is 10,000 and Uttica is 15,000 feet down it isn't from dinosaurs its many pressed types of vegetation. And dead bugs and dead trees etc.. sure there are probably some animal matter there but as you say it is ...Carbon.
Vegetation was around about 150 million years before any "animal" life (insects and so on).
So plants were here probably 200 million years before larger animal life - so plant remains would be buried a heck of a lot deeper.

Plants ruled the planet about 250 million years before dinosaurs - so if it was created by ex-life, it was from plants, no way from big reptiles.
 
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Any abiogenic oil that meet current API and MS-6395 spec's will do.
Which formulation are you running—are you talking PAO-based (polyalphaolefin) Group IV synthetics, or maybe GTL-derived (gas-to-liquid) base stocks like Shell’s Fischer-Tropsch process oils? Just curious—because unless you’re blending your own with metallocene catalysis and custom additive packages, you’re probably just picking up off-the-shelf Group III hydrocracked stuff like the rest of us.
 

g2020

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If you change the following percentage of ATF each time, here is a PERCENTAGE chart to see how many changes will be required to fully change the ATF:
35% of the total drained each time = 7 changes to achieve 95% new ATF
40% of the total drained each time = 6 changes to achieve 95% new ATF
45% of the total drained each time = 5 changes to achieve 95% new ATF
50% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 94% new ATF
55% of the total drained each time = 4 changes to achieve 96% new ATF

Who here wants to buy fluid for 4 changes.

It's bad enough to fight Jeep - but then bring in another company who says "it wasn't us, ours meets or beats specs" - or even if it's not under warranty - you still have to go through the process. You can't simply say "I used your fluid and now my transmission is dead" -
I'm reviving this thread to shed some more light on the sequential pan drop replacement rate and the minimum cost of the ATF.

Disclaimer: This post is for those who are qualified to do multiple pan drops. Unless you know what you're doing, there are at least some who will say "don't try this at home". After all, the automatic transmission is the most complex and expensive moving part on a stock Gladiator. With that said, there are owners out there who do multiple pan drops. I am simply providing the (repeatable) math to help minimize the maintenance cost.

Three (3) sequential pan drops will result in 96.9% replacement of ATF in the automatic transmission.

= 1-(1-6.5/9.5)^3
Where: Pan drop refill capacity = 6.5 quarts, dry fill capacity = 9.5 quarts, and 3 sequential pan drops are completed; amounts can vary
- Drop this calc into Excel or Google search; some old calculators can do it too
- A fourth pan drop improves the replacement mix to 99.0%, and so on (not recommended / very small incremental benefit)


Requirement: Drive vehicle between 500 and 1,000 miles, after each pan drop, before doing next pan drop

Total ATF required: 6.5 quarts X 3 pan drops = 19.5 quarts or 18.5 liters

ZF-approved ATF (exact equivalent):

ZF LifeguardFluid 9 @ $20.32 ea X 19 liters = $386.08 + tax (free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) is an exact equivalent to ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001); also see item #1 (ZF List of Lubricants TE-ML 11) in this post

Claimed equivalent (not ZF-approved):
Valvoline MAXLIFE MV @ $6.88 ea X 20 quarts = $137.60 + tax (probably free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: Valvoline MAXLIFE MV (VV3246) is not a ZF-approved equivalent

For info on the transmission oil pan, filter, and gasket, see "Technical Considerations" in this post.

I recommend using MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) or ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001), but this could change as my vehicle ages.
 
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WILDHOBO

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I'm reviving this thread to shed some more light on the sequential pan drop replacement rate and the minimum cost of the ATF.

Three (3) sequential pan drops will result in 96.9% replacement of ATF in the automatic transmission.

= 1-(1-6.5/9.5)^3
Where: Pan drop refill capacity = 6.5 quarts, dry fill capacity = 9.5 quarts, and 3 sequential pan drops are completed; amounts can vary
- Drop this calc into Excel or Google search; some old calculators can do it too
- A fourth pan drop improves the replacement mix to 99.0%, and so on (not recommended / very small incremental benefit)


Requirement: Drive vehicle between 500 and 1,000 miles, after each pan drop, before doing next pan drop

Total ATF required: 6.5 quarts X 3 pan drops = 19.5 quarts or 18.5 liters

ZF-approved ATF (exact equivalent):

ZF LifeguardFluid 9 @ $20.32 ea X 19 liters = $386.08 + tax (free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) is an exact equivalent to ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001); also see item #1 (ZF List of Lubricants TE-ML 11) in this post

Claimed equivalent (not ZF-approved):
Valvoline MAXLIFE MV @ $6.88 ea X 20 quarts = $137.60 + tax (probably free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: Valvoline MAXLIFE MV (VV3246) is not a ZF-approved equivalent

For info on the transmission oil pan, filter, and gasket, see "Technical Considerations" in this post.

I recommend using MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) or ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001), but this could change as my vehicle ages.
If you want to risk your transmission for a $248.48, go ahead. Along with a requirement to drop your pan three times, putting more wear on the gasket, and still having mixed fluids with unknown chemistry compatibility. Makes zero sense. Your vehicle, so what you want, but don’t recommend this stuff to others that might take your advice by mistake.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I'm reviving this thread to shed some more light on the sequential pan drop replacement rate and the minimum cost of the ATF.

Three (3) sequential pan drops will result in 96.9% replacement of ATF in the automatic transmission.

= 1-(1-6.5/9.5)^3
Where: Pan drop refill capacity = 6.5 quarts, dry fill capacity = 9.5 quarts, and 3 sequential pan drops are completed; amounts can vary
- Drop this calc into Excel or Google search; some old calculators can do it too
- A fourth pan drop improves the replacement mix to 99.0%, and so on (not recommended / very small incremental benefit)


Requirement: Drive vehicle between 500 and 1,000 miles, after each pan drop, before doing next pan drop

Total ATF required: 6.5 quarts X 3 pan drops = 19.5 quarts or 18.5 liters

ZF-approved ATF (exact equivalent):

ZF LifeguardFluid 9 @ $20.32 ea X 19 liters = $386.08 + tax (free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) is an exact equivalent to ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001); also see item #1 (ZF List of Lubricants TE-ML 11) in this post

Claimed equivalent (not ZF-approved):
Valvoline MAXLIFE MV @ $6.88 ea X 20 quarts = $137.60 + tax (probably free shipping), on August 31, 2025
Note: Valvoline MAXLIFE MV (VV3246) is not a ZF-approved equivalent

For info on the transmission oil pan, filter, and gasket, see "Technical Considerations" in this post.

I recommend using MOPAR 8 & 9 Speed ATF (68218925AB) or ZF LifeguardFluid 9 (AA01.500.001), but this could change as my vehicle ages.
I seem to recognize some of the "number of changes to get to xx%" from a blog run by another guy. He explains it all in detail, based on the capacity, amount of fluid changed, the numbers of changes to get there and so on.

In all of the decades of ATF rebuild/overhaul/service, I've never been concerned about hitting any more than what one change would do unless there were signs beyond normal fluid "wear".
The life of the fluid and change intervals are based on the partial change of fluid, not a full swap of all possible fluid. But due to the dilution of the fluid as you go, I cut subsequent change intervals down. If I'd go 80,000 for example on the first fill from the factory, I'd probably go to 120,000 for the next, just for example. All numbers based on the USE of the vehicle.

You can buy enough for a change for $100 (7 quarts for $100 on Amazon)
So you could do 3 changes for $300 and have fluid left (21 quarts for 300)
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