Anyone with over 100k miles on their 3.6 yet ?

[Fastwake]

One engineer designed Gen 1?

The current 3.6 is very different and was heavily modified in ways that end up making it better for ESS.
The oil pump will cause less strain during ESS starts because it's dual-stage, the timing chains are lighter and smoother, so there's less inertia to overcome, the VVL will lesson the stresses of starting as the compression will be lower during warm starts, there's a lot about this version will aid warm starts.

In their testing - Did they actually keep cycling the current version of the 3.6 (2016 and later) using the ESS system, or was it a series of cold starts - or non-ESS starts? The PCM handles ESS starts differently than when you crank it to start it.

Oil is going to be one of the biggest factors. It's the oil's film strength that handles the stresses of starting and ESS starts are not cold starts. They are very very different because the PCM knows exactly where each piston has stopped- it modifies injector signals and ignition for fast low stress starts. Listen closely to an ESS start vs a cold start.
The oil film is only minutes old and if a good oil is used, it will handle it. There will be no metal-to-metal contact, no real chance for wear because the oil film will keep the parts apart.

Hybrids as well as others have used similar systems for years and that's why the industry here was pretty well ready.

The new bearing designs have been working for others for a lot of miles, and years - others have logged a lot of miles, and the instances of bearing failures on the 3.6 is really pretty small, isn't it?
How many here have seen a lot of bearing failures in the Penastar?

I would expect that since these engines have been out for over 6 years, and if the average person drove 12,000 miles a year, you'd have hundreds of thousands of the 3.6 over 70,000 miles, you'd be seeing bearing issues by now.
Interesting also that Chrysler used ESS in 2015 models - before the 3.6 was even updated with new

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[ShadowsPapa]

You were talking about dynamic compression - I am referring to static compression (i.e. all valves closed). Going with a cam swap on a turbo d16 is NOT going to help prevent detonation for example. What you are describing is compression numbers related to engine timing. Also wet and dry tests will give you different numbers. But the static compression number will always remain the same as thats relative to the piston to deck/chamber.

Here's a thought, if I may - and this is a "hmmm, maybe this is what happened" thing -
I used the generic word "compression" and didn't add the word "pressure" nor did I explain myself very well in the initial post. I took shortcuts and didn't add "pressure" to the term.
The advertised compression ratio is indeed the static volume of the chamber at BDC as if all closed up compared to the volume at TDC. (you worded it differently, perhaps better, but yeah, that's the ratio)

When running it gets nasty complex because many assume that an engine is only working with those numbers when in fact, a good design can be pumping at 120% efficiency. (A number I recall from Honda years ago) You can already have more than atmospheric pressure in the chamber before the valves even fully close.

But I was referring only to the pressures and operations at cranking speeds, and closing the intake valve at well past BDC after the piston has come up.

Anyway, I think we're not that far apart........... if I'd use better words.

 

[jwolfejt]

Here's a thought, if I may - and this is a "hmmm, maybe this is what happened" thing -
I used the generic word "compression" and didn't add the word "pressure" nor did I explain myself very well in the initial post. I took shortcuts and didn't add "pressure" to the term.
The advertised compression ratio is indeed the static volume of the chamber at BDC as if all closed up compared to the volume at TDC. (you worded it differently, perhaps better, but yeah, that's the ratio)

When running it gets nasty complex because many assume that an engine is only working with those numbers when in fact, a good design can be pumping at 120% efficiency. (A number I recall from Honda years ago) You can already have more than atmospheric pressure in the chamber before the valves even fully close.

But I was referring only to the pressures and operations at cranking speeds, and closing the intake valve at well past BDC after the piston has come up.

Anyway, I think we're not that far apart........... if I'd use better words.

Nope I understand you completely. It's true that different cam profile(s) will relieve pressure - many tests have proven that the right cam profile would help prevent/reduce head lift. No disputes from me .

 

[jwolfejt]

One engineer designed Gen 1?

The current 3.6 is very different and was heavily modified in ways that end up making it better for ESS.
The oil pump will cause less strain during ESS starts because it's dual-stage, the timing chains are lighter and smoother, so there's less inertia to overcome, the VVL will lesson the stresses of starting as the compression will be lower during warm starts, there's a lot about this version will aid warm starts.

In their testing - Did they actually keep cycling the current version of the 3.6 (2016 and later) using the ESS system, or was it a series of cold starts - or non-ESS starts? The PCM handles ESS starts differently than when you crank it to start it.

Oil is going to be one of the biggest factors. It's the oil's film strength that handles the stresses of starting and ESS starts are not cold starts. They are very very different because the PCM knows exactly where each piston has stopped- it modifies injector signals and ignition for fast low stress starts. Listen closely to an ESS start vs a cold start.
The oil film is only minutes old and if a good oil is used, it will handle it. There will be no metal-to-metal contact, no real chance for wear because the oil film will keep the parts apart.

Hybrids as well as others have used similar systems for years and that's why the industry here was pretty well ready.

The new bearing designs have been working for others for a lot of miles, and years - others have logged a lot of miles, and the instances of bearing failures on the 3.6 is really pretty small, isn't it?
How many here have seen a lot of bearing failures in the Penastar?

I would expect that since these engines have been out for over 6 years, and if the average person drove 12,000 miles a year, you'd have hundreds of thousands of the 3.6 over 70,000 miles, you'd be seeing bearing issues by now.
Interesting also that Chrysler used ESS in 2015 models - before the 3.6 was even updated with new

Aren't the shortblock parts 100% the same ? Same goes with cam phasers from my understanding - the only differences i was able to notate (according to part numbers) was the intake cam, rocker/follower and lifters/lash adjusters. As well as the EGR cooler setup other than that all the part #'s seem to be the same across the board. So if the oil pump, bearings, crank, phasers etc are all the same - then what constituted the change for oil spec from 5w30 initially to 0w20 (other than maybe .1 mpg better fuel economy I just don't see it).

 

[DanW]

One of the reasons for 0w20 is the ESS. It gets moving more quickly on the starts, reducing (very, very slightly) the time of metal/metal contact.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Aren't the shortblock parts 100% the same ? Same goes with cam phasers from my understanding - the only differences i was able to notate (according to part numbers) was the intake cam, rocker/follower and lifters/lash adjusters. As well as the EGR cooler setup other than that all the part #'s seem to be the same across the board. So if the oil pump, bearings, crank, phasers etc are all the same - then what constituted the change for oil spec from 5w30 initially to 0w20 (other than maybe .1 mpg better fuel economy I just don't see it).

No, they aren't all the same - a lot of changes to block, head, crankshaft, phasers and other parts.
Oil pump is dual-stage for 2016 and later.
This is from a 2015 document about the 3.6 -
A higher volume, two-stage oil pump is
mounted to the lower front of the block
and driven by a separate chain. As before,
the new pump is electronically controlled
for two stages of operation. The current
and new pumps are not interchangeable

Crankshaft is different starting with 2016 - lighter, with smaller and more narrow main and rod journals.

Pistons are different, low tension rings, full floating carbon coated pin (and other small details) for 2016 and later.
Phasers are very different for the intake side - torque-driven, not oil driven, and allow 20° more timing change - 70° instead of the prior 50°
The exhaust and intake no longer interchange. Before you could use the intake and exhaust phasers interchangeably. Not with these.
Multiple other changes..............

This generation was phased into the Chrysler vehicles - I believe the Grand Cherokee was the first to get it in 2016, then others followed.

reducing (very, very slightly) the time of metal/metal contact.

If you use a good oil, there isn't metal-to-metal contact. That's the point of a good oil film.
That's the point of testing oils ability to handle pressure. Ensure there's no direct contact.
The oil doesn't magically disappear from the parts - imagine those who let a vehicle sit for days - then do a cold start - the engine is cranked more revolutions before it starts.
Of course with these, the design also holds oil up in the oiling system due to the design of the filter and pump and other parts. These don't drain back when they are shut off.

 

[21Glad]

I am curious if anyone has reached over 100k miles yet ? Any issues you had to deal with ?

I have 76,000 on a 2020 gladiator with no issues at all

 

[Gl4dy8r]

I've got over 92k on a 21 Mojave, 2" spacer lift on 35s with an overland setup. Just got back from an 11,000 miles 25 state trip. 7 year unlimited mileage warranty through Mopar. I do a good amount of off-road travel, it's seen air a few times, whoops at over 40mph(my point is it ain't babied) It had a right rear axle replacement at 12k, rear diff replacement around 40k, some loose control arms at 75k and replaced the batteries at 82k. I ain't complaining one bit. Although, Fox recommends the shocks serviced at 50k, and my dealership said that's not covered under warranty. And it's 8 weeks to get them serviced... If I put the aftermarket 2.5 foxes they said it could mess with my warranty... So not sure what to do with that. I can't say I have noticable degradation in the shocks, but I don't have a new one to test against, either.

 

[Koolcarguy]

I am curious if anyone has reached over 100k miles yet ? Any issues you had to deal with ?

Not in a Jt but several in a Jk? Only issues we find and we didn't have them on any of ours but have seen several with motor tick at my dealerships? But i have a 12 first year of the 3.6 with 180k motor all stock only mods are lift etc not 1 issue notjing zero not even a starter ,water pump notjing just brakes a couple times thats it. Pretty reliable engine

 

[balakachai]

I am curious if anyone has reached over 100k miles yet ? Any issues you had to deal with ?

I'm at 93k on a 2020 Gladiator (I'd reckon about 63k miles on tarmac, about 28k on dirt roads of various degrees of maintenance and about 2k on "tough terrain" = American South West or VT/NH/Maine Class IV roads types). About 60k of those miles (including most of the off-road) were with a Patriot Camper trailer
Issues:
1. Camera stopped working - this was simply a loose connection inside the tailgate - happened around 91k, easy self-fix
2. 4WD service light (Parksense not working, Sway Bar Disconnect not available, etc.) keeps popping once in a while (probably about 2 times per month) - started happening post ~85k miles
3. Passenger side heated seat doesn't work (this one busted around the 30k mark; haven't got around to fixing this but it's annoying)

All else works very well, with a regular dealer maintenance schedule.

"Mods" (nothing heavy; no messing around with suspension and all that)
35" BFG AT tires, with AEV Pintler wheels (since factory rims were not recommended for this tire)
pair of BajaDesigns LP lights in the front,
dual battery,
ARB dual compressor,
a Decked drawer system,
Front Runner bed rack,
Front Runner roof rack,
Front Runner water tank

 

[jwolfejt]

I'm at 93k on a 2020 Gladiator (I'd reckon about 63k miles on tarmac, about 28k on dirt roads of various degrees of maintenance and about 2k on "tough terrain" = American South West or VT/NH/Maine Class IV roads types). About 60k of those miles (including most of the off-road) were with a Patriot Camper trailer
Issues:
1. Camera stopped working - this was simply a loose connection inside the tailgate - happened around 91k, easy self-fix
2. 4WD service light (Parksense not working, Sway Bar Disconnect not available, etc.) keeps popping once in a while (probably about 2 times per month) - started happening post ~85k miles
3. Passenger side heated seat doesn't work (this one busted around the 30k mark; haven't got around to fixing this but it's annoying)

All else works very well, with a regular dealer maintenance schedule.

"Mods" (nothing heavy; no messing around with suspension and all that)
35" BFG AT tires, with AEV Pintler wheels (since factory rims were not recommended for this tire)
pair of BajaDesigns LP lights in the front,
dual battery,
ARB dual compressor,
a Decked drawer system,
Front Runner bed rack,
Front Runner roof rack,
Front Runner water tank

Sounds like its holding up pretty well. Have you noticed any of the ticking sounds others are reporting ?

 

[balakachai]

Sounds like its holding up pretty well. Have you noticed any of the ticking sounds others are reporting ?

No noises. Just need to investigate that "Service 4WD" light that comes up once in a while. (Has me a little nervous, to be honest)

 

[Hootbro]

No noises. Just need to investigate that "Service 4WD" light that comes up once in a while. (Has me a little nervous, to be honest)

I had this once on my 2020 Gladiator and it would come on intermittently. Found my electrical connector to the FAD was not fully seated.

 

[Duffman]

My 2016 Dodge CV has the pentastar 3.6 vvt in it. I have 280,000 km on it. Only thing I have had done to it was change out the oil cooler. Otherwise just regular maintenance

 

[moto jeep]

I have a 2020 3.6 JL Wrangler. Its got 108k miles on it. The lifters and/or rockers are going out. I get one code for one of them. Its extremely noisy, and I getting metal shavings at the drain bolt. Its going in to shop soon.

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