Aux Battery Problems

[Hootbro]

That is basically what I have done. (I think) Thanks for your advice.

I am talking about full removal, aux battery and associated wiring, not just disconnecting and taping loose ends up.

Given how you have said a few things, it seems electrical is something you are not totally confident with. I think others are on track saying you may have blown a leg on your N Fuse Array and have other problems.

Edit: See you mentioned being on original batteries. That is probably somewhat of a record for a 2020 for most by now. Yeah, going back to having new fresh main and aux batteries may be better action for your case.

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[Lost1wing]

I am seeking assistance due to a problem with my battery system. I have read and reread every thread about Gladiator Aux Batteries and main batteries and the Plagued ESS. I tried to apply the techniques' from them to delete the Aux battery from my gladiator. I cannot make that happen it seems. I have been relentlessly trying for 4 days with no success. I have did the following. Please feel free to point out the errors I made to try to delete the aux battery where my truck will run more than 3 mins. I am using a 12.7 VDC main Battery and initially a 12.6 VDC aux battery. I had my fluke on min/max for the start Max 14.6 VDC/ min -6.1 VDC sometimes.

1- I removed the negative cable coming from the lower aux battery to the main battery. I wrapped it with tape and secured it with zip ties.
2- I removed the f-42 fuse from the TIPM (forgot the new name)
3- I left all cables connected to the aux battery.

I cranked the engine, she started , run normal for a couple minutes, then I got a message saying to "Safely come to a stop as the vehicle was going to shut down".
Then the windshield wipers were going very slowly, all kind of crazy iterations were going on in the displays. At one time the only way I could shut it down was to pull the battery cable off.

I tried putting a jumper on the aux leads to get it to crank and run, I always ended up with the same results.
My goal is for the time being keep the current main battery as It checked good with NAPA, and delete the aux until I decide what to do. Either install. the Genisis dual battery System or put a new Main AND Aux battery . I would reconnect the ESS as well.

It seems that the common denominator in a lot of the many threads is parasitic draw that is inherent to our trucks. That is why I am even contemplating the dual battery system. At least it would have a bigger house battery for the inherent parasitic draw as well as have a constant/dedicated charging power.

This is my line of thinking and as I said in the beginning, I am looking for answers, any suggestions, or someone pointing out the errors in my ways going about the crap. 4 days is enough.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I thank you in advance.

I just assumed that you were familiar with the N fuses (fuse array) and the IBS after reading previous posts on the subject. Doing the Aux delete as other have mentioned is fine.

I think you would be better off adding an ESS defeat tool and not take the chance of a dead battery at a red light.

Those terminals inboard of the fuse box are you N terminal posts. That is where I was asking you to get your voltage readings. N7 Alternator, N1 Aux, N2 main and N3 PCR (F42 controls the pcr). Now you can't check out the entire fuse array with it installed because you could have continuity or voltage on both sides of the fuse. You know N7 is good because you see 14+ volts. You should see 14+ volts on N1, N2 and N3. If you have moved cables around from Aux + to main +, you would still see 14+ volts on N3 with a bad N3 fuse. If the cables were not moved you would not see any voltage on N3 with a blown N3 fuse. ( aux deleted). That is why a suggestion to move the N3 terminal to N4 was made. It is another 150 amp fuse. If that had solved your problem, you know you need a fuse array. Voltage checks would tell you the same thing.

With the Aux battery neg cable tied back and f42 pulled, you should see 14+ vdc the fuse array term N3. If you do not see the 14+ vdc, the N3 fuse is blown. This is assuming no other cables have been moved.

 

[darkstar13]

Thanks for all the test. I will try and do them tomorrow. I do currently have the AUX positive connected to the MAIN positive and the F42 pulled. I definitely am having a problem understanding ESS and F42. Are these 150 amp fuses available at local auto parts stores or just the stealership,. I take it I need to reinstall the AUX battery in its original configuration to do these test?

 

[darkstar13]

I am talking about full removal, aux battery and associated wiring, not just disconnecting and taping loose ends up.

Given how you have said a few things, it seems electrical is something you are not totally confident with. I think others are on track saying you may have blown a leg on your N Fuse Array and have other problems.

Edit: See you mentioned being on original batteries. That is probably somewhat of a record for a 2020 for most by now. Yeah, going back to having new fresh main and aux batteries may be better action for your case.

You are right about my limited electrical capabilities. I do not understand what the difference is between what I have done now (ie remove the AUX battery from the vehicle, totally isolate the negative cable at both ends {AUX & MAIN}, but I do still have the AUX + connected to the MAIN +. I did not try to see if it would run with it totally isolated from the system as I was following a thread directions,. It is currently running in this manner. I hate to do it but I may tomorrow put it all back to the original factory configuration and try to do these test. Lost1wing has mentioned the "N" fuse array test as well. I am trying to decide if I can put the Genesis dual battery II install or not due to the Procharger that I have in it. Thanks for your insight.

 

[darkstar13]

I just assumed that you were familiar with the N fuses (fuse array) and the IBS after reading previous posts on the subject. Doing the Aux delete as other have mentioned is fine.

I think you would be better off adding an ESS defeat tool and not take the chance of a dead battery at a red light.

Those terminals inboard of the fuse box are you N terminal posts. That is where I was asking you to get your voltage readings. N7 Alternator, N1 Aux, N2 main and N3 PCR (F42 controls the pcr). Now you can't check out the entire fuse array with it installed because you could have continuity or voltage on both sides of the fuse. You know N7 is good because you see 14+ volts. You should see 14+ volts on N1, N2 and N3. If you have moved cables around from Aux + to main +, you would still see 14+ volts on N3 with a bad N3 fuse. If the cables were not moved you would not see any voltage on N3 with a blown N3 fuse. ( aux deleted). That is why a suggestion to move the N3 terminal to N4 was made. It is another 150 amp fuse. If that had solved your problem, you know you need a fuse array. Voltage checks would tell you the same thing.

With the Aux battery neg cable tied back and f42 pulled, you should see 14+ vdc the fuse array term N3. If you do not see the 14+ vdc, the N3 fuse is blown. This is assuming no other cables have been moved.

I am now up to speed on the "N" fuse array. I will purchase just in case. . Any recommendations for part? They seem to be pricey.

 

[Lost1wing]

I would ask the Mopar vendor here. Barry helped me out with a coupon that at least covered the shipping. I wouldn't buy one until you know you need one for sure.

 

[KQL]

By what mechanism would one damage the z array fuses while doing the neg cable+F42 pull aux delete? Seems like we’ve seen this issue when folks were tackling a full aux removal or aux replacement where you have disconnected pos cables possibly shorting to the body. But seemingly with just the neg+F42 method, what would the free neg cable have to contact to blow the N fuses? Trying to help out future neg+F42 users. Even though this is not yet confirmed for this case, if you were to put on your worst case scenario hat, with the neg cables loosened at the main, what steps would you take to protect your Z array? One trick I’ve heard is having a couple of plastic bottles on hand (think wide mouth like Gatorade) that are clean and dry obviously. Then when take a lead off the battery and have a secure grip on it, slip the metal contact into the empty bottle. Now you can temporarily put it down (as it’s insulated by the plastic walls of the bottle) while you gather your tools to more permanently wrap it for long term.

 

[Jaxmax]

I have done two aux battery deletes , my wife’s wrangler did the basic, my Mojave removed everything and also put in the auto stop start delete and a Genesis dual battery system. The Genesis dual battery system is great for my needs which require it to feed a refrigerator. YOU DO NOT NEED A GENESIS SYSTEM to delete your aux battery. You are getting correct info from people here, one thing to keep in mind is N2 on the fuse array is not fused and is the connection to main battery power coming into array, also N1 is not fused that is power coming into it to fed electronics from the N3 fused terminal that goes through the PCR that is part of the aux battery system and back in on N-1. I have done the jumper between N1 and N-3 as I feel it gets the rest of the wiring and PCR out of the system. There is a schematic drawing out there that shows how everything is wired just follow the lines from N-3 to N-1 and it will make sense. Most everyone that has a problem has pulled off incorrect cables or blown fuses. I also think your problem started with your old batteries going bad…..Jack

 

[Jaxmax]

By what mechanism would one damage the z array fuses while doing the neg cable+F42 pull aux delete? Seems like we’ve seen this issue when folks were tackling a full aux removal or aux replacement where you have disconnected pos cables possibly shorting to the body. But seemingly with just the neg+F42 method, what would the free neg cable have to contact to blow the N fuses? Trying to help out future neg+F42 users. Even though this is not yet confirmed for this case, if you were to put on your worst case scenario hat, with the neg cables loosened at the main, what steps would you take to protect your Z array? One trick I’ve heard is having a couple of plastic bottles on hand (think wide mouth like Gatorade) that are clean and dry obviously. Then when take a lead off the battery and have a secure grip on it, slip the metal contact into the empty bottle. Now you can temporarily put it down (as it’s insulated by the plastic walls of the bottle) while you gather your tools to more permanently wrap it for long term.

The people disconnecting cables off aux battery bumping the wire coming from N-3 to the negative cable will blow that fuse, also not being careful when removing the negative cable and touching the fuse array. My wife’s wrangler had a bad battery I did the remove the negative cable tape it up and pulled the fuse, aux battery is still sitting there and positive wires were not touched. I also took out the little bracket in battery tray to allow the larger battery to be put in on her jeep as it had the smaller one….Jack

 

[Lost1wing]

By what mechanism would one damage the z array fuses while doing the neg cable+F42 pull aux delete? Seems like we’ve seen this issue when folks were tackling a full aux removal or aux replacement where you have disconnected pos cables possibly shorting to the body. But seemingly with just the neg+F42 method, what would the free neg cable have to contact to blow the N fuses? Trying to help out future neg+F42 users. Even though this is not yet confirmed for this case, if you were to put on your worst case scenario hat, with the neg cables loosened at the main, what steps would you take to protect your Z array? One trick I’ve heard is having a couple of plastic bottles on hand (think wide mouth like Gatorade) that are clean and dry obviously. Then when take a lead off the battery and have a secure grip on it, slip the metal contact into the empty bottle. Now you can temporarily put it down (as it’s insulated by the plastic walls of the bottle) while you gather your tools to more permanently wrap it for long term.

I think most cases are when owners do not realize that they have two batteries . After removal of a main cable, it is assumed it is safe to tuck the loose cables out of the way.

I did not realize we had two batteries when I started playing with the electrical to install my winch. I always bag my positive terminal ends so I was sort of safe. I opened the Jeep door to get something and saw the dash light up . I knew right away what I had. Disconnecting the ground at the fender will disconnect both batteries. I recommend disconnecting this cable first and reconnecting it last. The same could be accomplished at the main negative by removing the fender ground from the top plate at the main negative.

It is very important to disconnect this ground cable. Removing the main negative from the battery post still leaves the aux battery hot. This is where some get into trouble. If they don't separate those cables while installing a new battery set, as soon as the aux battery is installed, it becomes hot. Not only does it leave you open for shorting, it is now draining your Aux while you button up the fender or put the fuse box back in. By the time the main gets installed, your aux has discharged. At that point some are right back where they started, with a discharged aux wondering how a new battery didn't fix the problem. That is just an idea and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. Most will say " "my cables didn't touch anything". But in the end they end up replacing a fuse array and wonder why it went bad.

 

[KQL]

Right, I get that working on aux replacement/physical removal can blow the z array fuses. But in this case the OP was just doing the remove aux neg+f42 removal route. And yet we’ve ended up with “check your N fuses”. I was having trouble visualizing how the z array would get blown by ONLY doing the neg+f42 approach.

 

[Lost1wing]

Right, I get that working on aux replacement/physical removal can blow the z array fuses. But in this case the OP was just doing the remove aux neg+f42 removal route. And yet we’ve ended up with “check your N fuses”. I was having trouble visualizing how the z array would get blown by ONLY doing the neg+f42 approach.

After the OP did the aux delete, he ended up with a pull over soon message. You don't get that with a proper aux delete. Something went wrong along the way. The OP may not have even noticed cables shorting.

 

[Lost1wing]

I've been troubleshooting for decades at my old workplace. I worked with a bunch of "Murphys" that would meg a wire only to find out later that they wiped out an unrelated computer. After talking to "Murphy", he would claim that he did in fact pull the said computer before sending 500 volts on a data line. Opening the computer would tell the real story. Seeing that circuit card with a burn on the same circuit that was megged told the real story. Always a denial with shoulders shrugged. It's human nature. Again, I not pointing fingers.

People come to forums after the fact, error has been made. They do a little research, attempt to fix things on their own without the proper tools or skill set. Good thing is they learn how thing work and continue learning or they learn not to fugg with things.

 

[KQL]

So partly as troubleshooting one’s own technique and part to save others the same headache in the future: what are a couple of seemingly innocuous things that one could theoretically (but plausibly) do with a disconnected pair of neg cables and an ibs that might cause these issues we’re seeing in this thread? Surely touching that neg cables to pos terminal is bad news, but hopefully the oem pos terminal cover is intact on the battery, so maybe not very likely. What other “you don’t know what you don’t know” type of actions in the neg+f42 approach might an end user want to keep in mind to avoid this situation?

 

[KQL]

I’ll add that I am not trying to be difficult, but as an owner of a 22 with oem batteries, the neg+f42 aux delete at the time of new main purchase is on my own radar in the near future. Beyond being careful with those neg cables and taking off the correct one for your model year, should a prospective performer of this aux delete be aware of any other likely sources of shorts?

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