Auxiliary Battery Jump

[ShadowsPapa]

I've found that there is a brief (instantaneous) separation of the batteries that tests the aux battery prior to both batteries participating in a cold start.

I know I found that in a tech article or PDF in my searching and research, I was sure of it, but now can't find it again. I likely THOUGHT I saved the link or file and ended up not, as I have several other PDF documents and stuff from other companies saying the same.

These starters are a fraction of the weight, have more HP and use less energy. Combining the batteries should mean less voltage drop, so the current should stay stable or not rise. Using permanent magnets means less draw for the same power as a starter decades ago.

I've noted over the years that as starters have gotten better and engines easier to start, the wires going to the starters have shrunk in gauge. Compare the wire needed to crank a 1980s 6 to these - these use much smaller wires.

I suspect it will be what's already out there, a simple jumper across N1 and N2 in the fuse box.

You guys are just no fun - do it like we did years ago. A screwdriver across the terminals.

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[Rusty PW]

I know I found that in a tech article or PDF in my searching and research, I was sure of it, but now can't find it again. I likely THOUGHT I saved the link or file and ended up not, as I have several other PDF documents and stuff from other companies saying the same.

These starters are a fraction of the weight, have more HP and use less energy. Combining the batteries should mean less voltage drop, so the current should stay stable or not rise. Using permanent magnets means less draw for the same power as a starter decades ago.

I've noted over the years that as starters have gotten better and engines easier to start, the wires going to the starters have shrunk in gauge. Compare the wire needed to crank a 1980s 6 to these - these use much smaller wires.



You guys are just no fun - do it like we did years ago. A screwdriver across the terminals.

Channel locks across the solenoid posts.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Channel locks across the solenoid posts.

Ah, you've done the pliers trick! LOL
I have a couple of screw drivers with burn marks a couple inches from the tips..........you do that when you are tapping the engine over very slowly to do valve seals and don't have your remote starter switch handy. Tip of screwdriver against battery side of solenoid, tip it over to the S terminal.

 

[obrianmcc]

Here's my ESS journey ... System worked without issue for the first 18 months before the "Battery Charging" message appeared. I removed both batteries and found that the AUX was bad. I replaced the AUX and at the same time upgraded to an Odyssey 48-720. 4 months passed and the "Battery Charging" message reappeared. I removed both batteries once again assuming it was the AUX, but actually discovered the problem this time was with the Odyssey. (Props to Odyssey on warranting the bad battery in a expedient manner) I suppose I could have or should have tested the Odyssey first, but in my defense the AUX still needed to be tested and we all have to love how Jeep buried this damn thing in the bowels of the engine compartment.

Now with almost 4 yrs of ESS disdain in both the JL and JT forums I question the need of the AUX for MY use and have concluded that for me it is more of a liability. I have recently chosen to delete the AUX battery completely and rewired based on how the Genesis system is wired by disconnecting the ground and running the AUX positive to the primary battery. This accomplished the same as the N1 to N2 jumper, but I wanted the AUX gone. The vehicle and systems have been working just fine ever since. The ESS system does have a 6 cycle limit and then the ESS light will activate, but it resets at vehicle restart. I might still purchase an ESS eliminator plug. (I don't need a Tazer) I am now more confident that I will be able to jump start using a jump pack that is always in the vehicle. Yes, a problem could still exist deeper in the system, but I feel this removes the possibility of the AUX itself making the system inoperable, not to again mention the issue of access.

If I find down the road that I need more amp/hr capacity I will look at installing a Genesis dual battery system.

 

[JTDay]

So:

1. If the AUX battery goes kaput one day, I will not be able to start my truck in the morning because PCM/etc. won't have power?

or,

1.a. Only on ESS restarts would it fail to start the truck? (possibly not an issue due to the below clarification, unless I forget to push the button)

Clarification: I disable ESS with the button every time I drive my truck.

If either of the above is true, that seems completely asinine. Sounds like totally eliminating ESS and the AUX battery might be in my future if the above is true. Who wants to spend $350 on two batteries and their own time to replace a freaking battery that should cost $200 and take 10 minutes.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So:

1. If the AUX battery goes kaput one day, I will not be able to start my truck in the morning because PCM/etc. won't have power?

or,

1.a. Only on ESS restarts would it fail to start the truck? (possibly not an issue due to the below clarification, unless I forget to push the button)

Clarification: I disable ESS with the button every time I drive my truck.

If either of the above is true, that seems completely asinine. Sounds like totally eliminating ESS and the AUX battery might be in my future if the above is true. Who wants to spend $350 on two batteries and their own time to replace a freaking battery that should cost $200 and take 10 minutes.

1. rare, but happens. It's made to look worse and more frequent because of the internet, where people gather to tell of how bad things are, how they are much better engineers, and they know more than Jeep and all that stuff. You are visiting a hospital to see how unhealthy people are, and just to prove how the majority of people have cancer.
Most won't have this problem, and even if it fails - there's nothing saying it won't start - it depends on HOW it fails.

1.a. ESS cares about the crank battery, but tracks the aux as well. It knows the state of charge and voltage of each. If it detects any issues, it either will NOT stop the engine, or will restart it before it's too late. ESS monitors a crazy list of stuff - including voltage. If it decides a whoops is coming, it will avoid a stop, or will start it before too late.

Here is a small sample of the things that have to be "just right" for ESS to shut the engine off - or if things fall outside of a range when it's ESS stopped, will cause a restart - see - if knows the battery state at each stop -

If you disable the ESS when you start it - it really makes no difference on things. It simply means it won't shut off if all of over a dozen conditions are met. It won't make any difference otherwise.


People visit a forum and decide that their own Jeep WILL have problems, is DESTINED to have problems and they must act fast or be stranded.
Forums and fakebook do not represent the majority, nor are they proof of major issues that even more than a few would see.
Tens of thousands of Gladiator owners have not had any issues.

Things like this are amplified dozens of times in forums and fakebook.

Based on posts here,
you may as well sell any Jeep you own and buy a Chevy as Jeeps are crap, especially the Gladiator as the engines always blow, they leak, and batteries die willy-nilly and leave all jeep owners stranded in the sticks with no chance of starting it and you can't get a wrecker to come get you and take you to a dealer as all wreckers take hours to arrive, no one knows how to load or tow a Jeep and all dealers suck. Jeep is crap, unload it now. Buy a Chevy.
Your roof WILL leak, the axle seal on the right WILL leak, might as well buy a cam and rockers and lash adjusters now because your engine is going to fail and dealers can't figure it out.
If you have a diesel, it's going to blow the fuel pump and you can't get any anywhere on the planet, and it will mean months of downtime. All Gladiator clutches burn to a crisp.

What you do is up to you - but I don't take action just based on seeing things in a forum. I take into account the total numbers, how many have not had issues, I do some research elsewhere.
On the other hand, the problems a few have had caused me to do research, learn more about the systems, apply what I know already as an auto-electrician for years, and I have decided to "let it ride". If I would be one of the few who have issues, I know how to deal with it and can get going again with little effort. Remember, youtube and fakebook are places to say "look at me, pay attention here" (and make money on clicks and gather likes because likes are important to life. I'm not a valid person without 100,000 fb likes!)

 

[JTDay]

Thanks for the clarification on the ESS operation. I guess it won't totally go kaput if the AUX battery goes bad. I don't intend to replace my batteries until my truck doesn't start one day, but at that point I'll probably do what @obrianmcc did and just go with one battery as I do not utilize the ESS system. 4-500 bucks to replace both stock batteries is a no-can-do for me personally.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks for the clarification on the ESS operation. I guess it won't totally go kaput if the AUX battery goes bad. I don't intend to replace my batteries until my truck doesn't start one day, but at that point I'll probably do what @obrianmcc did and just go with one battery as I do not utilize the ESS system. 4-500 bucks to replace both stock batteries is a no-can-do for me personally.

You can do things multiple ways - lots of "ideas" out there, some work better than others, it's sort of like the owners themselves. Everyone has a perspective, a need or want, and uses their vehicle in their own way.
You can either replace both (at the same time) with better batteries, or bypass the aux and run it all from one battery (fit in the largest you can - you may be able to remove a spacer and fit a larger battery if you have the smaller one as used in these without AUX switches, etc.) and in any case, you can still use ESS, or not - it's your truck.

 

[Beemer533]

When both my batteries died after less than 3 months of ownership, I pickup one of these to keep in the truck: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924V8SPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It easily started the vehicle when both batteries were completely dead (reading <6 volts with a DMM on the main battery)

Both batteries were replaced under warranty, but the Noco gives me some peace of mind.

My plan is to upgrade the main battery to the largest possible that will fit (I think an H7) and get rid of the aux battery altogether.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When both my batteries died after less than 3 months of ownership, I pickup one of these to keep in the truck: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0924V8SPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It easily started the vehicle when both batteries were completely dead (reading <6 volts with a DMM on the main battery)

Both batteries were replaced under warranty, but the Noco gives me some peace of mind.

My plan is to upgrade the main battery to the largest possible that will fit (I think an H7) and get rid of the aux battery altogether.

Yeah, people see a few who get stranded when their system failed in a certain way and they panic and think that everyone will get stranded, a battery issue always means you can't start it........ WRONG.
I jump started my wife's Jeep several times until I finally decided it was getting so bad that if she went somewhere and came out a few hours later it might not start. Even the last time - I was able to jump start it quite easily. Both of her batteries were bad.
Batteries die in different ways.
You are more proof that people jump start 'em and move on. The internet looks like all battery deaths mean you are stranded in Canada because those are the most vocal and want everyone to know of their trouble and they are doing the world a service by telling the world they will be stranded because they were.

 

[Beemer533]

Yeah, I was certainly pissed and irritated, but it wasn't the end of the world. I always carryed jumper cables around regardless, but now that those lithium jump boxes are so small and really barely self discharge, I may not bother carrying the cables anymore.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, I was certainly pissed and irritated, but it wasn't the end of the world. I always carryed jumper cables around regardless, but now that those lithium jump boxes are so small and really barely self discharge, I may not bother carrying the cables anymore.

Even the old cheapie I have (picked out from Dad's garage after he was killed) I put a battery in it (not lithium) and got it working and it will jump start things, has a light on it, a 12v outlet, etc. and if I keep it in my truck, I can keep it plugged into the 12v outlet it maintains a charge - is always ready that way.

 

[Geoarch]

I’ll be renewing my AAA membership tomorrow after reading this thread. Probably post my jumper cables in the “for sale“ section too.

Can you call AAA from 20 miles from the nearest paved road - LOL. I know there's a guy in Moab that will come get you, but in rural New Mexico (5th largest state only 2 million people) no chance. I do carry a NOOCO charger off road, but a failed ujoint? Jeeps Spicer ujoints are "lubed for life" which means life until if fails. No more zerk fittings to lube for those poor overworked dealer technicians. Sorry for the digression.

 

[Geoarch]

No matter which direction the ESS testing goes there will be an easy way to overcome a dead AUX battery. I suspect it will be what's already out there, a simple jumper across N1 and N2 in the fuse box. I might even consider a lockable high current switch like this across N1 and N2. Mount it so it sticks out the side of the fuse box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223115980332?hash=item33f2bfae2c:g:Jk8AAOSwuvVbgE54

out of stock on ebay

 

[Geoarch]

I know I found that in a tech article or PDF in my searching and research, I was sure of it, but now can't find it again. I likely THOUGHT I saved the link or file and ended up not, as I have several other PDF documents and stuff from other companies saying the same.

These starters are a fraction of the weight, have more HP and use less energy. Combining the batteries should mean less voltage drop, so the current should stay stable or not rise. Using permanent magnets means less draw for the same power as a starter decades ago.

I've noted over the years that as starters have gotten better and engines easier to start, the wires going to the starters have shrunk in gauge. Compare the wire needed to crank a 1980s 6 to these - these use much smaller wires.



You guys are just no fun - do it like we did years ago. A screwdriver across the terminals.

I still have screwdrivers with melted lead on them (I'm 73).

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