Ballooning Inventory- sales slowing?

[ldstruckn]

I have been waiting years for a diesel wrangler and then fell in love with overlanding so the gladiator became a target. I went snowboarding last friday to Copper Mountain here in colorado and saw three gladiator rubicons with lifts in the lot. To put it in perspective that lot was full of BMW's, Mercedes, audi's, two Bentayga's, and three gladiators.....that is who is buying theses trucks.
I cannot see trading in the quality and prestige of my X3 M40i for a similarly priced jeep truck....I think the price needs to drop by 10k to get me looking at them again.

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[aj8544]

Until there is an option on the order sheet where you can add 33% more legal payload to the door jamb placard, it will be impossible to compare Sport S Max Tow to Rubicon. MSRP comparisons don't tell the whole story.

True as far as the placard goes, but once you modify the sport s with larger tires etc...(like most do) the real world capability is no different. Yes I know if you are pulled over the placard counts, but its not correct to think that its always accurate once the truck is modified. Honestly if the 650lb tow rating variance is the make or break for someone’s needs the JT probably isnt the right truck for them imo. Same is true for payload.

 

[SecondTJ]

FCA has been intentionally overproducing


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...008-discounts-as-staff-fumes-over-unsold-cars

 

[eaglerugby04]

FCA has been intentionally overproducing


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...008-discounts-as-staff-fumes-over-unsold-cars

features that don’t meet market demand. That just about explains the JT problem.

 

[Rollcast]

features that don’t meet market demand. That just about explains the JT problem.

But, but, but....our algorithm predicted it!

 

[BAT]

features that don’t meet market demand. That just about explains the JT problem.

Exactly cause no one wants a Sport S with Max Tow and nice tires/rims/lights/bumper 8.4 system as standard. Much rather have collision detection and auto cruise control (Ha)

 

[WXman]

True as far as the placard goes, but once you modify the sport s with larger tires etc...(like most do) the real world capability is no different. Yes I know if you are pulled over the placard counts, but its not correct to think that its always accurate once the truck is modified. Honestly if the 650lb tow rating variance is the make or break for someone’s needs the JT probably isnt the right truck for them imo. Same is true for payload.

Tires don't affect payload or towing capacity. They are unsprung weight. Also, what's the difference between modifying a Sport and modifying a Rubicon? All of these trucks end up changed from factory. I'd rather start with 33% more capacity.

And, if you run numbers on how payload directly affects towing, the difference actually can become thousands of pounds rather than 650 lbs.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Tires don't affect payload or towing capacity. They are unsprung weight. Also, what's the difference between modifying a Sport and modifying a Rubicon? All of these trucks end up changed from factory. I'd rather start with 33% more capacity.

And, if you run numbers on how payload directly affects towing, the difference actually can become thousands of pounds rather than 650 lbs.

That payload and towing difference is important for me. I dont plan on towing or hauling much, but I want to be able to when balanced against a capable off-road vehicle. 400-500lbs of difference in payload between Max Tow and Rubicon is the difference between taking my family or a trailer. Say the combined weight of my self, wife, and children is 500lbs. Well with a Rubicon’s 1000lb payload (say 1100lb placard, as most I have seen, and a 100lb rubber mat for protecting the bed irrespective of liner), you have 500lb of payload left. That is now a 5000lb trailer you could take. Compared to the Max Tow, 1500-1600lb payload means you can now either tow the same 5000lb trailer plus 500lbs of gear in the bed, or tow a 7650lb trailer with 250lbs of payload left for in-bed gear.

Not having locking diffs was certainly a big consideration. They would help a lot (I would think) on the muddy KY roads/trails in the Appalachian Mountains.

 

[aj8544]

Tires don't affect payload or towing capacity. They are unsprung weight. Also, what's the difference between modifying a Sport and modifying a Rubicon? All of these trucks end up changed from factory. I'd rather start with 33% more capacity.

And, if you run numbers on how payload directly affects towing, the difference actually can become thousands of pounds rather than 650 lbs.

Larger diameter tires essentially change gear ratio, which does change towing capability. Look at any truck mfgs max towing configurations- besides heavier rear springs the main change is typically gear ratio. I do see the payload number making a difference in capacity- I tow alot and fully understand tongue weight etc... My main point was just that if you buy a Sport S max tow and then add tires and a lift you dont have anything different than a Rubicon other than the legal sticker... And the Rubicon gives you the locking diffs, sway disconnect etc... which are very costly upgrades if not factory- to me it just seems like a better value once you get to the 50k range.

 

[Reasons]

That payload and towing difference is important for me. I dont plan on towing or hauling much, but I want to be able to when balanced against a capable off-road vehicle. 400-500lbs of difference in payload between Max Tow and Rubicon is the difference between taking my family or a trailer. Say the combined weight of my self, wife, and children is 500lbs. Well with a Rubicon’s 1000lb payload (say 1100lb placard, as most I have seen, and a 100lb rubber mat for protecting the bed irrespective of liner), you have 500lb of payload left. That is now a 5000lb trailer you could take. Compared to the Max Tow, 1500-1600lb payload means you can now either tow the same 5000lb trailer plus 500lbs of gear in the bed, or tow a 7650lb trailer with 250lbs of payload left for in-bed gear.

Not having locking diffs was certainly a big consideration. They would help a lot (I would think) on the muddy KY roads/trails in the Appalachian Mountains.

My Rubicon equipped with the Tow package has a max payload of 1260lbs stated on the placard. Sports S Max Tow is 1550lbs. Max payload. That is a difference of 300lbs. Not 500lbs. - 600lbs. But, I get your point.

Here is my Rubicon overlanding build setup for reference:

Steel bumper with winch: +120lbs
Weight of 4 pax: +500lbs
Recovery gear: + 40lbs
Rack system: +100lbs
RTT: +125lbs
Air compressor: +10lbs
Future Mods (35" wheels/tires) + 100lbs

1260lbs payload - 995lbs = 265lbs left for food/water/clothes/misc equipment. Doable for my family but I am closing in on that weight limit. That extra 300lbs payload the Sport S Max Tow has over the Rubicon is nice here if I planned to tow also, but I dont.

Everyone has different needs. I definitely thought long and hard about the Max Tow before making my decision. I really like the Max Tow package minus the crappy stock wheels/tire combo.

 

[eaglerugby04]

But, but, but....our algorithm predicted it!

The computers have to be right! We used advanced analytics in the cloud! lol

Exactly cause no one wants a Sport S with Max Tow and nice tires/rims/lights/bumper 8.4 system as standard. Much rather have collision detection and auto cruise control (Ha)

lol exactly. I think the algorithm failed miserably because people have bought those options on other FCA cars, but not Jeeps. I have a feeling they may be killing off the overland trim at some point with all the options they are adding to the sport s. With the 8.4 inch and matching colors there isn't really much for the overland to offer anymore.

I also hear people really like lower trim levels costing more than the next. everybody wants a 56K overland and Sport S that are over 45K

 

[PyrPatriot]

My Rubicon equipped with the Tow package has a max payload of 1260lbs stated on the placard. Sports S Max Tow is 1550lbs. Max payload. That is a difference of 300lbs. Not 500lbs. - 600lbs. But, I get your point.

Here is my Rubicon overlanding build setup for reference:

Steel bumper with winch: +120lbs
Weight of 4 pax: +500lbs
Recovery gear: + 40lbs
Rack system: +100lbs
RTT: +125lbs
Air compressor: +10lbs
Future Mods (35" wheels/tires) + 100lbs

1260lbs payload - 995lbs = 265lbs left for food/water/clothes/misc equipment. Doable for my family but I am closing in on that weight limit. That extra 300lbs payload the Sport S Max Tow has over the Rubicon is nice here if I planned to tow also, but I dont.

Everyone has different needs. I definitely thought long and hard about the Max Tow before making my decision. I really like the Max Tow package minus the crappy stock wheels/tire combo.

Good to know there are ones out there breaking 1200lb payload! I didnt see any around where I am when I was shopping.

For daily driving the stock wheels and tires are ok, for me. I got a set of stock steel wheel takeoffs and a used set of M/Ts in the same size for when I go off roading.

I really wish I had locking diffs on my Max Tow

 

[5JeepsAz]

FCA has been intentionally overproducing


https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...008-discounts-as-staff-fumes-over-unsold-cars

Alex, I'll take "what happens when predictive analytics meets real people for 800" ... Daily double?!? Okay dokey. Let's make it a true daily double. Answer, "unobtainable expectations create artificial environment describable only by obfuscated reporting leading inexorably to top floor decision lie to investor class, according to 2008 annual reporting practices, ground truth unaltered, SSDD, technology and AI has changed exactly nothing, the ultimate example nothing new under the sun. For reference see REO Speedwagon , wheel in the sky (for those in automobile analytics, this is more than a band your momma loved, it's also an actual vehicle!). Note for afficionados, to be heard as lament, sung by a Gladiator, from some dealer lot...

 

[BAT]

The computers have to be right! We used advanced analytics in the cloud! lol



lol exactly. I think the algorithm failed miserably because people have bought those options on other FCA cars, but not Jeeps. I have a feeling they may be killing off the overland trim at some point with all the options they are adding to the sport s. With the 8.4 inch and matching colors there isn't really much for the overland to offer anymore.

I also hear people really like lower trim levels costing more than the next. everybody wants a 56K overland and Sport S that are over 45K

Things is all the things they are wanting to charge bit by bit for are basically standard on a lot of vehicles now. We were looking at the Accords which my wife likes a lot as we have had two of them over the years and they have been bullet proof. All of this stuff is standard now. Personally I don't want all that stuff but damn to charge for LED lights and other things is really a bit much. I can see the 8.4 as an upgrade but if you upgrade it in the Sport S they clean your clock. I found a Gobi Sport S had a load out almost what I was looking for but didn't have auxiliary switches and had a 5" screen. I was thinking come on FCA Auxilary switches should be a no brainer standard in these things and 5" screen is ridiculous for a vehicle that has back up and could have forward facing camera. Seriously 5" screen should not even exist.

 

[aj8544]

Things is all the things they are wanting to charge bit by bit for are basically standard on a lot of vehicles now. We were looking at the Accords which my wife likes a lot as we have had two of them over the years and they have been bullet proof. All of this stuff is standard now. Personally I don't want all that stuff but damn to charge for LED lights and other things is really a bit much. I can see the 8.4 as an upgrade but if you upgrade it in the Sport S they clean your clock. I found a Gobi Sport S had a load out almost what I was looking for but didn't have auxiliary switches and had a 5" screen. I was thinking come on FCA Auxilary switches should be a no brainer standard in these things and 5" screen is ridiculous for a vehicle that has back up and could have forward facing camera. Seriously 5" screen should not even exist.

Exactly. If they would just standardize the trims a bit, and simplify some of the options I bet production costs would be lower and hopefully msrp as well. Imagine how complex the production scheduling has to be- the 3 different radios and audio groups alone is ridiculous!

It really seems like they would have been better off to offer only a couple trims, say Sport S and Rubicon, with streamlined options- especially when they said they only planned 75-100k per year. The flooding of dealer lots with terribly optioned units sure looks like a terrible decision. I cant imagine a worse vehicle to handle this way- considering how particular/ specific most Jeep buyers are.

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