Convince me to get a GMRS radio

[DocMike]

nope. Just have it wired to the cig lighter. Will go under dash, but not in a hurry to do it.

For those of you with the mx 275, are you working it to the aux switches?

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[johnparjr]

As I posted earlier I use GMRS and have the Midland 275 and I just picked up some more little walkies when we travel for the kids and others who don’t have one. Found these for really cheap. They work great and if someone loses one I won’t be upset


https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-T10...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

[DanW]

Too bad you can't use 19 in most of northern states...but he is a youtube guy so he doesn't care...

Actually, Canadians can now use channe 19 at 2 watts, so the US rule is out of date. Besides that, the line is very close to Canada in most places, so most of those affected northern states still could have used it.

Plus, the "official" channel is simplex only, so it does not include the use of a repeater. Typical range at 50 watts for me in somewhat flat land with trees/builldings hs been about 6 miles, vehicle to vehicle. You'd have to get very close to that border to bother them. (These guys getting 20+ miles without a repeater either live in the desert, the plains, or are talkng to someone line of sight on a hilltop.) So using Ch 19 in the US even at high power shouldn't bother Canadians, even their government. Even being a polite neighbor you should be able to use high power even within a few miles of the border.

The US regulation will take years to change, even if the FCC is well aware it is out of date. They approved the drop in the license fee to $35 a year ago but they are still charging $70, so we know how that goes.

Line A:

 

[Radio Guy]

Actually, Canadians can now use channe 19 at 2 watts, so the US rule is out of date. Besides that, the line is very close to Canada in most places, so most of those affected northern states still could have used it.

Plus, the "official" channel is simplex only, so it does not include the use of a repeater. Typical range at 50 watts for me in somewhat flat land with trees/builldings hs been about 6 miles, vehicle to vehicle. You'd have to get very close to that border to bother them. (These guys getting 20+ miles without a repeater either live in the desert, the plains, or are talkng to someone line of sight on a hilltop.) So using Ch 19 in the US even at high power shouldn't bother Canadians, even their government. Even being a polite neighbor you should be able to use high power even within a few miles of the border.

The US regulation will take years to change, even if the FCC is well aware it is out of date. They approved the drop in the license fee to $35 a year ago but they are still charging $70, so we know how that goes.

Line A:

20+ mile range on GMRS with 30 to 50 watts is an everyday thing driving up and down So Cal freeways. Terrain ranges from flat to some rolling hills. The key to good range is a gain type antenna mounted high on the vehicle and I always ran a roof mount colinear type antenna, you will not get that kind of range with a 4" high Chinese made pud antenna mounted below the hood.

I have not mapped out range on my JT as much as older vehicles with roof mount antennas but my 2ft tall gain antenna mounted on the hood was pushing a good 10-15mi last trip out but that was to another vehicle on a different freeway with lots of trees and buildings between us.

 

[DanW]

20+ mile range on GMRS with 30 to 50 watts is an everyday thing driving up and down So Cal freeways. Terrain ranges from flat to some rolling hills. The key to good range is a gain type antenna mounted high on the vehicle and I always ran a roof mount colinear type antenna, you will not get that kind of range with a 4" high Chinese made pud antenna mounted below the hood.

I have not mapped out range on my JT as much as older vehicles with roof mount antennas but my 2ft tall gain antenna mounted on the hood was pushing a good 10-15mi last trip out but that was to another vehicle on a different freeway with lots of trees and buildings between us.

Yes, but I also noted some obstructions and my own terrain/experience where I live, which is what I was referring to. You are absolutely right that under certain conditions you can go much further.

Another limiting factor, as you also clearly stated, is the Jeep's limited and less than ideal ground plane offering. Fiberglass doesn't make for a good ground plane, and an alluminum hood doesn't take magnetic mounts. The best I've found is a mount on the fender near the A-pillar with a tall Midland 6db antenna, which I'm running on all 3 of my Jeeps. 10 miles is about the best I've seen consistently on the interstate, at least in mildly hilly country that is full of trees. I'll occasonally get further than that, but not consistently. I'm sure it would do better on a long flat stretch in the plains states. But trees and buildings and hills degrade it in a pretty big way. We do have flat farm land in the northern part of the state of Indiana, but from the middle on down, it is not so flat and has many more trees.

So how far you'd get across the border would depend on the terrain. Certainly it would fly across water pretty well. But the point of the rule was to avoid interference with Canadian first responders and emergency services. They appear not to use the frequencies for 19 and 21 anymore, so the rule is out of date. They've opened it up to their civillian GMRS users. If the FCC moves at their quickest pace, they'll roll that rule back in about 2030. But I doubt they'll even try to enforce it, if they ever have. It'd be hard to make a fine stick if the rationale for the rule is now gone.

YMMV depending on where you live and what you drive. I did put a magnetic antenna on top of our Ford Transit van, which had a high roof. I was pretty certain I was getting over 20 and maybe out to 30 miles of range with it. Of course not only was it high up, it also had an excellent and LARGE ground plane. And I was using just a 15 watt Midland. I'm sure I could have gotten way out there with the 50 watt Wouxun I'm running now in my Jeep.

 

[CMac]

You spend a lot of hard earned money on things you hope to never have to use. But you are damn glad to have them when you need them.

This very idea....always reminds me of the time I came home with a shop-vac from Home Depot, easily 20+ years ago now, after wife and i buying our first house. Very first thing I ever bought from them after buying my first house....

She: "wtf is that and what's it for?"

Me: "ah, you'll see....something, someday."

We have since sucked up kid vomit, cat vomit, cheerios from everywhere in the vehicles, overflowed toilet "water", dropped and ruptured milk cartons, spilled soda, hornet nests (with extension tube attached), dead rodents (don't ask), along with countless other things.

She questions nothing anymore when I say "because two is one, one is none, sugar pop" or "better to have and never need than the other way around..."

i still have the trusty shop-vac AND a safe full of firearms AND enough tools to make Bob Villa roll his eyes. I'm also an Amateur Extra (ham radio enthusiast) and you can never, EVER have enough radios. Not ever. Or antennas.

 

[Sunbeam63]

This very idea....always reminds me of the time I came home with a shop-vac from Home Depot, easily 20+ years ago now, after wife and i buying our first house. Very first thing I ever bought from them after buying my first house....

She: "wtf is that and what's it for?"

Me: "ah, you'll see....something, someday."

We have since sucked up kid vomit, cat vomit, cheerios from everywhere in the vehicles, overflowed toilet "water", dropped and ruptured milk cartons, spilled soda, hornet nests (with extension tube attached), dead rodents (don't ask), along with countless other things.

She questions nothing anymore when I say "because two is one, one is none, sugar pop" or "better to have and never need than the other way around..."

i still have the trusty shop-vac AND a safe full of firearms AND enough tools to make Bob Villa roll his eyes. I'm also an Amateur Extra (ham radio enthusiast) and you can never, EVER have enough radios. Not ever. Or antennas.

@DocMike ’s comment also resonated with me. I put together a med kit with a bunch of masks in it in 2019. My wife made fun of me having so many strange items together. But after 2020 hit, she has told me since then that she is appreciative of what I’ve put together.

Hopefully the most use this gets is communicating around the farm, weather updates, and communicating at the track! But it can be used for other situations too.

 

[Sunbeam63]

20+ mile range on GMRS with 30 to 50 watts is an everyday thing driving up and down So Cal freeways. Terrain ranges from flat to some rolling hills. The key to good range is a gain type antenna mounted high on the vehicle and I always ran a roof mount colinear type antenna, you will not get that kind of range with a 4" high Chinese made pud antenna mounted below the hood.

I have not mapped out range on my JT as much as older vehicles with roof mount antennas but my 2ft tall gain antenna mounted on the hood was pushing a good 10-15mi last trip out but that was to another vehicle on a different freeway with lots of trees and buildings between us.

Yes, but I also noted some obstructions and my own terrain/experience where I live, which is what I was referring to. You are absolutely right that under certain conditions you can go much further.

Another limiting factor, as you also clearly stated, is the Jeep's limited and less than ideal ground plane offering. Fiberglass doesn't make for a good ground plane, and an alluminum hood doesn't take magnetic mounts. The best I've found is a mount on the fender near the A-pillar with a tall Midland 6db antenna, which I'm running on all 3 of my Jeeps. 10 miles is about the best I've seen consistently on the interstate, at least in mildly hilly country that is full of trees. I'll occasonally get further than that, but not consistently. I'm sure it would do better on a long flat stretch in the plains states. But trees and buildings and hills degrade it in a pretty big way. We do have flat farm land in the northern part of the state of Indiana, but from the middle on down, it is not so flat and has many more trees.

So how far you'd get across the border would depend on the terrain. Certainly it would fly across water pretty well. But the point of the rule was to avoid interference with Canadian first responders and emergency services. They appear not to use the frequencies for 19 and 21 anymore, so the rule is out of date. They've opened it up to their civillian GMRS users. If the FCC moves at their quickest pace, they'll roll that rule back in about 2030. But I doubt they'll even try to enforce it, if they ever have. It'd be hard to make a fine stick if the rationale for the rule is now gone.

YMMV depending on where you live and what you drive. I did put a magnetic antenna on top of our Ford Transit van, which had a high roof. I was pretty certain I was getting over 20 and maybe out to 30 miles of range with it. Of course not only was it high up, it also had an excellent and LARGE ground plane. And I was using just a 15 watt Midland. I'm sure I could have gotten way out there with the 50 watt Wouxun I'm running now in my Jeep.

You guys know your radios! Some of the things you’ve both discussed I am not understanding, but as I dive deeper into the hobby, I’ll start to learn.

I’ve also noticed that the jeep doesn’t have an ideal spot to mount. I’m don’t mind a longer antenna, but the mounting position is hard to find. Between a removable top, folding windshield, and aluminum panels, it limits your options. I’ll need to do some thinking on that.

 

[hjdca]

As a follow up to my last post, I'm not a big fan of the short fat stubby plastic antennas shown in many posts here as they are less efficient than a simple 6" long 1/4 wave whip in most cases. The absolute worst is the short stubby plastic VHF or VHF/UHF dual band versions where VHF performance is absolutely dismal.

For GMRS a simple 6" 1/4 wave whip on an NMO mount is adequate for most and for the best distance one of the roughly 2ft long colinear types will extend your range some. One post above shows some narrow antenna patterns as a reason not to use a high gain antenna for communicating from high on a mountain to way down below because the antenna pattern will restrict signals going up high and down low.

This is somewhat true but usually doesn't apply to two mobiles talking simplex to each other. In fact two 2ft tall gain type antennas on GMRS will generally give better comms from high on a hill to the base of the hill and the antenna patterns vs gain in the example given are a bit exaggerated. The problem talking from the top of a mountain to the base is from using a high gain repeater antenna like 10dBd gain on the mountain top which will have a thin narrow beam width and will shoot over someone at the base of the mountain. You don't have to worry about extreme narrow beam widths on a GMRS mobile antenna and not getting from the bottom of the hill to the top. I've tested this many times over the years with a back seat full of different antennas swapping them all around while talking up and down 5k ft mountains to mobiles and repeaters and noting any differences.

Another thing to consider is 1/2 wave over 1/2 wave or 5/8 over 5/8 wave mobile colinear antenna has at the most 3dB gain over a dipole or 3dBd gain and not 5 or 7 or some other nonsense. Many antenna gain figures are complete made up lies by the antenna mfrs or they are using dBi as the standard, which would show 2.14dB higher than the same antenna referenced to a dipole and that's where you might see 5+ dB gain from a UHF mobile antenna, which is not realistic for a 2ft high GMRS antenna.

Anyway, here is a reasonable and cheap 1/4 wave whip for GMRS and 70cm amateur costing about $15 with shipping. This is what I use much of the time unless I'm needing to talk 20+ mi down the highway and then I'll switch to a 2ft long colinear type which works a little better. I use this antenna on my trunk lip mount on the hood as shown above and this works better than the short stubby plastic types and will not bend the mount or tear off if you snag something.

https://www.amazon.com/Tram-410MHz-490MHz-Pre-Tuned-Antenna/dp/B00IDTJ2VS/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1LR96XC0534WW&keywords=tram+uhf+antenna&qid=1641400552&sprefix=tram+uhf+antenna,aps,108&sr=8-4

Hi Mike, I bought that antenna you recommend on Amazon, but, now I am also thinking that I might benefit more from the "Laird Technologies BB4502N 450-470 MHz 2.4dB No Ground Plane Antenna" --- based on my installation location. I want to keep the cowl mount installation location with the ghost shown below. I already have the Midland 3db ghost, and the Midland 6db... For this mounting location, do you think the Laird or the Tram you reference is better for mountainous 4wheeling with the gang ? Here is a pic of my mounting location with the midland ghost.
Note: I am currently using the updated MXT275, and may go to the MXT575 in a year or so... Thanks in advance for your recommendation.

 

[DocMike]

100% agree. This is the soul of Jeeping.

This very idea....always reminds me of the time I came home with a shop-vac from Home Depot, easily 20+ years ago now, after wife and i buying our first house. Very first thing I ever bought from them after buying my first house....

She: "wtf is that and what's it for?"

Me: "ah, you'll see....something, someday."

We have since sucked up kid vomit, cat vomit, cheerios from everywhere in the vehicles, overflowed toilet "water", dropped and ruptured milk cartons, spilled soda, hornet nests (with extension tube attached), dead rodents (don't ask), along with countless other things.

She questions nothing anymore when I say "because two is one, one is none, sugar pop" or "better to have and never need than the other way around..."

i still have the trusty shop-vac AND a safe full of firearms AND enough tools to make Bob Villa roll his eyes. I'm also an Amateur Extra (ham radio enthusiast) and you can never, EVER have enough radios. Not ever. Or antennas.

 

[DocMike]

My radio was under $200. It's wired to my jeep. I find the NOAA weather band invaluable. I had a 2004 Subaru Forester XT that had weather band. They dropped it from subsequent models. Jeep should have it.
I keep this under my seat. I check the charge once every two months.

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GB40-Ul...t=&hvlocphy=9029017&hvtargid=pla-449394730282

@DocMike ’s comment also resonated with me. I put together a med kit with a bunch of masks in it in 2019. My wife made fun of me having so many strange items together. But after 2020 hit, she has told me since then that she is appreciative of what I’ve put together.

Hopefully the most use this gets is communicating around the farm, weather updates, and communicating at the track! But it can be used for other situations too.

 

[DanW]

You guys know your radios! Some of the things you’ve both discussed I am not understanding, but as I dive deeper into the hobby, I’ll start to learn.

I’ve also noticed that the jeep doesn’t have an ideal spot to mount. I’m don’t mind a longer antenna, but the mounting position is hard to find. Between a removable top, folding windshield, and aluminum panels, it limits your options. I’ll need to do some thinking on that.

Hand helds are good, such as the Radioddity GM-30. I'd avoid the Baofeng. They are cheap, but complicated. The GM-30 is simple but powerful and has features you will only use if you get more into it. But it is easy to use and it charges by USB-C, which is nice.

Midland's MXT-275 is nice. It is narrow band and doesn't play well with repeaters, but it is high quality, has loud speakers, and gives you many mounting options. It is also powerful, at 15w. THe narrow band hasn't caused me any trouble. It just sometimes (not always) makes me sound quiet to the others with wide band radios. Overall, I really like it. Mine is going into my wife's Jeep. (Btw, the GM-30 and many others can be set to wide or narrow band, right in the menu.)

I've got a Wouxun KG1000-G, which was expensive. It is a full 50 watts. The chassis is larger but it has a remote face. I put the chasis under my seat, on top of the adjuster bar. I rigged it up so it is solid and has air around all sides to cool it. The face is above my center stack on a RAM mount I'm going to tweak that a little to bring it lower and make it a little cleaner.

Radioddity makes a DB20G and DB25G, 20 and 25 watts, respectively. They are tiny and powerful. And they have VERY loud speakers and bright displays. They are only around $110 bucks. In terms of value/power, they are the best thing going. They are full featured, but also simple to use, once you get past the Chinese English instruction manuals.

Here are my JL and JK setups. The JK has the Radioddity DB25-G. All use Midland antennas. My wife's JL will get my old Midland MXT275 because she'll rarely use it and it will be the most out of the way. I'm wiring it up today, in fact.

All of the Jeeps have this antenna setup with a Midland. They need to be as high as possible to get range. Unfortunately, they can't get a ground plane on the hart top. This is the best arrangement I've found, so far. And I can't see it from the driver seat. The cowling lights don't reflect off of it and back into my eyes at night, either. The wire is a little cleaner on the JL's.

Don't underestimate the value of a loud speaker. My expensive 50w Wouxun isn't loud enough so I had to use an external speaker to augment it. The MXT275 can blast from both the chassis and the hand set. The hand set speaker is much better and louder than the one on the Wouxun. The Radioddity's are LOUD. So no issue with them.

Midland will be coming out with the MXT575 this summer. It will have 50 watts and more features, but very simple to use and will have the 275's great hand set. I may go to it eventually. It can also be set to wide band. win, win, win.

Hope this all helps!

 

[CMac]

Im a ham guy and a sucker for 2m, so on the road, I run a Kenwood TM-D74A, with B side running APRS (144.39) and A side scanning pre-programmed local repeater list, NOAA and simplex call freq's....the only crappy part of that amazing radio is it's 5W output. The radio connects to my earbuds/headsets (think vox) via Bluetooth, so I can listen to radio traffic without having it all come thru the regular speaker and mixing in with road noise....and people whining about the radio noise interference with their YouTube playing on their phones whilst in the back seat.

I missed the boat on picking up a TM-D710GA for a full-time mobile rig (with FIFTY Watts)...Kenwood has discontinued both of these fine radios....

For GMRS, we have two Midland handhelds. They're primary use is spotting and other trail shenanigans. Someday, I might install full-time mobile, but for now, we'll make do with these.

 

[49Gramps]

I have the Midland MXT-275 and stick the little mag mount antenna on one of the hood hinge bolts. Not great, but it's good enough for at least a couple of miles.

 

[Radio Guy]

Hi Mike, I bought that antenna you recommend on Amazon, but, now I am also thinking that I might benefit more from the "Laird Technologies BB4502N 450-470 MHz 2.4dB No Ground Plane Antenna" --- based on my installation location. I want to keep the cowl mount installation location with the ghost shown below. I already have the Midland 3db ghost, and the Midland 6db... For this mounting location, do you think the Laird or the Tram you reference is better for mountainous 4wheeling with the gang ? Here is a pic of my mounting location with the midland ghost.
Note: I am currently using the updated MXT275, and may go to the MXT575 in a year or so... Thanks in advance for your recommendation.

The Laird BB4502N is a 1/2 wave no ground plane antenna about 12" tall and about 0dBd gain or a little over 2dBi gain. It would mount in places like on the plastic cowl with no metal under it and it will tune up just fine, but without the sheet metal ground plane its range will be slightly less than the same antenna mounted in the middle of some sheet metal.

The "gain" type antennas I refer to are about 2 to 3ft tall with a coil in the middle and rated around 5dBi gain or 3dBd and probably similar to your Tram 6dB but I would have to look that one up. These all need some sheet metal under them to tune and work but will more than double your signal compared to the Laird BB4502N with no ground plane.

The Laird BB4502N would work slightly better than the 1/4 wave whip I recommended and noticeably better than the short plastic pud types considering the same mounting location for all. You don't need much antenna for caravanning off road or to reach a couple miles down the road but for over 10mi range on flat lands or getting to distant repeaters you need a good antenna in the clear with some ground plane under it. The trunk lip mount on my hood is the best place I've found for an easy install and to do any better would require fabricating something with a minimum of 12" dia ground plane and getting it at roof level.

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