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Dealerships can be so sneaky

Mac Attack

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haha, you can see from my photos that they added a destination charge that was never there before. The rug was pulled, I caught it. And you're right, they're trying to make a profit, but that doesn't mean you add a destination fee on a whim to get back the advertised sale value.

"all three “deals”". You're overthinking the two blue Jeeps. I only added those for context of wanting a Jeep. There was no after factory order negotiations. Subject matter is Orange Jeep and fake sale
Let me rephrase my previous comment, "in this dog-eat-dog world," (think about this) are you one of the dogs?
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ShadowsPapa

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Order cars can really screw over a dealership dependent on how it’s ordered. I’m not making things up. I worked in the industry for many years until I left roughly a year ago.

I ran the internet departments of a lot of dealerships of different manufacturers and I’m very familiar with what’s common practice and legal. I don’t necessarily agree with not including the destination charge in the online sales price. I always included the full msrp minus discounts, but it’s very common.

I don’t care are enough to debate this further, I’m just trying to spread some industry knowledge.
And you have to figure that is not normally the final price. It's a get you to call price. Rare are the internet ads that have everything in there. You know there's other charges, taxes, doc fees and so on. I never buy based on that - I call and say "I'm looking at this, what's the FINAL price with everything added".

I hated to do it - I don't normally work this way but when I ordered my JT in 2019 the sales guy was great, nice guy, and knew everything about Jeeps there was to know - without looking or asking. But when it came time to talk turkey "I have to go ask my manager" and I HATE THAT! Then they tried to tell me they would have trouble selling my trade truck - a clean, low miles (44,000 or something like that) 2011 Silverado extended cab 4x4. He low balled me and complained and whined that they sold RAM trucks and a Chevy would just sit, may have to go to auction, etc.
I ordered but the more I thought the more I fumed. I ended up selling my Chevy to a local Chevy dealer for thousands more, in less than an hour.
I had also found out about Spencer in Spirit Lake and asked for his pricing - less than the local dealer sold mine to me for.
So when my truck arrived I went to pick it up - they asked where my trade was - I told them I sold it already.
So then he whined and complained that they really really needed and wanted my truck, they had someone that would have bought it and how easily they could have sold it. That really ticked me off so I pulled out the sheet I got from Spencer (about 4 grand less) and said - I can do better elsewhere - but...... Because I'd have to start all over again and order again, and they are hours away, a full day round trip, if you knock off a couple grand I'll go ahead with this one.
He called in his manager who came out and had this "oh, crap" look and they chatted and said to me - if we knock 2 off, we're ok, then? Yup. They seemed like it would have been a big hassle for me to back out.
My wife later said "I can't believe you actually did that" - well that double-talk on my trade, and I'd just had enough. I don't like doing that but they did still make money. Heck, if a Chevy dealer could give me a check for my truck after literally walking around it one time, driving it around their building one time (they had my truck 2 or 3 minutes, tops) and not blink or bat an eye - the Jeep dealer could have done the same.

I have since learned a lot more about how this can be done in today's world. We bought my wife's Jeep from Spencer and it was a pure joy, no hassle, here's the numbers and he even showed me how he came up with the numbers, what Jeep's like my wife's trade were selling for elsewhere, he supported his numbers.
 

Jefe1018

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haha, you can see from my photos that they added a destination charge that was never there before. The rug was pulled, I caught it. And you're right, they're trying to make a profit, but that doesn't mean you add a destination fee on a whim to get back the advertised sale value.

"all three “deals”". You're overthinking the two blue Jeeps. I only added those for context of wanting a Jeep. There was no after factory order negotiations. Subject matter is Orange Jeep and fake sale
Since you seem to not understand and are arguing with everyone here, no one cares - sadly all if not most dealers do business this way. Good on you for catching it. I hope you enjoy your new Jeep.
 
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BowlofSoup

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Since you seem to not understand and are arguing with everyone here, no one cares - sadly all if not most dealers do business this way. Good on you for catching it. I hope you enjoy your new Jeep.
I explained in greater detail the situation and provided proof via photos of what the dealership was trying to do.

I agree most do business this way, but that doesn't mean I won't call them out and vent.
 

Daddiator54

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Oh yeah, never trust online prices. Saw a sarge green freedom for $51k online. You could visually see it had dealership mods so right off the bat it was too good to be true. Was at the dealership getting what I have now and that sarge green had a sticker price of $72k and that’s before dealership fees. What’s also b.s. and I called them out on is that the website has a “make an offer” feature. That website feature doesn’t work. You get no response and also, they wont accept your offer because the online price is already an average of 10-20k below sticker so there’s no way they’d accept an offer lower than internet price.
 

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I thought all new vehicles have a destination fee added.

Here is a clip from the KBB website.

Where Destination Fees Come From
Well, if you’ve seen the trucks carrying cars on the highways or freight trains stacked with new vehicles, you are basically witnessing the service your destination fees pay. Destination fees range from about $900 to $1,700 per vehicle. Destination fees are not negotiable. No amount of bargaining makes them go away.

Logic would tell you that if you lived near a port or a particular automotive assembly plant, you could potentially pay less for the destination fees. But that’s not so.

Manufacturers calculate the destination charges. They base it on something called an “equalized delivery.” In other words, manufacturers factor the cost of shipping all vehicles on the line. They equalize the cost, so the fee is equal for all car buyers.

That’s why destination charges can’t be waived.
 

sharpsicle

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I thought all new vehicles have a destination fee added.

Here is a clip from the KBB website.

Where Destination Fees Come From
Well, if you’ve seen the trucks carrying cars on the highways or freight trains stacked with new vehicles, you are basically witnessing the service your destination fees pay. Destination fees range from about $900 to $1,700 per vehicle. Destination fees are not negotiable. No amount of bargaining makes them go away.

Logic would tell you that if you lived near a port or a particular automotive assembly plant, you could potentially pay less for the destination fees. But that’s not so.

Manufacturers calculate the destination charges. They base it on something called an “equalized delivery.” In other words, manufacturers factor the cost of shipping all vehicles on the line. They equalize the cost, so the fee is equal for all car buyers.

That’s why destination charges can’t be waived.
Yep. The dealership can choose to eat the fee themselves to secure a sale, or they'll pass it on the to consumer in the final price's added fees (most common). Either way it's always a separate charge and is never rolled into MSRP.

OP just seems to not have understood what it was and got upset. The icing was just the sneaky nature in which he tried buying a truck but then reflected that on to the dealer.
 
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Garemlin

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If you had done your research you would see that the destination is part of the final price. You see it on the build and price, window sticker and bottom line of the invoice. Pretty easy to see. Destination charge is on pretty much every vehicle. You can't trust online pricing. This is how they get people in the door. By leaving out key pieces of information or making them not obvious. No different than dealers listing all of these incentives that drop the price substantially. But most people don't read the fine print to see that not everyone qualifies for all incentives. Then they throw hissy fits when then get to the dealer and can't get them.

Vehicles are a major purchase. You need to research and know what you are buying and paying.
 

Rahkmalla

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Either way it's always a separate charge and is never rolled into MSRP.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Every window sticker I've ever seen shows Base MSRP + options + destination = Total MSRP. I'm looking at a JT window sticker and an F150 window sticker right now, and both Total MSRPs include destination fees. Advertising a vehicle for a sales price, then tacking on destination is 100% false advertising. The "Everybody does it" excuses are apologist behavior of the highest order.

there are MANY of you saying destination isn't included in MSRP... destination is just as much included in MSRP as a cold weather package or an automatic transmission or a Willys package.

As for the specifics of negotiating destination fees, or doc fees, or taxes, who cares what "fees" are non-negotiable. If the dealership wants a sale, they can lower their sale price to match whatever they choose to match. If that means selling you a car for 1595 less than invoice, yes they didn't technically negotiate the destination charge, just like you can't technically negotiate doc fees, but if you don't want to pay a $400 doc fee, and the dealer really wants the sale, they can lower the sales price by $400.
 

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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Every window sticker I've ever seen shows Base MSRP + options + destination = Total MSRP. I'm looking at a JT window sticker and an F150 window sticker right now, and both Total MSRPs include destination fees. Advertising a vehicle for a sales price, then tacking on destination is 100% false advertising. The "Everybody does it" excuses are apologist behavior of the highest order.

there are MANY of you saying destination isn't included in MSRP... destination is just as much included in MSRP as a cold weather package or an automatic transmission or a Willys package.

As for the specifics of negotiating destination fees, or doc fees, or taxes, who cares what "fees" are non-negotiable. If the dealership wants a sale, they can lower their sale price to match whatever they choose to match. If that means selling you a car for 1595 less than invoice, yes they didn't technically negotiate the destination charge, just like you can't technically negotiate doc fees, but if you don't want to pay a $400 doc fee, and the dealer really wants the sale, they can lower the sales price by $400.
It is on the window sticker, yes, but as you stated it is additional to the base MSRP. Base MSRP covers everything up to the Optional Equipment line. Adding what's after that (options + destination) is called "Total Price", not base MSRP (or sometimes "price as equipped" which is base MSRP + options but no fees or destination charge). And not all "Total Price" values have destination added in. Some do, some don't.

Here's an example from a Gladiator. Base MSRP (red box) is $40,395. It goes up from there until you get the Total Price of $46,915 (yellow box). See that asterisk on Total Price? That means that displayed price as the destination fee added to it. If it doesn't have the asterisk, it doesn't include destination (at least that's how it was when I sold cars). But that doesn't mean the destination fee isn't it's own charge. It still is.

Jeep Gladiator Dealerships can be so sneaky 1640179891776


So, are you seeing that yellow box price online? Chances are no. Unless it specifically says it includes destination, then your online price is going to have destination added to it on the final paperwork. No MSRP includes the destination, base or otherwise. That's why they put the asterisk on there. The Total Price has an added caveat of destination in it that isn't part of MSRP.

Think of it this way: MSRP is what the vehicle is valued at. Destination charge adds no value. It's not part of MSRP. It's an additional charge. It's calculated by the factory and that's the only reason they're able to display it on the window sticker. The dealer can write up the paperwork however they want to cover for it.

Also notice how OPs "documents" all state Market Value Selling Price. Also a different value from MSRP or "Total Price". Plus he never put up the window sticker. It's a lot of different numbers for the same sale, I agree, and could be done simpler sure. But that doesn't mean anyone did anything shady here.
 
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Rahkmalla

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Here's an example from a Gladiator. Base MSRP (red box) is $40,395. It goes up from there until you get the Total Price of $46,915 (yellow box). See that asterisk on Total Price? That means that displayed price as the destination fee added to it. If it doesn't have the asterisk, it doesn't include destination (at least that's how it was when I sold cars). But that doesn't mean the destination fee isn't it's own charge. It still is.
Jeep lists MSRP in a general column, then breaks it down into base price and total price. A total price under an MSRP column is a total MSRP
Ford does it much better and clearly states Total MSRP
Window Sticker (forddirect.com)
Toyota includes destination in MSRP as well
Toyota Inventory | New Toyota Inventory Search
Chevy does it jeep's way where they have MSRP as a column broken up into base price, and total price
GMLBL_PROD_0039
Hyundai is the only one i've found who actually shows a single MSRP which does not include destination
monroney.pdf (hyundaiusa.com)
Kia lists TOTAL MSRP
(can't link sticker, but they do)

Most (including jeep) include destination in the Total MSRP or Total Price under the MSRP heading.

Long story short, dest is a built in part of the vehicle. There is no way to buy a car without it. Advertising a car without destination in the pricing is like advertising a gladiator without the price of mnfr installed options. It's a flat out lie.

every other part of the purchase changes depending on who's buying. NF plates (non-profits) don't have to pay reg fees in my state. EVs don't pay sales tax, nor do non-profits in my state. Doc fees can change depending on employee buying plans (back in my sales days ford limited the doc fee for $100 for A, D, and Z plan IIRC). Destination is always there. Advertising without destination is fraud.
 

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Shady buying tactics, shady selling tactics. I think both cancelled each other out.

I think one or two other posters already eluded to it, but dumping a custom order on a dealership can have negative impacts on them. It is not a matter of that they will sell, but is now a matter of when they may sell with MT option vehicles being slow movers. Also, dealerships have to factor in inventory tax planning on their vehicles in most locations. Already sold custom order vehicle many times do not have to go on their books for inventory or other tax purposes. Walking away from 2 custom ordered vehicles now forces the dealership to put them in regular inventory and now having taxes they were not originally planning on.
 
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2TH MVR

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Shady buying tactics, shady selling tactics. I think both cancelled each other out.

I think one or two other posters already eluded to it, but dumping a custom order on a dealership can have negative impacts on the dealership. It is not a matter of that they will sell, it is a matter of when they may sell and MT option vehicles are slow movers. Also, dealerships have to factor in inventory tax planning on their vehicle in most locations and already sold custom order vehicle many times do not have to go on their books for inventory or other tax purposes. Walking away from 2 custom ordered vehicles now forces them to put them in regular inventory and taxes they were not planning on.
If this were true .... then why don't the dealerships charge a non-refundable fee for custom orders?
 

Rahkmalla

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If this were true .... then why don't the dealerships charge a non-refundable fee for custom orders?
some do, some are legally not allowed to request a non-refundable deposit (states vary).

My state we have to refund all deposits, but the method of refund is open to interpretation. So if a customer was reasonable but just had a problem, we'd give them their money back by check. If a customer was shady, they'd get it back in store credit.

as for "if this were true" it absolutely is. Certain builds are hard sellers. Generally anything manual transmission that's not a miata, mustang, camaro, or challenger is going to take some time to find the right customer.

If I were a dealer, I would never take an order for a snazzberry manual JT sport or willys sport without a method of keeping the deposit if the person who ordered backs away.

manual transmissions, rollie windows, and pinkish hues will not find a buyer easily. especially not when combined.
 

saintpauljeff

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Dealership I bought both my Gladiators from posts the sticker "Total Price" as MSRP; regardless, when I was looking I pretty much compared the posted dealer online price against the sticker (extra work for sure, but no cost surprises for me)
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