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Diesel JT. Too much torque for D44s...

TheSolarWizard

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hello all, newbie here (although i bought my first TJ brand new in ‘98 and have owned several wranglers since)


In my opinion, D44 axles are in no way a proper match for 460 lbft of torque. I managed to grenade my rear 44 2 times on 35s behind the relatively anemic I6, the second time the housing itself twisted in 4 low. What’s the solution for Jeep? Detuned ecodiesel or bigger axles?
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homerun

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These are a new generation of D44. I read about them a ways back so I don’t remember how much stronger they are but they are not the same D44s you had.
 
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TheSolarWizard

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These are a new generation of D44. I read about them a ways back so I don’t remember how much stronger they are but they are not the same D44s you had.

I should have added that this was a D44 that was gusseted and sleeved, along with a ARB and 33 spline axle shafts. In no way is the “new D44” twice as strong as the equipment I had, yet the diesel is over 2x as much torque. it was also behind a 3 to 1 Atlas transfer caseinsyead of a 4 to 1 in the rubicon and 100 less HP.
 
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TheSolarWizard

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I get that axles can be swapped but mopar says a rubicon can run 35s with no lift. If I’ve got to dump $15gs in axles just to run 35s behind the diesel I’ll have serious doubts about moving forward and that sucks Nd it has nothing to do with my budget.
 

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bruno747

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Just tossing a guess to the wind here.

Jeep will probably have a detune kick in when the transfer case is in 4 low. Much like the cummins doesnt open up full torque until 3rd gear(if I remember right). Essentially limiting the extra twist 4 low has compared to the gas v6.
 

Mac Attack

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Am waiting for the diesel. Think it will come with the stronger MOJAVE frame...agree/disagree? Best guess it will not be offered in Rubicon trim...but Sport....agree/disagree? Will Jeep offer 60 axles for it? Will the frame support 60 axles? Bottom Line: If Jeep were to offer the Sport S, Diesel with60 axles...git outta my way, Brothers.
 

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Certainly the 442 lbs/ft (or 480 in the Ram) is significant, but what makes it an even bigger difference is that it is at 1,600 RPM. This can cause issues with more than just the axles. For example, at that low RPM the transmission isn't pumping fluid as quickly which can sometimes lead to more heat buildup, and, the torque converter can chatter if the springs aren't matched to the usage. In my Jeep KJ with the VM diesel I had to buy an updated torque converter for it and that was with 31" tires.

I'm sure we'll see more broken parts with the diesels when guys go with huge tires, that's just part of the game. Jeep isn't going to add even more unnecessary weight to an already overweight vehicle just to accommodate the few who will rock crawl on 37s. That's what the aftermarket is for.
 

Incommando

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If I read right they are already selling these in Wranglers and using the D30 front...
:CWL:
 

LostWoods

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The torque alone won't break these axles, it's how the truck is used. There's a triple-box Tacoma that is capable of pushing over 100,000 ft-lbs and it does fine on meaty 37's and an IFS setup that is definitely weaker than the D44's in the JT.

What will break axles is shock loading and that will give you issues regardless - the diesel will just have a little less tolerance for it. People who wheel hard do D60's on the 3.6L so I don't see why that expectation would be any less for the diesel.

I have zero doubt that the diesel will cause more broken axles but it's going to be because too many people feel like they have to take the hard line and think their right foot can make things better. If you want to abuse it, you will need to upgrade just like you do with any other Jeep.
 

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If I read right they are already selling these in Wranglers and using the D30 front...
:CWL:
All Wrangler's with the Diesel get the HD 44's. It's even the only way to get those axles in the Sahara.
 

d k

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Remember that while your TJ had tons less torque, you had to’gas it’ to get anywhere.
That sudden application of torque is much more damaging than a steady, low rpm application of 442tq of the diesel.
 

Factoid

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While you are busy fretting about mismatched components, thousands of others are out wheeling and having a blast.

I guess I just don’t understand these threads started to complain about something and ending with how it is horrible and you will not buy, even though money is not the issue. Sorry dude, money is always the issue. If you can’t afford the dues, don’t join the club. I don’t see people complaining about how Jeep uses shoddy paint ‘cause they got pin stripping on a trail or why didn’t Jeep use armor plate as my quarter panel got smashed by a big rock. This is the nature of the beast, either accept that shit breaks or don’t play.
 

d k

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I fully intend to be in that group too!

but the engineer in me is wondering why the factory put in a car engine and also, what can be done about it?



While you are busy fretting about mismatched components, thousands of others are out wheeling and having a blast.

I guess I just don’t understand these threads started to complain about something and ending with how it is horrible and you will not buy, even though money is not the issue. Sorry dude, money is always the issue. If you can’t afford the dues, don’t join the club. I don’t see people complaining about how Jeep uses shoddy paint ‘cause they got pin stripping on a trail or why didn’t Jeep use armor plate as my quarter panel got smashed by a big rock. This is the nature of the beast, either accept that shit breaks or don’t play.
 

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I fully intend to be in that group too!

but the engineer in me is wondering why the factory put in a car engine and also, what can be done about it?
Simple answer is because it's the best proven engine available for the application. The Wrangler (and now Gladiator) is no longer the unapologetic off-road machine it once was, it's a lifestyle vehicle. The majority of owners who will just lift and roll around on 35's or maybe 37's don't need a torque monster, they want fuel economy and a smoother ride. I'd be surprised if even 25% of new Wranglers sold saw real off-road use that necessitated them.

Off roaders can't be relied on to buy new and FCA doesn't care about the second sale. There's no reason to cater to that crowd when it hurts your primary market. Even the diesel isn't a nod to off-roading, it's FCA capitalizing on the old-school, older jeep owners (i.e. retirees) who still think that diesels are what they were 20 years ago. Yeah the torque is nice but the upfront costs are no longer offset by longevity and lower maintenance.
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